Man I just love this timeline. I can see good ol' Honest Abe being the elder statesman of the US for years to come.
A Glorious Union or America: the New Sparta
- Thread starter TheKnightIrish
- Start date
I have little to add other than to say how much I enjoy this timeline and looking forward to updates soon, in particular how events in Europe have diverged from OTL
Its going to bw fascinsting to watch the political realignment that is going to take place on the federal and state levels as a result of the National Union Party refusing to go quietly into thw night.
I'm suspecting they are going to primarily draw from the OTL Liberal Republicans (i.e. the moderates) as well as the non-copperhead wings of the Democracy. Add in to this, many returning soldiers who are running for office, and the more ambitious political sorts that see it in their own best interests to align themselves with a Hero.
So, what you've got is a mess - and it's going to take some time for people to sort out which camp they personally belong to.
Is there a national political consensus which has developed? I.e. a number of broad plans and policies which are agreed upon by most across the political spectrum (the fact that the NU platform is so close to the GOP's suggests that there is). That will actually help smooth things over a bit.
My guess is that, in the first few years at least, you see the NU Party basically being Kearny's personal party, with people drifting in and out of its ranks depending upon their relations with the President. As such, Kearny himself will probably do most od the work on crafting and influencing the party's identity and ideology.
It somewhat reminds of the situation directly following the election of Andrew Jackson *spits*.
By the way, what's Charles Francis Adams and his sons up to st the moment? I do love the Adams family during the 19th century
I'm suspecting they are going to primarily draw from the OTL Liberal Republicans (i.e. the moderates) as well as the non-copperhead wings of the Democracy. Add in to this, many returning soldiers who are running for office, and the more ambitious political sorts that see it in their own best interests to align themselves with a Hero.
So, what you've got is a mess - and it's going to take some time for people to sort out which camp they personally belong to.
Is there a national political consensus which has developed? I.e. a number of broad plans and policies which are agreed upon by most across the political spectrum (the fact that the NU platform is so close to the GOP's suggests that there is). That will actually help smooth things over a bit.
My guess is that, in the first few years at least, you see the NU Party basically being Kearny's personal party, with people drifting in and out of its ranks depending upon their relations with the President. As such, Kearny himself will probably do most od the work on crafting and influencing the party's identity and ideology.
It somewhat reminds of the situation directly following the election of Andrew Jackson *spits*.
By the way, what's Charles Francis Adams and his sons up to st the moment? I do love the Adams family during the 19th century
Its going to bw fascinsting to watch the political realignment that is going to take place on the federal and state levels as a result of the National Union Party refusing to go quietly into thw night.
I'm suspecting they are going to primarily draw from the OTL Liberal Republicans (i.e. the moderates) as well as the non-copperhead wings of the Democracy. Add in to this, many returning soldiers who are running for office, and the more ambitious political sorts that see it in their own best interests to align themselves with a Hero.
So, what you've got is a mess - and it's going to take some time for people to sort out which camp they personally belong to.
Is there a national political consensus which has developed? I.e. a number of broad plans and policies which are agreed upon by most across the political spectrum (the fact that the NU platform is so close to the GOP's suggests that there is). That will actually help smooth things over a bit.
My guess is that, in the first few years at least, you see the NU Party basically being Kearny's personal party, with people drifting in and out of its ranks depending upon their relations with the President. As such, Kearny himself will probably do most od the work on crafting and influencing the party's identity and ideology.
It somewhat reminds of the situation directly following the election of Andrew Jackson *spits*.
By the way, what's Charles Francis Adams and his sons up to st the moment? I do love the Adams family during the 19th century
I will map out the future of the new party system over succeeding posts. I don't want to spoil it. But as we enter the 'Imperial Presidency' you can expect some significant changes.
Charles Francis Adams has remained the ambassador to the Court of St.James however that will change as Kearny and his Secretary of State appoint their own man. However Adams will return in a form of opposition to some the developments in the US...
