A Britain of Panthers and Lions: House of Oldenburg Britain
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Chapter 119: Breaking The Habit
VVD0D95
Banned
Chapter 119: Breaking The Habit
June, 1706
June, 1706
“Gentlemen, we can have this discussion until we are blue in the face, it will change nothing.” Philippe said, for what he knew was not the first time. “We have tried to break through the Brussels line seven times in the past year and nothing has changed. They continue to hold, and they only grow stronger. The extra men that have come from the Empire have only bolstered them.”
“So, what do you suggest we do?” Chamilly demanded. “We cannot break position and try and change formation. We have our orders.”
“Those were old orders.” Philippe reminded the man. “The King has been apprised of the current climate and he knows about the struggles here. He agrees that things need to be changed.” The King and he had argued something fierce over this through letter. Philippe had won in the end though.
“And what do you suggest then, Your Royal Highness?” Villeroy asked. “If there is some way we can break through this deadlock then I am very much eager to hear it.” the man had lost a brother and a son during this war.
Philippe took a moment to think and then replied. “The British continue to get their lines supplied via shipments from Bruges and from Ostend. We have a direct line toward Ostend, we can send a division or perhaps two there, to try and divert attention, and whilst they are distracted we move for Bruges. And whilst the place will be heavily defended, all of their experienced corps are currently out in the field between Brussels and Alost, after our last attack.”
“We would need to keep the force of attack up at Alost to ensure they did not get suspicious.” Chamilly pointed out. “And we do not know whether Rosen has the man power for such a mission.”
“Rosen will do as he is commanded or he will lose his rank.” Philippe snapped, then he took a breath and replied in a calmer manner. “Rosen knows what his duty is, and his men know it as well.”
“And how do you know that someone such as Marlborough won’t see what we are doing from a mile away, Your Royal Highness?” Villeroy asked.
“That is why we must do something that will cause all sorts of headaches for him, and cause further distrust between the British and the Dutch.” Philippe replied, he had heard the rumours and of course their spies had reported back something similar. Tensions were running high between the Prince of Orange and the Duke of Marlborough, or was it the Prince of Wales?
Villeroy seemed to understand what he was saying. “You cannot seriously be proposing we try and capture the Prince of Wales?”
“Why not?” Philippe retorted. “Capture him and you end the threat of the British, they will have to ransom him.”
“He will not be foolish enough to allow himself to be captured.” Villeroy retorted.
Philippe smiled. “He is the heir to the throne and has proven to be a bold and capable commander. He is already a Major General, I think he would most definitely be foolish enough to try something if we dangled something before him.”
“But what would you dangle before him?” Villeroy asked.
It was Chamilly who answered. “Bruges. You want him to lead the charge toward Bruges.”
Philippe nodded. “Precisely. Bruges is the key for Britannia, take that out of the equation and they will be most definitely stuck.”
“So, dangle Bruges and the threat of its fall, hope that the Prince of Wales has enough authority to overrule Marlborough and lead the charge to retake the city, and then capture him through some form of tactical bravery?” Villeroy surmised. “A bold strategy, Your Royal Highness.”
“It is the only strategy that can work. We cannot afford more loss of life at the Brussels line.” Philippe replied. “If we remove Wales, then Britannia must sue for peace, and that leaves us with the Dutch.”
“And an ageing William of Orange.” Chamilly added.
“Precisely.” Philippe said. “So, I shall write to the King to inform him of this choice.”
Chapter 120: Birth Of The Independent
VVD0D95
Banned
Chapter 120: Birth Of The Independent
September, 1706
September, 1706
“Your Majesty, it has come to my attention that the reports from France are proving to be increasingly accurate.” Shrewsbury said, his voice grating on Anne already. “The Duke of Orleans has begun moving his troops southwards, toward the border with the Rhine, and has increasingly left the Brussels line toward Villeroy and his subordinates. This to me suggests that the King of France has changed his strategic objectives.”
Anne considered this, shared a look with George, and then replied. “And what reason would Louis have to do this? He would surely care more about Brussels, than the Rhine. After all, if he takes Brussels then he has as good as won this war.” That was what the Duke of Marlborough and James both said, which was why she had agreed to send more troops over at their request.
“Your Majesty, that was what I had thought as well, but after reviewing the intelligence, I have come to the conclusion that we have placed far too much importance on the King of France’s thoughts and too little on Orleans.” Shrewsbury replied.
“How so?” Anne asked. She had grown up hearing about Louis of France and did not expect that he would have delegated so much.
“Increasingly, per our spies, Orleans has grown in influence and stature. Despite the failures of his offensives on Brussels, he continues to demonstrate good tactical nous, to the point where it appears the King is increasingly relying on his martial ability.” Shrewsbury replied.
“So, you believe that he thinks the Rhine is a more important theatre than Brussels?” Anne asked, considering this and seeing some merits to it.
“Yes Your Majesty. He is personally leading the Fourth Corps away from the offensive in Brussels and moving toward the Rhineish front. After receiving intelligence that the Imperial army was advancing there.” Shrewsbury said.
