WI:Anne Boleyn dies 1532.

What about Henry FitzRoy as spare option? He was bastard, so there is no chance he could sit on the throne himself, but he could marry girl with Plantagenet blood-and their potential son would not be bastard.

If FitzRoy cannot sit on the throne, his heirs are not eligible either, so I'm not sure what you are going for with this.
 
If FitzRoy cannot sit on the throne, his heirs are not eligible either, so I'm not sure what you are going for with this.
He could inherit right to the throne after his mother, not father, being also biological male-line grandson of H8. Say FitzRoy marries daughter of older (sis of H8) Mary Tudor
 
Mary Tudor said to tell you: "That is NOT happening. I am not marrying any daughter of mine to the BASTARD son of my father. They are treaty bait and will unite England with foreign lands."
 
Mary Tudor said to tell you: "That is NOT happening. I am not marrying any daughter of mine to the BASTARD son of my father. They are treaty bait and will unite England with foreign lands."
Considering the fact that Mary Tudor, sister of H8 died in 1533 I'd say she would have nothing to say.
 
Just realized you meant Mary, the French Queen, wife of Suffolk. Maybe after she dies, Brandon might go for it, he was ambitious. But it means squat until after Princess Mary Tudor, daughter of H8 dies, because she's ahead of any of the Brandons/Brandon offspring. With Anne dying in 1532, Mary (daughter) might get married and pop out her own heirs to the throne.....
 
Just realized you meant Mary, the French Queen, wife of Suffolk. Maybe after she dies, Brandon might go for it, he was ambitious. But it means squat until after Princess Mary Tudor, daughter of H8 dies, because she's ahead of any of the Brandons/Brandon offspring. With Anne dying in 1532, Mary (daughter) might get married and pop out her own heirs to the throne.....
I mentioned it as spare option-Henry has only one daughter, if she dies his bloodline is likely doomed, so better have option "B".
 
Okay, here's one for everyone's entertainment: Thomas Culpeper (he of Catherine Howard's dreams), supposedly born in 1514 (give or take a year) and supposedly the second brother of that name - who, according to geni, was born in.......1470, with the same mother and father. For those of you paying attention, that's a 44 year gap. The Culpeper/Colepeper/Culpepper family tree has completely omitted the c. 1514 Thomas. I discovered this when I needed Culpeper for a possible plotline.......and was trying to figure out how much older the Culpeper in Cromwell's service was from his 'little' brother.......
 
With the gracious permission of Wildcard (I know, get back to my other TLs):


Anne Boleyn Dies 1532


Late July 1532

Princess Mary read the letter before her in equal parts amazement and disbelief. She looked up at the Duke of Suffolk, the bearer of the letter.

“Is this true, she’s dead?” she asked, she couldn’t help herself. It was too good to be true.

Suffolk nodded. “And your father wants you at court. If I were you, your grace, I would go in mourning.”

“Mourning, I’d rather wear –“

“Perhaps white mourning, as the French do, she was, after all, very fond of things French.”

“What happened?”

“Poison is suspected by your father and he’s trying to decide if she was killed deliberately or if he was the intended target.”

“But what happened?” Mary pressed. Seeing Suffolk shift from foot to foot, she said, “Please, be seated.” She looked at her ladies. “Bring him some wine, and something to eat, he must be hungry.” The youngest curtsied and left the room as Suffolk sat down. “What happened?” she repeated to him.

“It was the last stop of the summer progress, the Earl of Northumberland’s place; there was a dinner and one of the dishes was mushrooms in sauce. It was between the King and the Lady Anne, she ate from it first, taking three and declaring the sauce perfect for them. The King ate one or two, then stepped away from the table as a messenger had arrived from the Duke of Norfolk on a matter the King had set for him; since the King was not at table, the next course was not served and the Lady Anne ate the rest of the mushrooms, perhaps four or five more.” He took the glass of wine handed to him by the lady-in-waiting, nodded, and took a drink. “Later in the night the Lady Anne was taken ill, she lingered in pain, able to keep nothing down for over a day and died the second day after eating the mushrooms. The King and others were ill as well, which is why there is a question; but your father did not eat as much as she, so he recovered.”

“And he believes it was deliberate?”

“The Earl once was pledged to the Lady Anne; his marriage is not happy. He has been taken to the tower, along with the ones who selected the mushrooms and prepared them.” A servant appeared with a plate of bread, cheese, and cold meat. Suffolk nodded his thanks and looked at the Princess. “Will you share with me?”

She shook her head, her expression remote. “I have always believed that God would show my father his error, but I never dreamed that this judgment would be visited upon her. How is my father?”

“He, like some of the others who only ate one or two pieces, is well now; Lady Rochford is said to have lost the child she was carrying. I was never ill, but the Earl himself was; I don’t think it was deliberate. My own cook refuses mushrooms because it’s hard to tell the delicious from the dangerous.” He took a bite of cheese. “His Majesty believes Percy poisoned himself to detract from the attempt on his life; that he wanted Anne for himself and thought to annul his unhappy marriage and wed her.”

“You think it was not the judgment of God?” The Princess’ tone made it clear that she did.

Suffolk shrugged. “I told you what I thought; the woman who picked them was doing it by herself for the first time – the one who usually went with her was busy preparing for the arrival of the King. Whether God used her hands for his purpose is for a priest to decide, not me.” He returned to eating, pouring himself more wine from the bottle the lady had brought.

