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A Glorious Union or America: the New Sparta
- Thread starter TheKnightIrish
- Start date
Given that there have been hints, unless my memory is failing me, of allowing some of the proscribed former Confederates to return in the future, I suspect that the Office of Proscription is going to be clamped down on in the near future in some manner (or at least have its limits more clearly defined). But as you say, it's a system that's fairly open to abuse. We're fast approaching an era of rapid industrialization for the country and labor activism is going to be a major source of friction in the Gilded Age or whatever it ends up getting called ITTL. I can imagine more than a few people will be finding themselves with a free ticket out of the country for such un-American behavior...
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So this is the National Union Party's platform, then. It's sort of amusing to think that we might very well be seeing a situation where the United States might be the first country in this universe to come up with some kind of universal healthcare system. Or at the very least, have it put in place for veterans, then have it later expanded to the general populace at some point down the line.
The emphasis on cosmopolitanism is interesting, however. It definitely seems like a direct attempt to siphon off support from the Republican Party by appealing to immigrants, and I suspect that the Democratic Party will ultimately adopt some sort of nativism to combat this (the South is going to need people to come in and replace those that have been proscribed... which should prove a source of drama, I imagine, when or if people who had their property taken by the Bureau of Collectors come back to find their old homes being lived in). I suspect that the plank of declaring "...its sympathy with all oppressed peoples which struggle for their rights" is something that will become a rallying cry for future foreign intervention.
Bragg being a consistent thorn in Kearny's side during his administration also seems like something that could very well make him the darling of the Democrats. A possible Bragg presidency in '72 (if Kearny's unlucky) or '76 then?
I’ll be honest, I would be very surprised if the Democrats rebound as a national force that quickly. IOTL, it took until 1884 for a Democrat to win the White House.
Aside from healthcare, another area for expansion I could see is education. IOTL, the Freedmens Bureau was heavily involved of education. I could see such a mission expanding beyond its original intent to other disadvantaged groups
Aside from healthcare, another area for expansion I could see is education. IOTL, the Freedmens Bureau was heavily involved of education. I could see such a mission expanding beyond its original intent to other disadvantaged groups
"Bismark has a plan, Bismark ALWAYS has a plan"
Link for that comment:
Randy
Have a little bit of faith, Arthur.
It is important to remember how the Bureau works though. There are many former Confederates who are judged to have legally renounced their citizenship by their act of rebellion. Some have been excluded from the country as undesirable aliens. Others remain on sufferance pending taking an oath 'renaturalising' them. If you get caught behaving like a rebel (or a Southern Democrat) before you retake your oath you will find yourself on a list for deportation. So it still has the veneer of constitutionality and legality generally...though there are Supreme Court cases on the subject which I keep meaning to address...
At this point in time "Germany" is still a loose bunch of nation-states not "Germany" as we know it
Bismark is on the case though!
Randy
He may not be the only statesman on the case though...
Some might argue that Prussia is not an entirely German nation, just as Austria has its non-German Imperial baggage...
You be quiet! I know you and I have similar interests on the Hanoverian stand against the Prussians in the Austro-Prussian War.
The position of the Bureau is referred to above. However it is clearly a device open to epic abuse...
I hadn't thought about the long term consequences of the veteran focus but that surely would be an interesting unexpected consequence...
I think I have already dropped a hint that the Democrats are going to find themselves the friend of the farmer in the not too distance future. Whether than will also extend to nativism remains to be seen (it did have a lot of strength amongst the Irish arrivals) and a lot of former nativists finished up (oddly enough) in the Republican party.
I am not sure if there were any hints of the Democrats future in my post about the Presidency nicknames:
1. The Imperial Presidency - Philip Kearny Jr;
2. The Busted Flush Presidency;
3. The Best of the Bad Men;
4. The Presidency of Anger Interrupted;
5. The Accidental Presidency;
6. The Presidency of Velvet and Iron;
7. The Hangman...
I am happy to say however that we can expect the heavy involvment of the Freedmens' Bureau in education.
So here's my bet on future presidents
1. The Imperial Presidency - Philip Kearny Jr;
2. The Busted Flush Presidency; ROUSSEAU
3. The Best of the Bad Men HOOKER
4. The Presidency of Anger Interrupted HANCOCK
5. The Accidental Presidency RODMAN
6. The Presidency of Velvet and Iron WALLACE
7. The Hangman. CUSTER
1. The Imperial Presidency - Philip Kearny Jr;
2. The Busted Flush Presidency; ROUSSEAU
3. The Best of the Bad Men HOOKER
4. The Presidency of Anger Interrupted HANCOCK
5. The Accidental Presidency RODMAN
6. The Presidency of Velvet and Iron WALLACE
7. The Hangman. CUSTER
*Fingers crossed* Please be Custer, please be Custer, please be Custer.
Alrighty, I went back and had a look through the chapters because I remembered somehting.
Unless its been retconned, Lew Wallace is the 22nd President and a "surprise".