“Your Majesty, I think that the Duke is incorrect on his assumptions.” That was John Middleton, son of the second Earl, and a very detailed and knowledgeable man. “I think that whilst it is true that the Duke of Orleans has proved himself a better judge of strategy than others in the French army, he still defers to the King’s judgement as one would expect coming from the system he does. Consequently, I think this information about moving toward the Rhine, whilst potentially true is not completely accurate.”
“What do you mean?” Anne demanded. “Do you think he is leading the attack or not?”
“I do not think he will be leading the attack, Your Majesty. Instead I think someone else will lead and they will hope that we will be distracted enough to follow.” Middleton replied.
Anne turned to Shrewsbury and asked. “And what has the Captain General had to say?” She trusted Marlborough far more than any of these buffoons, other than George of course.
Shrewsbury didn’t reply immediately, it seemed as though he was quite put off by Middleton’s words. “I think that the Captain-General is urging caution, as he is not sure quite what the plan is from the French, and as such wants nothing interfering with defending Brussels.”
“And of course, the Prince of Orange would not take kindly to losing troops from the defence of Brussels.” Middleton added, which caused them all to laugh. William was not popular here.
Weymouth, First Lord of Trade spoke then. “Your Majesty, if I might speak?” Anne gestured for him to continue. “Whilst it might seem inconvenient for all gathered here, the point is that the longer this war continues, the harder it is to maximise profit for the kingdom. Already, we are seeing a fall in investment in the city.”
“And peace would do little unless we ensured the treaty was upheld.” Anne shot back.
“I understand that Your Majesty, but the longer this war goes on and the more trade falls, the easier it is for the opposition to cause a storm.” Weymouth replied.
“What do you mean? What storm?” Anne demanded.
Weymouth pulled out a stack of papers and put them on the table before her. Anne picked one up and read the headline, and gasped. “The Independent, a paper funded by the Earl of Devonshire, the opposition’s own voice. It is getting great circulation in London as well as in the South East and in Devonshire’s constituencies. It might even be rivalling The Guardian.”
Anne read through the story on the front page, an elicit account of some affair some civil servant was having combined with how this was tied to the government, her government’s failure to deal with the war properly. She slammed it down on the table, and glared at her ministers. “Why has no one told me about this?”
There was silence, as nobody it seemed had an answer, Anne could feel the anger grow, she had been lied to, she had thought The Guardian was the dominant paper throughout the Kingdom. That nobody dared challenge her. She should have known that Devonshire would try something like this. The ungrateful swine had never forgotten his removal as Colonel of the Regiment. Eventually, Weymouth himself spoke. “Devonshire is old, Your Majesty, he is on death’s door, and his son has no interest in politics or the great game. I think we could possibly buy the paper and change directions.”
Sir Stephen Fox, her Chancellor spoke. “I would be more than happy to buy it, Your Majesty. It would change direction immediately.”
George spoke then. “Buy the Independent now and you run the risk of the opposition finally uniting. Wait until Devonshire dies, and then out bid his son.”
“What if they appoint someone new in the meantime?” Anne asked her husband.
“Then they appoint someone. Better to know the direction of the wind, before setting sail.” George replied.
Anne sighed, she knew her husband was right, even if she wanted to act now. “Very well, Weymouth, we want you to keep informed of this. Fox, we want you to ensure that The Guardian continues printing out the truth.”
“Yes Your Majesty.” They both replied.
Anne rose and said. “Until next time, my lords.” She was nervous, but she knew that that was beyond her control.
Chapter 121: Danish Questions
VVD0D95
Banned
Chapter 121: Danish Questions
November, 1706
November, 1706
“Sire, there continues to be some uncertainty on the border with Sweden over precisely what it is they are doing. Their King continues to move troops to the border, but they do nothing. They only march and pretend battle, and nothing more. There have been no skirmishes, nothing. It is quite confusing.” Count Rosenberg said.
Frederick sighed. “Clearly the young man sitting in Sweden wishes to test our resolve. He wants to know whether or not we are going to make the first move.” Frederick’s own spies had reported the conversations King Charles of Sweden had had with his wife and ministers. He knew what the man desired, and he had no desire to give it to him.
“What would you advise the soldiers on the border to do, Sire?” Rosenberg asked.
“I would advise that they do nothing for now. Merely remain at their stations until a proper time for action comes.” Frederick replied, feeling the weariness that had affected him of late coming back.
The count nodded, though he did not seem to approve of the direction. However, as always, Frederick’s brother Charles had to speak. “Your Majesty, I think that perhaps we are approaching this from the wrong angle.”
Frederick looked at the younger man and wanted to scream. Ever since he had denied his brother permission to marry that wench, the other man had done everything he could to be as aggressive and contradictory toward Frederick as possible. It was really starting to grate on him. “And why is that, Prince Charles?” Frederick replied, using the styling to remind his brother of their difference in rank.
“I think that the Swedes are going to make the first move and I think we would be foolish to let them do that.” Charles responded. As Frederick went to speak, his brother continued. “Charles of Sweden is a young man, impatient to prove his worth, and desiring nothing more than to make a statement. We all know that he wants Norway, and we cannot allow him to have it. We no longer need to worry about the Dukes of Oldenburg, but we might have to worry about what other allies he brings to the table. His wife is the daughter of the Queen of Britannia, and the French are moving their investment toward Sweden also.”
