Is there a way that the US could be dominated by railways rather than interstates? Always wondered if that was possible and how railway dominance over interstates could have affected U.S. history.
AH Challenge: US dominated by rail rather than interstates?
- Thread starter sampleswift
- Start date
Oh. Thanks. I thought interstates doomed rail. Turns out it was airplanes more. Thanks
Vaporized
Banned
Eisenhower dies of a heart attack in 1955 and is succeeded by Richard Nixon. Walt Disney decides to enter politics after the opening of Disneyland. He receives the Republican nomination and wins. During his administration he encourages the construction of nuclear power plants for green energy instead of fossil fuels. He ignores the car manufacturer and fossil fuel lobby and decides cities would need massive systems of interurban street cars instead of passenger cars. Large electric systems of rail transportation connect suburbs to the cities. Freight rail is given the incentive to use electric transportation as well on a larger network.
Passenger rail service between metropolitan areas across the nation will decrease, but commuter transportation increases and remains steadfast the rest of the century.
Passenger rail service between metropolitan areas across the nation will decrease, but commuter transportation increases and remains steadfast the rest of the century.
Some ideas for my own ALT history
By 1951, the President Eisenhower pass on Congress the American Transport Act, to upgrade and modernize american transportation infrasctructure and a way coordinate the postwar growth of the road, rail and air transportation system and create a multimodal system. The Act make the creation of a more trunk higway system and local road developements, new higher speed mainlines without railroad crossings and speed service, electrification projects and upgrade of existing main routes, network of regional air and airships terminals for the national transportation network on major cities, upgrade of interurbans to rapid transit subways as way to attend the new boom population and suburbs or creation of entire new metro systems and expand the exists one.
In 1953, works begin in upgrade the entire northeastern corridor and the built of the newly-four track Hudson Tunnels and Boston North-South link and a way to permit double-deck trainsets as electrification of entire corridor. Together if this, all sinalization and tracks are now permited to 210 kph speeds. This is all make for creation of the first super express american trainset, the “Superliner” by Pennsylvania Railroad, that enter in operation in 1956.
On Rapid transit, during all 50s and 60s, the cities of New York, Boston and Chicago upgrade they "old style" subways and expand in much way, and built of new rapid transit systems begin on D.C., Cincinnati, Detroit, Atlanta, Denver, Seattle, San Francisco and Miami. Los Angeles upgrade they massive interurban Pacific Electric system to a rapid transit lines and use of new streamliners EMU built by St. Louis Car Company and Budd.
Construction together of Interstate Trunk Highways are the new "Mainlines" railroads, link the main cities and industrial areas, entire electrificated, and if transporation hubs on newly-built Airports as LAX, Chicago O´Hare and New York City, if Union Stations inside of these. To operate these high speed lines if 200 kph, the American Government and Railroads create in 1961 the Amtrak, focus to operate this new high speed and intercity services. Train models as the XG-100 built by ALCO/Budd and the Superliner-II double-deck built by GE became the common model on these routes. Some trains even have coaches that permit transport cars and trucks on them.
Traditional mainlines are upgrade and focus more on freight service, and much of these lines in both cases became electrificated as New York Central, Baltimore & Ohio, P.R.R., Southern, Illinois Central, D&RGW, Milwaukee Road and Southern Pacific. This occur thanks to cheap energy provide by newly nuclear power plants built during the 60s. Common models became the GE E-44, EPH-60, EF-4, E5AC and E60 and EP-70 during late 50s up 60s.
New York City subway pass to a massive upgrade during the 1958 - 1964, know as "Program for Action", that built more than 80 miles of new tracks, rebuilt of mostly old stations and renewal of entire fleet by new trainsets made by Budd and GE, as well improve and modernize the Brooklin streetcars service. (ALT, NYC Subway as well mostly of rapid transit never came to a shutdown and gritty image and graffitti never occurs). In 1975, works begin on Phase I of New York Express Rail, similar to BART of San Francisco, these system would be link JFK, Manhattan if a stop on second level of Pennsylvania Station (never-demolished) and New Jersey.