President No.22 is "The Accidental President"
If we add terms similar to OTL:
18. The Imperial Presidency - Philip Kearny Jr; 1869-1877
19. The Busted Flush Presidency; ROUSSEAU 1877-1881
20. The Best of the Bad Men HOOKER 1881-1885
21. The Presidency of Anger Interrupted HANCOCK 1885-1886 (dies as in OTL)
22. The Accidental Presidency WALLACE 1886-1889?????
I mean, its possible/plausible that could be the plan, which makes some sense if Hancock still dies as OTL . Especially if Hooker is the "Best of the Bad Men" his term could be ridiculously corrupt and incompetant hence why the "honorable" and clean Hancock and Wallace get in.
'Unless its been retconned, Lew Wallace is the 22nd President and a "surprise".
President No.22 is "The Accidental President"
If we add terms similar to OTL:
18. The Imperial Presidency - Philip Kearny Jr; 1869-1877
19. The Busted Flush Presidency; ROUSSEAU 1877-1881
20. The Best of the Bad Men HOOKER 1881-1885
21. The Presidency of Anger Interrupted HANCOCK 1885-1886 (dies as in OTL)
22. The Accidental Presidency WALLACE 1886-1889?????"
Remember Lincoln is the 16th President so that would make Kearny the 17th President not the 18th. Following the list we have
17 The Imperial Presidency - Philip Kearny Jr;
18 The Busted Flush Presidency;
19 The Best of the Bad Men
20 The Presidency of Anger Interrupted
21 The Accidental Presidency
22 The Presidency of Velvet and Iron - Lew Wallace as per Chapter 89
7. The Hangman. CUSTER
President No.22 is "The Accidental President"
If we add terms similar to OTL:
18. The Imperial Presidency - Philip Kearny Jr; 1869-1877
19. The Busted Flush Presidency; ROUSSEAU 1877-1881
20. The Best of the Bad Men HOOKER 1881-1885
21. The Presidency of Anger Interrupted HANCOCK 1885-1886 (dies as in OTL)
22. The Accidental Presidency WALLACE 1886-1889?????"
Remember Lincoln is the 16th President so that would make Kearny the 17th President not the 18th. Following the list we have
17 The Imperial Presidency - Philip Kearny Jr;
18 The Busted Flush Presidency;
19 The Best of the Bad Men
20 The Presidency of Anger Interrupted
21 The Accidental Presidency
22 The Presidency of Velvet and Iron - Lew Wallace as per Chapter 89
7. The Hangman. CUSTER
Also OTL Hooker died in 1879 after earlier suffering a stroke. Kearny takes office with his own health problems so its plausible that he dies in his second term and is succeeded by VP Rousseau who could aptly be characterized as a "Busted Flush Presidency" and Hooker would be still be alive to be elected in 1876
So is the Accidental Presidency meant to be 22 or 21? Inquiring minds want to know.
If we're strictly going by the nicknames for each presidency, rather than who's necessarily attached to them...
Imperial Presidency - A massive expansion of the authority of the presidency is a likely outcome of this, continuing with the trend from TTL's Civil War, as is a much earlier entry of the United States into foreign adventurism and even colonialism ITTL. Given the possible hints towards an earlier rapprochement with European powers, it's also certain that many will not feel comfortable cozying up to foreign monarchies; republican pride is something deeply ingrained in many Americans.
Busted Flush - I suspect, based on the hagiography that seems to surround him by the present day ITTL, that Kearny is likely to overall be remembered as a good president, maybe even a great one. The usage of 'busted flush,' to me, suggests that someone in his administration that seems promising is likely to squander whatever political capital is left to them or is continually marred by scandal, leaving them with little recourse to continue his legacy.
Best of the Bad Men - Due to the fallout of what might be a one-term presidency, or a continuous humiliation in the headlines for eight years, we're likely to see everyone throw their hat in the ring to run for office and as the title suggests the U.S. will end up with someone who isn't great but things could've ended up much worse in hindsight.
Anger Interrupted - Rather hard to glean what might be meant by this. It could mean anger at some domestic issue - economic downturn is likely, but a war going south is a possible secondary option - that is capitalized on by some firebrand. Given their successor, however, I'm guessing that they never get to do anything and they either die from some illness in office or are assassinated.
Accidental Presidency - Someone ends up in charge who never really thought they'd land in the driver's seat. Pretty self-explanatory.
Velvet and Iron - Given the meaning of the idiom, this is likely a fairly stable presidency and might even catch foreign governments off guard in its willfulness. It isn't necessarily a rejection of the previous administration's positions; it might even be an affirmation of them, whatever they are.
Hangman - Perhaps the most mysterious of them all. While its easiest reading is that of an executioner, it doesn't have to be domestically related. Given the fact we know that at some point the U.S. gets involved in a major war that has them humiliated abroad c. the early 20th century (the conflict in China?), it might be related to the idea of effectively ordering men to their death.
