The Fire Never Dies: Labor's Star Ascendant
- Thread starter Meshakhad
- Start date
-
- Tags
- iww socialist america
Damn, the use of chemical weapons is certainly going to be something opponents of the socialist government consistently refer to in their criticisms.
Not as much as you might think. The White government certainly will, but foreign governments generally won't, as all the major powers involved in World War I used chemical weapons themselves.
Well civil wars are always going to be nasty. Given that many minorities and immigrants likely support or sympathize with the socialists there probably is full ethnic cleansing in parts like the black belt or west coast with lots of asians.
There is ongoing ethnic cleansing in the South (although it's largely concentrated in areas where blacks are a minority).
56. The Klan Empowered
…Contrary to popular history, Wilson was actually reluctant to formally employ the Ku Klux Klan. They offended his pseudo-progressive sensibilities, not to mention his position as a defender of the existing order. However, the growing awareness that the Whites were outnumbered (although it was unclear how much of their population the Reds could actually mobilize) necessitated working with the Klan…
…In their infamous meeting on June 10, Simmons initially proposed that the KKK take charge of internal security in White territory. While he likely exaggerated the danger posed by Red guerillas, many of whom were black, the threat was real. In particular, the Southern rail network and telegraph system was under constant assault, making it difficult for the Whites to raise new armies in the South while also requiring them to keep significant forces back from the front to serve as internal security. However, Wilson was unwilling to give Simmons that much power. He was more concerned with the threat posed by the Red Army, and he had more confidence in the existing security apparatus. Wilson instead proposed that the KKK would focus on recruitment for the Army, with troops raised by the Klan entering the existing command structure. Simmons was not satisfied with being a mere recruiter…
…Unfortunately, the two men reached a compromise. The Klan would be in charge of organizing entire new units, with senior Klan leaders given military rank. Simmons, now a major general, would take command of the Southeastern Department. His primary duty would be recruitment and training, but he would also be able to carry out security operations as necessary to protect his forces. This meant that he could use his troops for such operations but would not have direct authority over state or local police forces. In practice, however, Simmons’ position as head of the Klan meant he usually got them to do what he wanted…
- From White Robes, Black Hearts by Condoleeza Rice
…In their infamous meeting on June 10, Simmons initially proposed that the KKK take charge of internal security in White territory. While he likely exaggerated the danger posed by Red guerillas, many of whom were black, the threat was real. In particular, the Southern rail network and telegraph system was under constant assault, making it difficult for the Whites to raise new armies in the South while also requiring them to keep significant forces back from the front to serve as internal security. However, Wilson was unwilling to give Simmons that much power. He was more concerned with the threat posed by the Red Army, and he had more confidence in the existing security apparatus. Wilson instead proposed that the KKK would focus on recruitment for the Army, with troops raised by the Klan entering the existing command structure. Simmons was not satisfied with being a mere recruiter…
…Unfortunately, the two men reached a compromise. The Klan would be in charge of organizing entire new units, with senior Klan leaders given military rank. Simmons, now a major general, would take command of the Southeastern Department. His primary duty would be recruitment and training, but he would also be able to carry out security operations as necessary to protect his forces. This meant that he could use his troops for such operations but would not have direct authority over state or local police forces. In practice, however, Simmons’ position as head of the Klan meant he usually got them to do what he wanted…
- From White Robes, Black Hearts by Condoleeza Rice
dentista campora
Banned
The most powerful man in america is the sherriff, and by now they're all in the klan.
He was in command of a Klan battalion on the western flank of the White forces at the Battle of Greencastle. When the Army of Chicago began their barrage, Stephenson was eviscerated by a shell fragment.
Jeez, the klan is really going to put the white in white terror, aren’t they?
Speaking of, is there even going to be much of a red terror here? Afaik the reason that happened in Russia was because they were consciously emulating the reign of terror in france, but American revolutionaries have their own revolutionary history that they'd like to draw on. And while anticapitalist demonstrations and terrorizing individual capitalists isn't a great look, its a far cry from state organized political repression and terrorism
Speaking of, is there even going to be much of a red terror here? Afaik the reason that happened in Russia was because they were consciously emulating the reign of terror in france, but American revolutionaries have their own revolutionary history that they'd like to draw on. And while anticapitalist demonstrations and terrorizing individual capitalists isn't a great look, its a far cry from state organized political repression and terrorism
There probably is since not everyone who opposes the new government will be able or willing to leave. Not to mention that could probably happen due to those who are more ideologically extreme as well as people who might want to take revenge for what happened in the white terror.