Frederick had heard this before, indeed he had even thought of it himself. “Our uncle George remains a strong advisor to the Queen of Britannia, and the French are also investing heavily in us. They will not react well to a war that would disrupt their investments. Charles of Sweden knows this, as do I.”
His brother continued though. “I do not think you quite understand me, Your Majesty.”
Before he could go on and create a scene, Frederick interrupted him. “I understand what you are saying perfectly well, however, I disagree. The matter is closed.” He stopped speaking waiting to see if his brother would break protocol and continue speaking on this matter. Charles was smarter than that however, and therefore remained quiet. Frederick changed topics then. “Now, onto the topic of our brother Vilhelm’s marriage, Rosenberg, what responses have you received?” It was important that at least one of his brothers married, and Charles refused to.
“Your Majesty, we have received favourable responses from Mecklenburg as well as from Baden-Durlach. Both are offering their daughters for Prince Vilhelm, and a sizeable dowry as well.” Rosenberg replied.
“Mecklenburg would bring us closer to Prussia, and would perhaps also ensure a closer tie to the Emperor. Durlach offers little.” Frederick replied. “Send the confirmation of a betrothal to Mecklenburg, and let us have this over and done with.”
“Yes, Sire.” Rosenberg replied.
I'm having a little bit of trouble remembering just when events started to diverge in Scandinavia. I know Denmark was able to trade Oldenburg for the Holstein-Gottorp territories, but I can't remember if there was any change in the Scanian War. I don't think so. I also can't remember if there's been any change in the raising of Brandenburg-Prussia to a kingdom under Frederick I.
The Danish-Swedish rivalry is obviously still there, but I'm not so sure anything will come of it here. While the two royal families had marriage ties IOTL before the Great Northern War, even more directly than their indirect connection through Britannia here, but this time there isn't a major international alliance forming against Sweden to encourage Denmark. Denmark's long time knife in the back, the Dukes of Holstein-Gottorp are out of their hair, but the lost provinces of Skaneland haven't been Danish for decades and were scoured years before by Charles XI. Without international aid against Sweden, I'm not so sure Denmark would go for them. In fact, attacking would potentially harm relations with Britannia. This largely fits with how King Frederick behaved here. He's not going to go on the attack. I'd imagine Danish attention is turning west. With relations good with Britannia, I'd imagine Denmark would focus more on the colonial game. East is Sweden, and west is the war in the Spanish Netherlands would give them nothing but better relations with the Dutch and British. South might be possible, but the Holy Roman Empire is messy and traditionally hasn't gone well for Denmark. The marriage to the Mecklenburgs firms up their southern flank, but that is it. Overseas is the remaining option, especially as the Dutch are currently devoting a great deal towards the ongoing war.
Sweden, meanwhile. If I'm not incorrect, I believe the Swedish have already received exemption from the Sound Dues and the Danish probably couldn't even enforce said dues with Skaneland in Swedish hands. That removes a major incentive for war between them. While Sweden of course wants Norway, it isn't necessary for ocean access and would be more for cutting down the Danish. Based on Charles XII's OTL behavior, it's clear he wants a war to earn battlefield prestige. I assume the maneuvers mentioned were basically him taunting a traditional enemy, hoping to goad them into charging. With both Sweden and Denmark tied to Britannia and reluctant to risk relations, Sweden would probably want the blame for the war to fall on Denmark. Since that hasn't happened, I assume Charles would look elsewhere. Russia is still viewed as a backwater of little interest to Charles.
So I'd say his next target would be Prussia. Assuming there weren't changes ITTL, then Frederick I got his crown in 1701. However that was done only in return for Prussian aid in the WoSS, and I'm not sure if Prussia has done so yet. Regardless, Prussia has been an enemy of Sweden multiple times in the past half century. The Second Northern War and the Scanian War, and gaining the entirety of Pomerania was a long time goal of Prussia that had led to it aiming for Swedish Pomerania in both those wars. Prussia was notably anti-French at this time so a war on Prussia would be in French interests and could allow the continuation of French subsidies to Sweden. Meanwhile unless Prussia is participating in the war against France, through its territories in Cleves, then Britannia would have little reason to interfere.
A Swedish-Prussian war at this point is a very interesting possibility. At this point the Swedish were a well formed military, but Prussia had established a standing army of 25-30,000 troops by 1688. The latter were probably slightly better off from a better foundation, while the Swedish Empire relied on foreign subsidies and tolls from its German territories. If Sweden is a brittle empire that still has a good chance to reform and stabilize, Prussia was a growing power but one that still wasn't quite on the level. Arguably, the winner of such a conflict would become TTL's Prussia (the regional military power that expanded slowly through said military power till it became great). A quick look shows the Swedes fielded 75,000 men in the Great Northern War while Prussia fielded 50,000, so the Swedes had numerical superiority still. Frederick I was also not his father in military matters, nor his son or grandson.