Imperial Presidency - A massive expansion of the authority of the presidency is a likely outcome of this, continuing with the trend from TTL's Civil War, as is a much earlier entry of the United States into foreign adventurism and even colonialism ITTL. Given the possible hints towards an earlier rapprochement with European powers, it's also certain that many will not feel comfortable cozying up to foreign monarchies; republican pride is something deeply ingrained in many Americans.
Busted Flush - I suspect, based on the hagiography that seems to surround him by the present day ITTL, that Kearny is likely to overall be remembered as a good president, maybe even a great one. The usage of 'busted flush,' to me, suggests that someone in his administration that seems promising is likely to squander whatever political capital is left to them or is continually marred by scandal, leaving them with little recourse to continue his legacy.
Best of the Bad Men - Due to the fallout of what might be a one-term presidency, or a continuous humiliation in the headlines for eight years, we're likely to see everyone throw their hat in the ring to run for office and as the title suggests the U.S. will end up with someone who isn't great but things could've ended up much worse in hindsight.
Anger Interrupted - Rather hard to glean what might be meant by this. It could mean anger at some domestic issue - economic downturn is likely, but a war going south is a possible secondary option - that is capitalized on by some firebrand. Given their successor, however, I'm guessing that they never get to do anything and they either die from some illness in office or are assassinated.
Accidental Presidency - Someone ends up in charge who never really thought they'd land in the driver's seat. Pretty self-explanatory.
Velvet and Iron - Given the meaning of the idiom, this is likely a fairly stable presidency and might even catch foreign governments off guard in its willfulness. It isn't necessarily a rejection of the previous administration's positions; it might even be an affirmation of them, whatever they are.
Hangman - Perhaps the most mysterious of them all. While its easiest reading is that of an executioner, it doesn't have to be domestically related. Given the fact we know that at some point the U.S. gets involved in a major war that has them humiliated abroad c. the early 20th century (the conflict in China?), it might be related to the idea of effectively ordering men to their death.
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My thoughts:
Imperial Presidency - To me this means conquest. So earlier Spanish War or taking of islands in the Pacific.
Busted Flush - 4 not 5 of a kind. Other party gets a one shot president.
Best of the Bad Men - Poor choices abound for the office or the most heartless and conniving (the Best Bad Man) wins.
Anger Interrupted - I agree it's a Firebrand or Warmonger who dies (or is impeached).
Accidental Presidency - Definitely the VP, Speaker or Cabinet Member succeeds to office....Or unfaithful voters in the Electoral College??? Maybe a Dark Horse catches fire with the voters?
Hangman - Either another insurrection, massive corruption or political payback and a "Take No Prisoners" President.
Imperial Presidency - To me this means conquest. So earlier Spanish War or taking of islands in the Pacific.
Busted Flush - 4 not 5 of a kind. Other party gets a one shot president.
Best of the Bad Men - Poor choices abound for the office or the most heartless and conniving (the Best Bad Man) wins.
Anger Interrupted - I agree it's a Firebrand or Warmonger who dies (or is impeached).
Accidental Presidency - Definitely the VP, Speaker or Cabinet Member succeeds to office....Or unfaithful voters in the Electoral College??? Maybe a Dark Horse catches fire with the voters?
Hangman - Either another insurrection, massive corruption or political payback and a "Take No Prisoners" President.
1. The Imperial Presidency - Philip Kearny Jr - Kearny the Magnificent
2. The Busted Flush Presidency; Fighting Joe Hooker - see Post 89
3. The Best of the Bad Men; I'm really not sure - Israel Bull Nelson maybe
4. The Presidency of Anger Interrupted; Edward Wragg maybe (I might have him and Richardson around the wrong way)
he doesn't merit a memorial as a Democrat!
5. The Accidental Presidency; Lew Wallace
6. The Presidency of Velvet and Iron; Not sure again - maybe Robert Todd Lincoln
again no statue
7. The Hangman... Russell A. Alger: another Michigan who has practiced popular hanging in TTL
I am confident because...he has a statue!
2. The Busted Flush Presidency; Fighting Joe Hooker - see Post 89
3. The Best of the Bad Men; I'm really not sure - Israel Bull Nelson maybe
4. The Presidency of Anger Interrupted; Edward Wragg maybe (I might have him and Richardson around the wrong way)
5. The Accidental Presidency; Lew Wallace
6. The Presidency of Velvet and Iron; Not sure again - maybe Robert Todd Lincoln
7. The Hangman... Russell A. Alger: another Michigan who has practiced popular hanging in TTL
I have just been testing the Statue Theory, which I love by the way, and have discovered, sadly that it doesn't work - one of my presidents doesn't have a statue or a bust that I can find...woe woe and thrice woe.
My earnest sympathies. I wish I could find more appropriate PM statues!
It depends who you are looking for...mwhahahahahah!!!
PS. I hate Gladstone aka MOG: Murderer of Gordon...