They might outdo their Russian counterparts. Not to mention Simmons is already drawing up plans for what he wants to do after the war. Hmm... that gives me an idea...
Pretty much. Given American history, the Reds here will look to the War of Independence and the Civil War as their models. The worst we might see is something like the March To The Sea.
Not everyone who opposes the new government will be targeted. In many cases, the Reds will be satisfied with seizing the property of the wealthy, forcing them to become proletariat or flee into exile. There are a lot of former businessmen and investors living in their summer homes on Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket.
Avenging the White Terror will be bloodier, but the KKK provides a rather convenient focus. For all extents and purposes, the Second Klan will be exterminated, most of them dying in battle. There will also be a series of postwar trials, focusing on the White government (or what is left of it).
Probably way worse. I'm not sure we'd reach Nazi Germany levels (Simmons would probably settle for expelling the Jews and Catholics), but it would be a nightmarish regime.
57. American Order
…In American Order, celebrated alternate history author Newt Gingrich offers a terrifying image of what America might have become had the Revolution failed…
…The alternate war – known as the Second American Civil War – is not actually covered. What we do see and hear from the main characters is that the Red armies never managed to link up, and that the war ended in 1919 with a bloody White victory, for which the Ku Klux Klan took credit. The novel actually begins with the infamous leader of the Klan, William Joseph Simmons, winning the 1920 presidential election. Simmons pushes through a horrifying reactionary program, with entire ethnic groups labeled as “subversive” and stripped of their citizenship…
…The cast is diverse, from a black widow in the South struggling to keep her family alive, to a young lesbian couple in Utah desperately scheming to escape the United States. The central figure, however, is Reverend Leonard Pillar, a Baptist preacher from Maryland. Pillar starts out as a fervent believer in Simmons, having worn white robes during the war, but gradually has a change of heart, independently inventing his own version of liberation theology…
- From The Daily Worker Book Review, June 6, 2004
…The alternate war – known as the Second American Civil War – is not actually covered. What we do see and hear from the main characters is that the Red armies never managed to link up, and that the war ended in 1919 with a bloody White victory, for which the Ku Klux Klan took credit. The novel actually begins with the infamous leader of the Klan, William Joseph Simmons, winning the 1920 presidential election. Simmons pushes through a horrifying reactionary program, with entire ethnic groups labeled as “subversive” and stripped of their citizenship…
…The cast is diverse, from a black widow in the South struggling to keep her family alive, to a young lesbian couple in Utah desperately scheming to escape the United States. The central figure, however, is Reverend Leonard Pillar, a Baptist preacher from Maryland. Pillar starts out as a fervent believer in Simmons, having worn white robes during the war, but gradually has a change of heart, independently inventing his own version of liberation theology…
- From The Daily Worker Book Review, June 6, 2004
SuperZtar64
Banned
Boy do I have news for you.
Wikiwand - Newt Gingrich
Newton Leroy Gingrich is an American politician and author who served as the 50th speaker of the United States House of Representatives from 1995 to 1999. A member of the Republican Party, he was the U.S. representative for Georgia's 6th congressional district serving north Atlanta and nearby...
www.wikiwand.com
Huh, today I learned. Somehow that’s even weirder!Boy do I have news for you.
View attachment 753043
Wikiwand - Newt Gingrich
Newton Leroy Gingrich is an American politician and author who served as the 50th speaker of the United States House of Representatives from 1995 to 1999. A member of the Republican Party, he was the U.S. representative for Georgia's 6th congressional district serving north Atlanta and nearby...
As others have noted, Gingrich has written alternate history IOTL. ITTL, he never went into politics and is indeed the best-known alternate history writer. Althistoria.net's annual awards are the Newt Awards.
Turtledove is still writing alternate history, but more of the ASB variety in the same vein as Guns of the South and Worldwar.