By 1964 up 1980, railroad traditional passenger service view a massive decline, but the Amtrak Superliners and the Streamliners trains from roads as Union Pacific or PRR still continue to see a great use, for both intercity of a luxury-cruise by the tracks. Introduce in 1968, the Auto-Train became a common thing as people could be ride on luxury trainsets and use they cars during holidays or coast-to-coast.
In 1968, after the merger of ACL and Southern in Atlantic Southern, they became the first road to introduce Turbotrains on US, inspired on services that begin occur in France and Germany at that period. Routes from Miami to NYC and New Orleans became common use of them, and later expand to be used on dense areas of Pennsylvania Pacific.
By 1972, the Oil Crisis made streetcars make a comeback, in form of newly light-rail lines. American medium and large cities have a integrated transportation system that use streetcars, commuter rail, subway, high speed rail and buses for low denses areas up railroads terminals.
Would be add another ideas later.
By 1951, the President Eisenhower pass on Congress the American Transport Act, to upgrade and modernize american transportation infrasctructure and a way coordinate the postwar growth of the road, rail and air transportation system and create a multimodal system. The Act make the creation of a more trunk higway system and local road developements, new higher speed mainlines without railroad crossings and speed service, electrification projects and upgrade of existing main routes, network of regional air and airships terminals for the national transportation network on major cities, upgrade of interurbans to rapid transit subways as way to attend the new boom population and suburbs or creation of entire new metro systems and expand the exists one.
In 1953, works begin in upgrade the entire northeastern corridor and the built of the newly-four track Hudson Tunnels and Boston North-South link and a way to permit double-deck trainsets as electrification of entire corridor. Together if this, all sinalization and tracks are now permited to 210 kph speeds. This is all make for creation of the first super express american trainset, the “Superliner” by Pennsylvania Railroad, that enter in operation in 1956.
On Rapid transit, during all 50s and 60s, the cities of New York, Boston and Chicago upgrade they "old style" subways and expand in much way, and built of new rapid transit systems begin on D.C., Cincinnati, Detroit, Atlanta, Denver, Seattle, San Francisco and Miami. Los Angeles upgrade they massive interurban Pacific Electric system to a rapid transit lines and use of new streamliners EMU built by St. Louis Car Company and Budd.
Construction together of Interstate Trunk Highways are the new "Mainlines" railroads, link the main cities and industrial areas, entire electrificated, and if transporation hubs on newly-built Airports as LAX, Chicago O´Hare and New York City, if Union Stations inside of these. To operate these high speed lines if 200 kph, the American Government and Railroads create in 1961 the Amtrak, focus to operate this new high speed and intercity services. Train models as the XG-100 built by ALCO/Budd and the Superliner-II double-deck built by GE became the common model on these routes. Some trains even have coaches that permit transport cars and trucks on them.
Traditional mainlines are upgrade and focus more on freight service, and much of these lines in both cases became electrificated as New York Central, Baltimore & Ohio, P.R.R., Southern, Illinois Central, D&RGW, Milwaukee Road and Southern Pacific. This occur thanks to cheap energy provide by newly nuclear power plants built during the 60s. Common models became the GE E-44, EPH-60, EF-4, E5AC and E60 and EP-70 during late 50s up 60s.
New York City subway pass to a massive upgrade during the 1958 - 1964, know as "Program for Action", that built more than 80 miles of new tracks, rebuilt of mostly old stations and renewal of entire fleet by new trainsets made by Budd and GE, as well improve and modernize the Brooklin streetcars service. (ALT, NYC Subway as well mostly of rapid transit never came to a shutdown and gritty image and graffitti never occurs). In 1975, works begin on Phase I of New York Express Rail, similar to BART of San Francisco, these system would be link JFK, Manhattan if a stop on second level of Pennsylvania Station (never-demolished) and New Jersey.