Sweden getting revenge for past defeats to Prussia while also kicking down a growing military power provides prestige, and there are also limited territorial goals that would really help. Sweden was reliant on toll profits from Bremen-Verden, Wismar, and the Oder to support its army. Sweden conquering Farther Pomerania would really strengthen Swedish Pomerania, and fully kick Brandenburg out of the Baltic. However this would really need them to kick Prussia's teeth in, as Pomerania was long a goal of Brandenburg so would ensure its long term enmity. Another option is taking the Memel territory from Ducal Prussia, allowing them to collect tolls on the Memel River. This too means almost certain war in the future, but would strengthen Sweden in preparation for that. Probably only possible if Poland helps Sweden, as the King in Prussia move was not popular among the Polism Sejm. Parts of Farther Pomerania would be more likely. Chopping Prussia-Brandenburg down and claiming Farther Pomerania would certainly reinforce Swedish domination of the Baltic.
A rather random note to make is that Sweden has been given time to recover from the Great Famine of 1695-1697 that very much left the Swedes weakened by the start of the Great Northern War. With a decade having passed here they are in a better position. Plagues are active in Poland-Lithuania by this point, and Prussia will be hit by 1708, Brandenburg, Pomerania, Livonia, and Estonia by 1709, and finally Finland and Sweden in 1710. It was the devastation, high taxes, and movement of people and troops during the great Northern War that really made it so devastating. Well, that and the Great Frost of 1709. If conflict can be delayed just three or four more years, a lot less people could die. Not sure Charles XII will last that long though.
..And now I;v' just written a lot on these topics when the real center of the story is England. Woops.
The Danish-Swedish rivalry is obviously still there, but I'm not so sure anything will come of it here. While the two royal families had marriage ties IOTL before the Great Northern War, even more directly than their indirect connection through Britannia here, but this time there isn't a major international alliance forming against Sweden to encourage Denmark. Denmark's long time knife in the back, the Dukes of Holstein-Gottorp are out of their hair, but the lost provinces of Skaneland haven't been Danish for decades and were scoured years before by Charles XI. Without international aid against Sweden, I'm not so sure Denmark would go for them. In fact, attacking would potentially harm relations with Britannia. This largely fits with how King Frederick behaved here. He's not going to go on the attack. I'd imagine Danish attention is turning west. With relations good with Britannia, I'd imagine Denmark would focus more on the colonial game. East is Sweden, and west is the war in the Spanish Netherlands would give them nothing but better relations with the Dutch and British. South might be possible, but the Holy Roman Empire is messy and traditionally hasn't gone well for Denmark. The marriage to the Mecklenburgs firms up their southern flank, but that is it. Overseas is the remaining option, especially as the Dutch are currently devoting a great deal towards the ongoing war.
Sweden, meanwhile. If I'm not incorrect, I believe the Swedish have already received exemption from the Sound Dues and the Danish probably couldn't even enforce said dues with Skaneland in Swedish hands. That removes a major incentive for war between them. While Sweden of course wants Norway, it isn't necessary for ocean access and would be more for cutting down the Danish. Based on Charles XII's OTL behavior, it's clear he wants a war to earn battlefield prestige. I assume the maneuvers mentioned were basically him taunting a traditional enemy, hoping to goad them into charging. With both Sweden and Denmark tied to Britannia and reluctant to risk relations, Sweden would probably want the blame for the war to fall on Denmark. Since that hasn't happened, I assume Charles would look elsewhere. Russia is still viewed as a backwater of little interest to Charles.
So I'd say his next target would be Prussia. Assuming there weren't changes ITTL, then Frederick I got his crown in 1701. However that was done only in return for Prussian aid in the WoSS, and I'm not sure if Prussia has done so yet. Regardless, Prussia has been an enemy of Sweden multiple times in the past half century. The Second Northern War and the Scanian War, and gaining the entirety of Pomerania was a long time goal of Prussia that had led to it aiming for Swedish Pomerania in both those wars. Prussia was notably anti-French at this time so a war on Prussia would be in French interests and could allow the continuation of French subsidies to Sweden. Meanwhile unless Prussia is participating in the war against France, through its territories in Cleves, then Britannia would have little reason to interfere.
A Swedish-Prussian war at this point is a very interesting possibility. At this point the Swedish were a well formed military, but Prussia had established a standing army of 25-30,000 troops by 1688. The latter were probably slightly better off from a better foundation, while the Swedish Empire relied on foreign subsidies and tolls from its German territories. If Sweden is a brittle empire that still has a good chance to reform and stabilize, Prussia was a growing power but one that still wasn't quite on the level. Arguably, the winner of such a conflict would become TTL's Prussia (the regional military power that expanded slowly through said military power till it became great). A quick look shows the Swedes fielded 75,000 men in the Great Northern War while Prussia fielded 50,000, so the Swedes had numerical superiority still. Frederick I was also not his father in military matters, nor his son or grandson.
Sweden getting revenge for past defeats to Prussia while also kicking down a growing military power provides prestige, and there are also limited territorial goals that would really help. Sweden was reliant on toll profits from Bremen-Verden, Wismar, and the Oder to support its army. Sweden conquering Farther Pomerania would really strengthen Swedish Pomerania, and fully kick Brandenburg out of the Baltic. However this would really need them to kick Prussia's teeth in, as Pomerania was long a goal of Brandenburg so would ensure its long term enmity. Another option is taking the Memel territory from Ducal Prussia, allowing them to collect tolls on the Memel River. This too means almost certain war in the future, but would strengthen Sweden in preparation for that. Probably only possible if Poland helps Sweden, as the King in Prussia move was not popular among the Polism Sejm. Parts of Farther Pomerania would be more likely. Chopping Prussia-Brandenburg down and claiming Farther Pomerania would certainly reinforce Swedish domination of the Baltic.