Mary rose and motioned for him to remain seated when he began to rise. “I will prepare for leaving, when do we return to court?”

“When you are ready, the King will not arrive until the end of the week, even if they travelled as proposed before I left them. And my advice, even though you have not asked it, is that you coming in mourning,” he reminded. “Your father will think well of you if you do not remind him you were no friend to Lady Anne.”

Mary nodded. “Mourning, French mourning, I will be able to tell you on the morrow when we will be ready.” She turned and left the room before he could respond with anything but a nod of acknowledgement. The ladies followed her out, whispering furiously among themselves.
 
Still pondering that and discussing with Wildcard. I think leaving Mary legitimate as the product of a 'good faith' marriage will make the annulment easier with Katherine being past the time of women, so to speak. It's a more 'legitimate' reason for an annulment than "I've changed my mind about the validity of the first Papal Dispensation."

What do you think, Blue?
 
Still pondering that and discussing with Wildcard. I think leaving Mary legitimate as the product of a 'good faith' marriage will make the annulment easier with Katherine being past the time of women, so to speak. It's a more 'legitimate' reason for an annulment than "I've changed my mind about the validity of the first Papal Dispensation."

What do you think, Blue?

I think that's the best play, and only one Henry really has at this point.
 
Trying to decide who gets the honor (how many Englishmen does it take to change H8's mind?) of planting the bug in H8 about leaving Mary legitimate.....and who will convince Katherine of Aragon it's best for her daughter?
 
Trying to decide who gets the honor (how many Englishmen does it take to change H8's mind?) of planting the bug in H8 about leaving Mary legitimate.....and who will convince Katherine of Aragon it's best for her daughter?

Suffolk or Norfolk perhaps for Henry.

As to Katherine, I don't know. She's not going to go down without a fight. She wants the whole hog - what's best for her daughter AND being Henry's lawful wife. Henry won't give her the second (and in her eyes, more important) one, so I would predict some serious tension between mother and daughter if Mary gets welcomed back while Mum gets left out in the cold. Sure, Mary might press Henry to reconcile with Katherine, but Henry will delay/dither/prevaricate about it, until he doesn't have to anymore (cause Kate's out the picture).
 
1 August 1532

Henry Percy, 6th Earl of Northumberland, looked around his well-furnished Tower room. He’d been questioned twice by Thomas Cromwell, who urged him to admit his sin and beg the King for mercy. Percy had declined; he had no sin to confess. That he had been ill as well meant nothing to the King, who thought that Percy coveted Anne Boleyn for himself after Cardinal Wolsey had broken the pair up a decade earlier because of Anne’s proposed betrothal to James Butler. Percy no longer felt the longing for her that had haunted him until marriage to Mary Talbot had killed most of his feelings for anything and left him depressed. He knew most of the kitchen staff were here and were probably being tortured; who knew what they would say under duress.

Cromwell had told him that the Lady Anne was being buried at the family home in Hever. Percy wanted to write a letter telling the Earl of Wiltshire how sorry he was for their loss and that he’d have rather died than have this upon him, but realized how it would be received and did not. He asked for a quill, ink and paper on which to write his will – hoping that it would be honored and knowing that it depended completely upon the whim of Henry VIII. The requested items lay untouched on the table, Percy couldn’t bring himself to do it; it was admission that all this was really happening.
 
10 August 1532

The Duke of Suffolk escorted Princess Mary to her father. She was a vision in silver and white, face downcast and devoid of expression. She gave a deep curtsy to her father, who sat impassively on his throne and remained there, as Suffolk did in his bow, until the King motioned at them.

“You wear French mourning?” Henry asked.

Mary nodded solemnly. “I understood she was as French as she was English and that was one of the qualities you treasured; I hope I have not offended you, my father.”

Henry shook his head slowly. “She would have been pleased.” He glanced at Suffolk. “The trial for Northumberland is on Monday, the 12th. You will be there.” Suffolk bowed again and was motioned away as Mary was motioned forward. Mary reached his throne and curtsied again. Henry held out his hand and she rose. “You will have to be hostess, we cannot have a court without at least a Princess to rule the ladies.” It was an attempt at a joke that fell flat. King Henry VIII was still stunned by the events of a fortnight past.

Suffolk entered his rooms to find Norfolk there with a bottle of wine. “Welcome to my rooms,” he said with his easy grace, smiling at the older man as if he’d been expecting to find him.

“You’re to be on the jury with me, are you not?” Norfolk began pouring for both of them.

“Where’s William?” Suffolk asked, referring to the page who worked for him.

“Sent him off, thought we should talk.”

“Then you’re going to help with my boots?” Both men laughed, although it was hollow.

“Northumberland had better write that will,” Norfolk said when Suffolk sat down.

Suffolk snorted. “As if the king will honor it.”

“He will, to show that he’s just,” Norfolk drained his glass and refilled it. “What do we do? Wiltshire will try to milk this, but he’s only got the one daughter left and she’s already had a bastard by the king. If it had been a boy, the king might look at her again, but it was a girl; I don’t think the Boleyns will rise unless George can keep up with his majesty.”

“Boleyn will make sure he does,” Suffolk sipped at his drink. There was a knock at the door, then it opened and Thomas Cromwell entered.

“Here you are, my lords, I was hoping to join you in discussing the trial on Monday, so we won’t have to discuss such matters on the Lord’s Day.” He crossed over to the table, but there was no third chair or glass. “Shall we go to my office?” Neither Duke moved.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top