Not voting for Blue Skies in Camelot: An Alternate 60's and Beyond is also a poor decision. It's also a fantastic piece that I feel should be read as well.
2018 Turtledoves - Best Cold War to Contemporary Timeline Poll FINAL
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Not voting for Blue Skies in Camelot: An Alternate 60's and Beyond is also a poor decision. It's also a fantastic piece that I feel should be read as well.
Sabot Cat
Banned
I certainly understand trying to defend the NDCR timeline from those who say it's derivative, but you're mistaken in saying that they came out at the same time: No Southern Strategy was published June 4, 2015. New Deal Coalition Retained was first published on June 21, 2016, a year later.
Thank you so much, @TheImperialTheorist and @IntellectuallyHonestRhino!
I'm honored to have my timeline make it to the final round, and appreciate all of you who have voted for it! No matter who you vote for, remember to vote, people!
- Nixon becoming president and pushing through modest Civil Rights Laws somehow means the GOP win an overwhelming majority of black voters.
- Democrats push out President JFK [elected 1964] in favour of George Wallace.
- Jane Fonda getting executed for treason
- Nelson Mandela agrees to piecemeal reforms where apartheid mostly stays, while a lot of blacks and communists are expelled to other countries.
- Germany restores the Kaiser and goes hardline right-wing.
- Rhodesia is magically peaceful and "multiracial", but with the whites in charge.
- Park Chung-hee is President of SK, and he somehow isn't a dictator but is still v. right-wing.
- In Japan, the OTL attempter of a far-right coup, becomes PM there and everything is treated as it's better than OTL, that Japan improved under him.
I'd add that the situations in Rhodesia and South Africa, with liberation movement leaders apparently just accepting continued white rule is not only just massively historically inaccurate and misrepresentation, it's actually quite insulting to the people depicted. OTL, Nelson Mandela rejected a conditional offer of release by P.W. Botha in the mid-1980s because he'd be required to renounce political violence.
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Redcoat
Banned
Jesus Christ....I mean I read the timeline but when you spell it out like that that's pretty uhh.....
Just like with great power comes great responsibility,
Awesome work deserves awesome recognition!
Don't forget that the author of the TL was also temporarily banned over a revenge fantasy about Jane Fonda. Im pretty sure thats correct.
There are plenty of socialist wank timelines around, so I hardly think that this is valid criticism.
My post wasn't about a "Socialist Wank", thats a bit of a strawman. I have just found & also pointed out that NDCR is pretty much a rightists wet dream & highly inaccurate & to the point implausible. @Callan posted a great explanation about the TL as well.
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I meant that the point of divergence is around the same time
Which was reversed hours later by Ian for being an abuse of power. Notice that America got universal health care, a more powerful Soviet Union, powerful left wing governments, a purely left-wing political party in the US, a decision to strike sodomy laws in the US 25 years early, no dictatorship in South Korea (I'm shocked at how having Park Chung Hee as an elected President after years of center left democracy that didn't act as a dictator is a bad thing?).
It kind of is because that requires Park Chung Hee to behave in a way antithetical to what Park Chung Hee was actually like.
It's a problem that comes up with a lot of the left-wing figures in your TL; they just do things that are antithetical to their OTL beliefs and actions. It would be like writing a TL where Bill Clinton isn't a letcher. It's such a fundamental part of who they were that you're basically writing fictional characters.
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I'm sure plenty of leaders the world around would want to act like authoritarians after getting elected. The point here is that after several years of pro-Democracy presidents in SK, the limitations put onto the office prevented him from becoming a dictator without a lot of upheval which his allies decided wasn't worth the cost. How this contributes to being a "Conservative wet dream" as our "Local Marxist" friend puts it is beyond me. I would say the TL is fair and entertaining
Redcoat
Banned
That update just screamed something the author wanted to happen IRL, but I'm no judge tbf. I really like NDCR but the author obviously doesn't put plausibility into regard, which to be clear I'm fine with. It adds a bit of spice. In a way, I can almost hear the Politbrits mocking Queen Nixon and TTL's Northern Ireland. God those were dark times.
tbf it's a third party, the Dems and Reps are mostly conservative.
Well a lot of figures TTL act really different from their OTL selves, like Wallace.
I agree with @TheImperialTheorist that @President_Lincoln's TL Blue Skies in Camelot is definitely worth voting for. It's a very unique TL that does a solid job in recognizing the enormous impact of President Kennedy surviving his assassination without going into ASB levels of the direction of the nation. It's a really solid 60's TL, and I encourage people to check it out.
Go on, I'm waiting (you'll thank me later).
Go on, I'm waiting (you'll thank me later).
Again it's just in my view... that's just not what Park Chung Hee was like. There are plenty of OTL examples of authoritarian leaders whose shortcomings shine through the checks and balances of their enviornments, pushing the limits of their office and actively seeking to take them down. Look at Richard Nixon or Victor Orban. In my opinion, those figures give a good impression of what PCH would've been like in a Democratic framework.
To be honest, the biggest issue I have with your TL is its depiction of Mandela and South Africa which in my view borders on downright offensive.
You say that as if it's a defence.
Firstly, George Wallace was a craven opportunist. If it was in his nature to be someone, he'd be that someone. My depiction of him was accurate.
There's no reason to say Chung Hee didn't.
I explained this intensely at the time. OTL Mandela upon getting power wanted for there to be a "Rainbow Democracy." However, ITTL by that time the White Minority regime was more powerful due to a lack of foreign sanctions and the armed resistance was taken over by Focoist communism. Mandela felt that he'd just be trading one evil force for another, and so when the South African government seemed willing to buck its reactionary elements to change - albeit a bit gradually - he grudgingly accepted. In the 1980s, the living standard for black South Africans increased exponentially with the new programme.
BTW, on Africa, I'm getting flak for crafting realistic peaceful solutions (more or less) while NSS doesn't for doing either something similar (Rhodesia) or making things far worse than OTL (South Africa, Angola, Botswana, Mozambique). I'm not attacking NSS, just pointing out the hypocrisy
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