A rather random note to make is that Sweden has been given time to recover from the Great Famine of 1695-1697 that very much left the Swedes weakened by the start of the Great Northern War. With a decade having passed here they are in a better position. Plagues are active in Poland-Lithuania by this point, and Prussia will be hit by 1708, Brandenburg, Pomerania, Livonia, and Estonia by 1709, and finally Finland and Sweden in 1710. It was the devastation, high taxes, and movement of people and troops during the great Northern War that really made it so devastating. Well, that and the Great Frost of 1709. If conflict can be delayed just three or four more years, a lot less people could die. Not sure Charles XII will last that long though.
..And now I;v' just written a lot on these topics when the real center of the story is England. Woops.
VVD0D95
Banned
I like it, a really fascinating analysis!
On the topic of changes, you're correct Oldenburg and Holstein-Gottorp were exchanged between the two rulers. No changes in the Scanian war. In regards to Denmark looking west, do you mean getting active in the Southern Netherlands or colonially?
And agreed about Sweden, a war with Prussia over Pomerania is very likely.
On the Prussian front, I'm not sure whether Frederick I would be given the Kingly title given that it was in support of the Habsburgs in the War of the Spanish Succession, and said war didn't happen here, though I suppose he could've leveraged it in order to support the Austrians in their war against the Turks or also to aid in the fighting in the SOuthern Netherlands. Also, with the current Polish King being Joseph I's uncle, he might try to play on that to regain certain things.
I mean colonially. Fighting in the Spanish Netherlands would build up better ties with the Dutch, British, and Spanish, but would probably not actually give them any tangible rewards. Although it might be possible for Denmark to negotiate a colony from one of them in return for that aid. Or it could help in the war by taking French colonies.
Huh, I was originally thinking it was an either-or situation but actually the Danish sending troops to Brussels while its navy and more irregular soldiers go and attack French colonies isn't unlikely. The warfare between the colonial empires is something you've generally not elaborated on so far in this conflict. Yet the Treaty of Utrect IOTL cost the French Nova Scotia, Hudson Bay, and Newfoundland. So I assume there have been colonial skirmishes. That could be a goal for Denmark. French Canada only had a population of 16,000 in 1706, while Newfoundland and Arcadia had populations in the hundreds. It actually wasn't till after the WoSS that New France started to flourish. However French Louisiana might be an easier target. It was barely inhabited at all. Southern Illinois only had 2,000 settlers in 1750, and New Orleans wasn't even founded till 1718. 1700 is still early enough in the colonial game.
Not too sure there. Despite Brandenburg-Prussia rising partially with the support of outside forces as a counterbalance to the Hasburgs, at this time they actually cooperated well. Both Frederick III, the Great Elector, and King Frederick I were generally anti-France but also were very opportunistic against their neighbors. They generally went wherever the rewards were greatest, and they weren't going to pick a fight with the Hasburgs yet.
Frederick however bought his crown with 8,000 Prussian soldiers for the Hasburgs to use against the French, but he was also known for basically leasing out Prussian soldiers as mercenaries wherever. That gave the Hohenzollerns immense influence during the massive War of Spanish Succession, but less so during more limited conflicts like ITTL. I doubt Prussian soldiers would be valued against the Ottomans, especially when there seems to be an alliance between Russia, Austria, and Poland-Lithuania. One issue is that there might be less international support recognizing a King in Prussia. IOTL King Augustus of Poland, Denmark-Norway, and Russia all recognized the title near immediately in an effort to gain Prussian aid against Sweden (an effort that only actually bore fruit after Poltava destroyed the Swedes) while the Dutch and English did the same for the Prussian soldiers in the WoSS. Some of those aren't relevant in this scenario. Neither Russia nor Denmark-Norway have a reason to acknowledge another king, and the Polish Sejm has even less reason to allow the former duchy to raise itself to kingdom status.
I'd say Frederick would still wrangle the title. Everything is there, but I'd assume it would take longer and require more resources and effort on his part. He'd also achieve less international recognition early on. The Dutch and British would probably prefer Imperial or Danish aid to break the stalemate, but if that doesn't work or isn't enough they might acknowledge it in return for Prussian troop reinforcements. The Polish, especially if they are starting to resent Hasburg interference in Polish affairs, might move against him. Even work with Charles XII. So everything would just be messier compared with the cakewalk where 8,000 soldiers bought Frederick a crown, and half of Europe recognized him as such immediately in hopes he'd help them win their wars (which he never did, instead selling his troops as mercenaries, and only piling on Sweden with everyone else after Russia did the hard part). He's probably doing just about all he can to receive more acknowledgement of his title outside the Hasburgs and the German princes.
VVD0D95
Banned
A Danish presence in the new world would be fascinating, Louisiana being Danish, now that would be a game changer I think.