By 1964 up 1980, railroad traditional passenger service view a massive decline, but the Amtrak Superliners and the Streamliners trains from roads as Union Pacific or PRR still continue to see a great use, for both intercity of a luxury-cruise by the tracks. Introduce in 1968, the Auto-Train became a common thing as people could be ride on luxury trainsets and use they cars during holidays or coast-to-coast.
In 1968, after the merger of ACL and Southern in Atlantic Southern, they became the first road to introduce Turbotrains on US, inspired on services that begin occur in France and Germany at that period. Routes from Miami to NYC and New Orleans became common use of them, and later expand to be used on dense areas of Pennsylvania Pacific.
By 1972, the Oil Crisis made streetcars make a comeback, in form of newly light-rail lines. American medium and large cities have a integrated transportation system that use streetcars, commuter rail, subway, high speed rail and buses for low denses areas up railroads terminals.
Would be add another ideas later.
In our time, the head of Japan Rail understated the cost of High Speed Rail by 50%. When they ran out of money the Head of JR simply resigned and the country had to stump up the rest of the cost as they had already heavily invested in the first half of the project.
Kaze
Banned
IRL - Rail dominated the country before aircraft and the car.
There are cities in the west that would never existed / or never flourished without the rail-road head. Case in point - Topeka, Kansas. The "city" did not really exist as a functioning entity (yes, it existed as part of the Oregon Trail and part of a military base - but it was nothing more than a few shacks living off that largess) until the Santa-Fe Rail-road came in. Then everything changed -> Topeka boomed into a commercial head of the region.
Then along came the car...
Then along came the airplane...
Then the nails came into the coffin. Fortunately, Topeka had moved on to other industries...
There are cities in the west that would never existed / or never flourished without the rail-road head. Case in point - Topeka, Kansas. The "city" did not really exist as a functioning entity (yes, it existed as part of the Oregon Trail and part of a military base - but it was nothing more than a few shacks living off that largess) until the Santa-Fe Rail-road came in. Then everything changed -> Topeka boomed into a commercial head of the region.
Then along came the car...
Then along came the airplane...
Then the nails came into the coffin. Fortunately, Topeka had moved on to other industries...
To keep rail dominant for freight, you just need someone other than Dwight Eisenhower to be President in the 1950s - the interstate system was something of a pet project of his, and a more conservative Republican (maybe Taft wins the nomination, dies early in his term, and is succeeded by someone like Bricker or Howard Buffett) wouldn't have been willing to fund it. In this case, rail would have remained the most economic way to move freight around and you wouldn't see the shrinkage of the national rail network that you saw IOTL in the later 20th century. However, air travel would still undercut passenger rail on time, and the railways would have been glad to cut their passenger service (passenger trains always had lower profit margins that the equivalent freight trains would, and the railroads only ran them because the government required them to) as much as the government would let them. A series of high-profile plane crashes could delay the dominance of air travel somewhat, but you're not going to see a big national passenger rail system by the year 2000 unless you can somehow prevent the development of commercial aviation.
marathag
Banned
US is pretty consistently at the top of the list for Freight-miles moved for the past century or so.
Moving freight by rail is great, except for the last mile, excepting bulk cargos where terminals are there to unload. That's why REA went tits up, when UPS and FedEx was taking off. People didn't want to drive to the Depot when UPS would drop it off at your house
Rail trackage started to decline in 1913. Just too many rail lines going to the same hub cities.
Consolidation allowed the Class 1 operators to get the best routes, and abandon old lines that had more curves and grades
Dominated? I don't think that's possible (or desirable); even the most rail-heavy European and Asian countries aren't dominated by railways- they play a much larger role there, but they don't dominate.