This paragraph stood out starkly to me. I'm certainly not going to complain about some racists getting their proper comeuppance, but this kind of policy would be all too easy to abuse. What kind of barriers are in place to arbitrary Proscription? Is there some kind of standard that has to be met, does the Office of Proscription have to prove something to a federal court and get a warrant, is there an appeals process? I can't remember precisely the earlier chapters on Proscription, but unless there's some kind of "due process" it would be pretty blatantly unconstitutional.
Aside from that, LOVED this chapter. It was fantastic to see the National Union planks. I'm really wondering when the butterflies are really going to start affecting things. I think really interesting threads of change are going to be 1: American foreign policy and 2: American social welfare. With a bigger military establishment, I can see the US being even more assertive, seeking out positions overseas in East Asia, the Caribbean, and the Pacific. This could also trigger an earlier Great Rapprochement between the US and Great Britain. Or the opposite if Great Britain sees an assertive United States as a rival...
Domestically, industrialization and urbanization trends are probably going to be relatively unaffected for the rest of the 19th century. This is the time of the Gilded Age and the Robber Barons (captains of industry if you prefer). I'm wondering how Kearny and his successor's politics and views will shape the US response. Up until the beginning of the Progressive Era, the federal government was very hands off and the results for most lower-class people was pretty awful. Average height and weight declined as urbanization increased, signifying poorer health, and lots of people lost their money due to over speculation. Not to mention the horrifying conditions in a lot of industries. The railroads were built mostly with underpaid Chinese laborers and everyone knows about Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. Fun fact! Sinclair was not attempting to achieve health reform, but welfare reform, by portraying the conditions the workers had to experience.
I'm thrilled to see how this world develops and I am HERE for it
StephenColbert27
Banned
Sinclair was actually hoping to encourage socialism. Didn't work out how he hoped!
I can see the US and UK carving out mutually acceptable spheres of influence and acting jointly on some occasions as they did in Ethiopia. The only bump in the road would be Kearny's Francophilia as the UK and France did some jostling with each other in this era.
Donald Reaver
Donor
A U.S., U.K. and France sphere of mutual acceptance would be incredibly powerful. Each powerful to act a disinterested party between disputes amongst themselves.
Kearny is much more interested in the world stage, having himself traveled widely and involved himself in wars in both Europe and Africa. There will be serious interactions with the United Kingdom, the French Second Empire, the Kingdom of Spain, the Mexican Second Empire and indeed some unexpectedly nations further afield...
Love triangles rarely work out well old man...
Germany...? Don't you mean the Germanies...?
I will deal with foreign affairs shortly...
The "Imperial Presidency" just sounds so fascinating. I'm really looking forward to how Kearny shakes things up, and how Edward Bragg influences national politics by being against some of Kearny's actions. It's nice too to see how the Proscription Bureau is already show that it is something of a downside...
Really looking forward to how the rest of the world shapes up too!
Really looking forward to how the rest of the world shapes up too!
At this point in time "Germany" is still a loose bunch of nation-states not "Germany" as we know it
Bismark is on the case though!
Randy
German unification being delayed, even for decades seems plausible.
If, as your comment implies, you're going to have it avoided entirely (and I'd count consolidation into a few medium sized states or two big ones as avoiding it) I will be very curious how the genie of nationalism is put back in the bottle.
If, as your comment implies, you're going to have it avoided entirely (and I'd count consolidation into a few medium sized states or two big ones as avoiding it) I will be very curious how the genie of nationalism is put back in the bottle.
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See the fact that he references “the Germanies” potentially as late as 1914, makes me think something goes wrong, for a given value of wrong, with German unification. Perhaps Francophile Kearny lends some measure of backing to Imperial France prior to and/or during the Franco-Prussian War?
Likely wouldn't take all that much since the Prussian's were struggling to keep the "alliance" together near the very end. Paris NOT falling for example or the Emperor escaping Sedan maybe.
Randy
It could happen earlier than that. Nappy II could get involved in the Austro Prussian difficulties. If Italy can be kept out suddenly things start to look tricky for the Prussians.