And agreed with regards to Prussia, I think Frederick's going to have a hard bargain. His son or grandson might succeed in getting proper recognition though. And seeing Poland allied with Sweden against Prussia would be fascinating.
Not sure how successful they'd be, the Mississippi River Basin wasn't an easy place for European settlers, but success at settler colonialism was not dependent on the population of the home nation. If Denmark focused much of its efforts on it, it could certainly do more with the territory than France ever did. France losing Louisiana could also have interesting effects on French Canada. Especially if they don't lose Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, and Hudson Bay to England. Maybe Britannia is less focused on colonial affairs here, with less internal discord from no Glorious Revolution.
His son is already alive, and while still young (18 in 1706) the Soldier King could keep Brandenburg relevant unless it is truly crushed.
It was only like half a century before that the Duchy of Prussia was a fief of the Polish Crown. There are much less tenuous claims that have been used as casus belli to start wars. Might depend on how the war against the Turks is going. The Swedes haven't been exactly allies of Poland either. If Poland can't divert enough troops to make a serious attempt at Prussia, it would probably stay out of it rather then hope Sweden doesn't take everything it can. A war where Poland takes Ducal Prussia and Sweden Pomerania would be interesting though.
A few token aspects of the Danish pov. as I see them.
The trade of Oldenburg for Holstein will likely be considered a masterstroke by later Danish Historians, simply put when the great northern war broke out, the immediate goal was to secure Gottorp-Holstein as it was a dagger in the back of any Danish war efforts towards Sweden. With this "dagger" removed Danish opportunistic expansion order will change.
So it is important to mention that I don't think Frederik IV was particular war hungry, but he did join in on the Great Northern War twice if this is opportunistic or because it is a way to improve the security of the Danish realm I'm unsure about.
But certainly of the most desired land grab for Denmark is now solely Skånelandene (Skåne, Blekinge & Halland), Sweden, however, does have a reputation so Denmark is unlikely to declare war without a coalition in its back. After this, the territories on the wishlist will be (Swedish Bremen-Verden) during the second Danish participation in the Great Northern War, Danish soldiers overran Bremen-Verden without much trouble, it was ceded to England for their participation. After that, you will likely see Rügen+Stralsund (ancient Danish claim, the area at this point still use Danish church law I believe) and then Wismar.
Now all these lands grabs are of course not something Frederik IV is gunning for, but if he is not busy elsewhere I'm quite certain he will join a coalition, which I don't think you have butterflied away?
The interesting part of the discussion about Danish participation in the Spanish Succession War is that Danish soldiers did participate.
In short: Denmark prepared for the Great Northern War by raising a relatively large force of around 40.000 (discounting garrison troops) with nearly all deployed towards Holstein-Gottorp.
Now I don't know if enough has changed, but it is likely that this force is still being prepared, with a bunch of these centered around Copenhagen. Instead of the majority in Holstein.
OTL. A Swedish-English-Dutch fleet forced the sound (The Danish Fleet is larger than the Swedish but..) and landed on Zealand forcing Denmark out of the war.
The interesting part is Frederik IV this not disarm his large army, because he wanted the ability to go to war with Sweden if an opportunity arose.
After this large part of the Danish army was made into two Auxilary corps
One in the service of the Anglo-Dutch (1701-1714). Around twelve-thousand men. fighting under Marlborough
the other one in the service of the Habsburg(1701-1709). Around ten-thousand men fighting under Eugene of Savoy in Northern Italy (and maybe Germany too), and later in Hungary.
I think it is important to note that the events that have precluded all this, is to a degree butterflied. On the other hand, the underlying conflict (Swedish supremacy) is not removed so I don't think it is unlikely for it to happen albeit different.
To put Denmark into perspective during this age, it is an absolute monarchy, which is described 100 years later at the peace of Vienna, as the most absolute monarchy in Europe.
It is heavily militarised to the same degrees as Sweden and Prussia, it is simply not remembered as such (IMO), because it does not have a great age like the latter two (Sweden during its great power time 1611-1721) and later Prussia. It is simply overshadowed.
During the Great Northern War when Denmark reentered the war in 1710, Denmark invaded Skåne with 14.000 troops, this is while the larger of the two auxiliary corps are deployed in Flanders, and I believe the Habsburg one is still returning. Sweden was able to barely match these numbers, and on the eve of the battle, the Danish commander fell ill. My point with this is that Denmark might not be a great power, but it is knee's deep into North European affairs, and some of the engines for this have been butterflied, others not!
I hope my post has shredded some light on the actor that Denmark is during this period, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it, or if you ignore it
!
The trade of Oldenburg for Holstein will likely be considered a masterstroke by later Danish Historians, simply put when the great northern war broke out, the immediate goal was to secure Gottorp-Holstein as it was a dagger in the back of any Danish war efforts towards Sweden. With this "dagger" removed Danish opportunistic expansion order will change.
So it is important to mention that I don't think Frederik IV was particular war hungry, but he did join in on the Great Northern War twice if this is opportunistic or because it is a way to improve the security of the Danish realm I'm unsure about.
