2nd french revolution after CP victory at WWI

clendor

Well, the title said most of it. A shameful defeat (no US intervention scenario) to the allies of WWI (Alsace is annexed by Germany, BTW). Revolutionary forces awaken, and just like in Germany OTL. The major revolutionary powers are the Bonapertian-Fascists and the USSR-supported Communists.
Who will win? How much time it would take them? How such a revoultion will affect France's relations with its allies and colonies?
And what about after-great-war states? What revolutions and changes will affect them, and how the world will react to it?
 
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yourworstnightmare

Banned
Well the Colonial elites and the French officials and officers in the colonies would not embrace Communism, they were all of the better dead than red mentality. I doubt the native elites in the Colonists would favor Communism, since they were not really into sharing power with their subjects.
 

clendor

Well, maybe Communis, will apply only about people with French citizenship? I guess that French Communists will see their revolution as a continune to the last revolution of 1789. That Republican revolution granted all it granted only to true French. Maybe the Communit revolution of... let's say... 1929 will do so too.
And will Britain recognize this new Communist France?
 

Mikestone8

yourworstnightmare said:
Well the Colonial elites and the French officials and officers in the colonies would not embrace Communism, they were all of the better dead than red mentality. I doubt the native elites in the Colonists would favor Communism, since they were not really into sharing power with their subjects.
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And would a victorious Germany be likely to tolerate it, especally if there is already a Bolshevik Russia on her other border? Imho, this would be a recipe for German troops in Paris toot sweet (or maybe schnell).
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Mikestone8 said:
And would a victorious Germany be likely to tolerate it, especally if there is already a Bolshevik Russia on her other border? Imho, this would be a recipe for German troops in Paris toot sweet (or maybe schnell).
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A victorious Germany would have annexed several of the colonies already. I think Germany would be more worried about France going red, than crazy colonial administrators revolting. Also, even a victorious Germany would be extremely tired of war, even a Ludendorf- von Hindenburg dictatorship.
 

clendor

yourworstnightmare said:
A victorious Germany would have annexed several of the colonies already. I think Germany would be more worried about France going red, than crazy colonial administrators revolting. Also, even a victorious Germany would be extremely tired of war, even a Ludendorf- von Hindenburg dictatorship.
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Excactly. Germany would not want another war so soon, and will likely try to avoid war even later just like victorious AS (Agreement states, allies of WWI in my native language).

And anyway, to the most dire question: Will Britain and the other states of the world recognise the new Communist goveroment?
Communist goveroment... this makes me thinking... Maybe there will be Democratic communism in France? There is no precedent to say otherwise, at that time, except USSR.
 
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Uriel

As said in your last thread, I doubt, that the french colonies have the military and economic power to run an idependent state for very long.

But colonial troops could play an even larger role in an possible civil war than they did in Spain.

By the way: colonial elites had no problems embracing socialism/comunism as a means to get the europeans out in the 50s & 60s (The trick is, that you don't actually have to give power to the people).
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Uriel said:
As said in your last thread, I doubt, that the french colonies have the military and economic power to run an idependent state for very long.

But colonial troops could play an even larger role in an possible civil war than they did in Spain.

By the way: colonial elites had no problems embracing socialism/comunism as a means to get the europeans out in the 50s & 60s (The trick is, that you don't actually have to give power to the people).
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Yes, but with Paris Communist, you'd still don't get rid of the French. And that was the new educated elite. The old kings, chiefs and religous leaders would still have to be executed or banished in the name of the glorious people's revolution.
 

clendor

How about this flag:

Communist France.gif


As you see, the only changes are a swap between the red and the white strips, a small color change in the red to a more "Communist" red, and I put the Communism symbol in the middle.

I agree about the mass exiles and excecutes.

Communist France.gif
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

Donor
There is an Orleanist movement you need to look at - especially since the Orleanists can point to the fact that the monarchy was supposed to have been restored after 1870, but wasn't

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

clendor

Were the Orleanist that popular back then? The hated Germans are Monarchists, so I don't think the French-Monarchists would gain much popularity. And if they do, They would take popularity from the Bonapertian-Fascists, who are looking for a strong leader, and not from the Communists
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
clendor said:
Were the Orleanist that popular back then? The hated Germans are Monarchists, so I don't think the French-Monarchists would gain much popularity. And if they do, They would take popularity from the Bonapertian-Fascists, who are looking for a strong leader, and not from the Communists
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I'm not convinced about strong Bonapartism either (and Fascism as we know it might be butterflied away, all depend on Italy.) I think the strong right-wingers would be supporters of some kind of military government.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
clendor said:
Were the Orleanist that popular back then? The hated Germans are Monarchists, so I don't think the French-Monarchists would gain much popularity. And if they do, They would take popularity from the Bonapertian-Fascists, who are looking for a strong leader, and not from the Communists
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Not terribly, no; the main monarchist party fell under the "Republican Federation" as a subgroup, and IOTL, with the victory, the right saw a sharp rise in the parliamentary elections of 1919 anyway. There were few political monarchists left, especially after Leo XIII had steered french monarchists to republicanism. Of course a defeat in WW1 would radicalize them but it would also radicalize everyone and to some extent the victory IOTL also radicalized pretty much everyone anyway. In 1926, Pius XI had basically excommunicated the Action Française anyway.
 

clendor

yourworstnightmare said:
I'm not convinced about strong Bonapartism either (and Fascism as we know it might be butterflied away, all depend on Italy.) I think the strong right-wingers would be supporters of some kind of military government.
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So who do you think will win? I guess the Communists. Hitler pretty much won for the Fascists OTL, and remember the Germans has Alsace, which means more embittered workers and miners.
"some kind of military goverment"=Fascism, and I think there will be a Fascist Italian revolution anyway. I mean, if victor Italy had a revolution, loser france will be much more Fascist.

That creates a much more complex Political situation in europe. Instead of Communism, Democracy and Fascism, there will be all these and Monarchy.
The main struggle between Monarchy and Communism will be at the German puppets of Eastern Europe, And all will struggle to power in France and Italy.
That's an interesting world. WWII will probably come soon. Who will be at what side? I guess it will be Communism+Democracy vs. Monarchism+Fascism
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
On the other hand, with France going left, Italy might follow. Mussolini might even stay a left winger. National Syndicalist Italy would be interesting. Of course this depend on how many German and Austrian troops are stationed in Italy, and whether Germany and Austria care about the fate of Italy at all.
 

clendor

In this scenario, The Austrian empire collapses, and Germany takes the German parts:
1930eu(2).gif

This ISN'T a discussion about the map. I posted it just for you to understand the political situation.
And I don't think united Germany cares too much for Italy.

1930eu(2).gif
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Well, tbh, I think France and Italy kind of depend on each other. If France go right, Italy follows (need not be Mussolini, or Fascism though), while if France go left Italy does the same (still, National Syndicalist Italy would be awesome:D, but with USSR existing the left wingers of the world are probably leaning towards Communism).
 

clendor

So no Fascism in this TL? lol....
And still nobody of you answered my main question- will Britain (and the USA, let's say) recognise the Communist French (or Italian, whatever) goveroment? I think the French-British alliance would shake, but it would stay.

It's pretty ironic that in a timeline when Democracy loses WWI, Communism gets much stronger than OTL.
 
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