In terms of passengers, there are many areas in the US which have a enough people traveling between them, with enough of them not carrying much cargo, for a high-speed rail line to be viable (as they are in Europe). But that leaves plenty of areas and passengers still using highways.
In terms of freight, they could carry more if they have a better system to coordinate loading to/from trucks (like air freight does) for the first and last mile- then they could take on more long-distance freight. But that still leaves the last mile, shorter routes, and some freight which does not use rails for other reasons.
Those two are as much as I can think of, but that wouldn't make rail dominate- just take a bigger role alongside highways and aircraft.
In the future, at some point the 3 problems with vactrains will probably be solved, and then they will become viable in long-distance routes against aircraft, but even then there are large infrastructure costs so they wouldn't dominate- they would only take much of the heavily used routes and the less-used ones would be left to aircraft.
Months ago, several threads on this site addressed this issue. Once jet air travel came along, long distance passenger rail travel was destined to drop. How could rails have remained part of the passenger travel network? Have rail links directly to the airports to move people the shorter distances to major air hubs that everybody drives.
Where is rail service densest? Chicago. Where is one of the busiest airports in the US? Chicago. The notion of moving Union Station to O'Hare might sound laughable, but if air-rail interconnection became common in the sixties, passenger rail service may have survived. Maybe then, the US Postal Service would not have abandoned the railroads.
Where is rail service densest? Chicago. Where is one of the busiest airports in the US? Chicago. The notion of moving Union Station to O'Hare might sound laughable, but if air-rail interconnection became common in the sixties, passenger rail service may have survived. Maybe then, the US Postal Service would not have abandoned the railroads.
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Dominated i can´t think so, but have a better and more use of railroads is perfect plausible. No enter on cliches of HSR only viable NY - LA or Passenger Trains never survive pos-50s, it´s perfect common have some mainlines on mostly dense areas as Chicago - Milwaukee, D.C. - Boston, L.A. - San Francisco or Portland - Vancouver, to have electrificated or use Turbo Trains up 160 or 200 kph by 1970. Passenger trains to work on US don´t need to be long-distance cross-country, but in a more regional focus, is perfect possible have a serie of these corridors ala NEC use electric trainsets or units similar to Siemens Brightliner, to make a better intercity network, together if a more focus on built a integrated and planned public transportation system that use subways, commuter trains, light-rail and buses. One key factor, would be built newly lines for use only for passenger service, and freight trains run on other ones. Introduction of ATC, in-cab signall and electrification are vital to have a safe and modern train service.
marathag
Banned
The Pennsy GG-1 were rated for 125mph, introduced in 1934. They ran much slower, due to first limits on the trainset and then later to track conditions.
At the end of their career after Amtrak got their act back together, could pull Metroliners over 100mph over the NEC
Their big downside was they used 400 volt AC commutator traction motors, and were fed by 11,000vac 25hz from the catenary lines, using an onboard transformer to reduce the voltage.
Really Old School.
At the end of their career after Amtrak got their act back together, could pull Metroliners over 100mph over the NEC
Their big downside was they used 400 volt AC commutator traction motors, and were fed by 11,000vac 25hz from the catenary lines, using an onboard transformer to reduce the voltage.
Really Old School.
Might FDR have improved the railway network in the 1930s partly about the new deal and partly to improve preparations for the risk or war
To retain parts of a fifties-style passenger rail market, you would need multiple POD’s.
- Environmental and health awareness prevents the marketing of leaded gasoline, so the performance of automobiles is inherently lower.
- The Interstate system is never built. Four-lane highways serve high traffic areas. Turnpikes give sporadic coverage to high traffic corridors.
- Airports in major cities are built with connections to the rail network. Bookings and schedules integrate air connections with shorter-range rail connections.
- People in the fifties were accustomed to sleeper cars and overnight rail service. Suppose the pricing of air travel encourages more people to use overnight rail and save a hotel night.
- Different levels of federal regulation of interstate transportation.