But certainly of the most desired land grab for Denmark is now solely Skånelandene (Skåne, Blekinge & Halland), Sweden, however, does have a reputation so Denmark is unlikely to declare war without a coalition in its back. After this, the territories on the wishlist will be (Swedish Bremen-Verden) during the second Danish participation in the Great Northern War, Danish soldiers overran Bremen-Verden without much trouble, it was ceded to England for their participation. After that, you will likely see Rügen+Stralsund (ancient Danish claim, the area at this point still use Danish church law I believe) and then Wismar.
Now all these lands grabs are of course not something Frederik IV is gunning for, but if he is not busy elsewhere I'm quite certain he will join a coalition, which I don't think you have butterflied away?
The interesting part of the discussion about Danish participation in the Spanish Succession War is that Danish soldiers did participate.
In short: Denmark prepared for the Great Northern War by raising a relatively large force of around 40.000 (discounting garrison troops) with nearly all deployed towards Holstein-Gottorp.
Now I don't know if enough has changed, but it is likely that this force is still being prepared, with a bunch of these centered around Copenhagen. Instead of the majority in Holstein.
OTL. A Swedish-English-Dutch fleet forced the sound (The Danish Fleet is larger than the Swedish but..) and landed on Zealand forcing Denmark out of the war.
The interesting part is Frederik IV this not disarm his large army, because he wanted the ability to go to war with Sweden if an opportunity arose.
After this large part of the Danish army was made into two Auxilary corps
One in the service of the Anglo-Dutch (1701-1714). Around twelve-thousand men. fighting under Marlborough
the other one in the service of the Habsburg(1701-1709). Around ten-thousand men fighting under Eugene of Savoy in Northern Italy (and maybe Germany too), and later in Hungary.
I think it is important to note that the events that have precluded all this, is to a degree butterflied. On the other hand, the underlying conflict (Swedish supremacy) is not removed so I don't think it is unlikely for it to happen albeit different.
To put Denmark into perspective during this age, it is an absolute monarchy, which is described 100 years later at the peace of Vienna, as the most absolute monarchy in Europe.
It is heavily militarised to the same degrees as Sweden and Prussia, it is simply not remembered as such (IMO), because it does not have a great age like the latter two (Sweden during its great power time 1611-1721) and later Prussia. It is simply overshadowed.
During the Great Northern War when Denmark reentered the war in 1710, Denmark invaded Skåne with 14.000 troops, this is while the larger of the two auxiliary corps are deployed in Flanders, and I believe the Habsburg one is still returning. Sweden was able to barely match these numbers, and on the eve of the battle, the Danish commander fell ill. My point with this is that Denmark might not be a great power, but it is knee's deep into North European affairs, and some of the engines for this have been butterflied, others not!
I hope my post has shredded some light on the actor that Denmark is during this period, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it, or if you ignore it
!VVD0D95
Banned
Very true regarding Denmark and colonial efforts, as for Britannia, unsure, India's not on the cards for them as a colony, but they might push further and deeper in other areas.
And agreed, the war with Turks has currently reached a ceasefire, though whether that lasts for long remains to be seen.
VVD0D95
Banned
A few token aspects of the Danish pov. as I see them.
The trade of Oldenburg for Holstein will likely be considered a masterstroke by later Danish Historians, simply put when the great northern war broke out, the immediate goal was to secure Gottorp-Holstein as it was a dagger in the back of any Danish war efforts towards Sweden. With this "dagger" removed Danish opportunistic expansion order will change.
So it is important to mention that I don't think Frederik IV was particular war hungry, but he did join in on the Great Northern War twice if this is opportunistic or because it is a way to improve the security of the Danish realm I'm unsure about.
But certainly of the most desired land grab for Denmark is now solely Skånelandene (Skåne, Blekinge & Halland), Sweden, however, does have a reputation so Denmark is unlikely to declare war without a coalition in its back. After this, the territories on the wishlist will be (Swedish Bremen-Verden) during the second Danish participation in the Great Northern War, Danish soldiers overran Bremen-Verden without much trouble, it was ceded to England for their participation. After that, you will likely see Rügen+Stralsund (ancient Danish claim, the area at this point still use Danish church law I believe) and then Wismar.
Now all these lands grabs are of course not something Frederik IV is gunning for, but if he is not busy elsewhere I'm quite certain he will join a coalition, which I don't think you have butterflied away?
The interesting part of the discussion about Danish participation in the Spanish Succession War is that Danish soldiers did participate.
In short: Denmark prepared for the Great Northern War by raising a relatively large force of around 40.000 (discounting garrison troops) with nearly all deployed towards Holstein-Gottorp.
Now I don't know if enough has changed, but it is likely that this force is still being prepared, with a bunch of these centered around Copenhagen. Instead of the majority in Holstein.
OTL. A Swedish-English-Dutch fleet forced the sound (The Danish Fleet is larger than the Swedish but..) and landed on Zealand forcing Denmark out of the war.
The interesting part is Frederik IV this not disarm his large army, because he wanted the ability to go to war with Sweden if an opportunity arose.
After this large part of the Danish army was made into two Auxilary corps
One in the service of the Anglo-Dutch (1701-1714). Around twelve-thousand men. fighting under Marlborough
the other one in the service of the Habsburg(1701-1709). Around ten-thousand men fighting under Eugene of Savoy in Northern Italy (and maybe Germany too), and later in Hungary.
I think it is important to note that the events that have precluded all this, is to a degree butterflied. On the other hand, the underlying conflict (Swedish supremacy) is not removed so I don't think it is unlikely for it to happen albeit different.
To put Denmark into perspective during this age, it is an absolute monarchy, which is described 100 years later at the peace of Vienna, as the most absolute monarchy in Europe.
It is heavily militarised to the same degrees as Sweden and Prussia, it is simply not remembered as such (IMO), because it does not have a great age like the latter two (Sweden during its great power time 1611-1721) and later Prussia. It is simply overshadowed.
During the Great Northern War when Denmark reentered the war in 1710, Denmark invaded Skåne with 14.000 troops, this is while the larger of the two auxiliary corps are deployed in Flanders, and I believe the Habsburg one is still returning. Sweden was able to barely match these numbers, and on the eve of the battle, the Danish commander fell ill. My point with this is that Denmark might not be a great power, but it is knee's deep into North European affairs, and some of the engines for this have been butterflied, others not!
I hope my post has shredded some light on the actor that Denmark is during this period, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it, or if you ignore it
Perfect, thanks!
Chapter 122: Trouble In Delhi
VVD0D95
Banned
Chapter 122: Trouble In Delhi
January, 1707
January, 1707
Bidar kept his eyes open through sheer force. A skill he had learned during the campaigns he had fought as a young man. When he had been a boy, his father had long told him that the best generals led from the front, they hid their emotions unless absolutely necessary. This was one of those times. So much was happening, he needed to keep his wits about him. He looked at the man before him and said. “You have been tasked with ensuring that the taxes were collected from all regions Mustafa, you have not collected anything from the Afghans in the north-western frontier, nor have you collected anything from the Rajputs, why?”
Mustafa Ali, a man from a powerful family within Delhi, his uncles were advisors. He was a tall man, but a weakling. He snivelled. “Sire, the Afghans are under the influence of your cousins, they refuse to pay anything unless they get concessions. And since Your Majesty saw fit to deny those concessions, they continue to withhold their monies.”
“Are you blaming the Emperor for your failures?” Bidar’s brother Jawan snarled. Jawan had lost out on Kabul’s governance due to the actions of their cousins, and therefore remained bitter.
Mustafa looked as though he would have a bowel movement, he seemed so nervous. “No, of course not, Your Imperial Majesty. Merely that the Afghans refuse anything unless their demands are met.”
Bidar knew that these demands were actually being made by his cousins, mainly Rafi, his other cousins were not smart enough for this. “And what do they demand?”
“The removal of the Hotaks as the main tribal leaders within the region, and the removal of the four percent levy on grain. They also ask that an election be held to choose the governor, instead of a standard appointment from Delhi.” Mustafa replied, looking terrified.
“The impudence!” Jawan snarled.
Bidar laughed. “The Hotaks are our defence against the other tribes, the Abadlis are firmly under our cousin Rafi’s control. As for their other demands, they know that such a thing is not sustainable. Therefore, we shall refuse their demands.”
Mustafa swallowed. “Spit it out, Ali.” Jawan snarled.
Mustafa sighed. “Sire, this means that they will firmly align with your cousins and therefore be used for a new civil war. This is not something I think the Empire can manage.”
Jawan turned to him then and said. “Sire, give me enough time to enter the governate to raise the sources I have there, and we can remove our cousins from their positions before Eid.”
Bidar was tempted by the suggestion, but he knew that anything that aggravated the Hotaks would see the governate fall regardless, and that was not something he could afford. “No.” he said then. Before his brother could protest, he added. “Instead, you shall move to meet the Hotaks and align with them to form a host to tackle those who have sided with our cousins.”
“Sire, that would be foolish!” Jawan protested. “It will do nothing for us other than make us look weak.”
Bidar stared at his brother, and cowed him with that. Turning to Mustafa he said. “Send word to Hotak, let them know that our brother shall be approaching soon enough.” Mustafa nodded. Bidar then asked. “Now what excuse do you have for not dealing with the Marathas?” They remained a continual threat and he did not like that.
Mustafa did not speak, instead Syed Ali, who he considered nothing more than a criminal spoke. “Sire, the Marathas continue to refuse any engagement whatsoever with our representatives and as such I would deem them a liability.”
Bidar ignored what the man had said, and kept his attention fixed firmly on Mustafa. “Well?”
Mustafa looked deeply embarrassed. “Sire, it is as Syed says. They refuse to interact with Imperial governors or troops. And as such they have made their intentions clear. The Rajput states defer to them, and the southern states seem to be doing the same.”
“Then perhaps they need a lesson in sense?” Jawan ventured.
Bidar laughed. “No, our grandsire tried that multiple times, it did not work. No, we shall bring them back into the fold with a marriage.”
“A marriage? Do you really want to reward them with a marriage, the most prestigious thing that we have to offer? They are traitors!” Jawan protested.
“They are subjects who need to be led back into the fold.” Bidar replied. “They are powerful subjects, worthy of a marriage.”
“Who will you offer?” Jawan asked, clearly worried he would have to send one of his daughters to a foreign land.
Bidar smiled. “Our own son. The heir to the Peacock throne.”