WI:Anne Boleyn dies 1532.

desmirelle

11 August – 7 September 1532

The King motioned for both Suffolk and Norfolk to accompany him into his private stall before the service began.

“Charles, did Mary, did she acknowledge that her mother and I were never married legally?” He asked Suffolk without preamble. Brandon’s surprise showed on his face.

“Sire, she was worried about you and about whether or not her mourning would be appropriate; she had little funds and the white was cheaper, so I told her French mourning would be acceptable to the Lady Anne. The subject of her mother and you ne’er came up.”

The King sighed. “If she would but admit that….” He let the sentence trail off. Suffolk and Norfolk eyes met, this had been one of the things discussed after Cromwell’s dismissal the night before.

Norfolk took the lead. “Your Majesty, you plan to wed again, not soon, nor do you have a maiden in mind, but you will have a son to follow you, no?”

“Of course, I am man, just like you and Charles, here.”

“Then you can afford to be generous, as you will choose who Princes Mary weds: agree that the Princess is legitimate, as she would be if she were a subject. You and Katherine wed in good faith, so like any good Christians, your children are legitimate. Your son will displace her in the succession and you will write the contract for Mary’s marriage.” Suffolk pointed out. “The Qu- Princess of Spain will have less room to complain in that case. And what Mary thinks of the legitimacy of the marriage will be negated, she is a woman and likely to take another woman’s side. Few were like the Lady Anne.” Inwardly, he was grateful that, he hadn’t been a fan of the aggressive daughter of Thomas Boleyn. “Why don’t I have my wife visit her and see what comes of that?”

The King nodded absently. “Why couldn’t he just let her go? Why do you think Northumberland poisoned me?”

“Jealousy?” Both men spoke at the same time, but only Norfolk continued speaking. “I’ve heard the man’s wife lived with her father and they were not happy. Perhaps the thought of his former love happy was more than he could bear.”

The priest began the reading and all three fell silent.



The Duchess of Suffolk was almost always considered the “French Queen” from her short, unhappy time as the wife of Louis XII. She invited Queen Katherine to join her at her home, citing her own growing illness – the “Tudor curse” as she phrased it. Katherine arrived at the end of August, happy to see her friend and sister by marriage. She was not as happy to hear what Mary had to say.

“You, like me, are growing older. If Henry will allow that your daughter with him will be the first among his daughters and legitimate, married and dowered as a princess, how can you refuse to withdraw, citing only your inability to have children now and ignoring his complaint about his brother. We know the truth; that Arthur was not ready to be a husband, that Father had no business sending him into Wales with his weak lungs and constitution.”

“But I love him.”

Mary smiled, then began to cough. It took her several minutes to be able to speak again. “You have always been holier than Henry. Now you will be the prayer warrior who keeps him safe from the likes of women like Lady Anne Boleyn.” Her emphasis on the word ‘Lady’ told the Queen what she thought of the late, lamented (by Henry) former lady-in-waiting to Katherine. “He will do this with or without your cooperation; and he’s already passed the submission of the clergy. To keep the Mother Church in England, I think you should retire because the time of women has passed you and your husband wishes a son to ensure the safety of the realm. You and I know that Mary can hold England, but Henry is stubborn and that woman convinced him otherwise.”
 

desmirelle

November 1532

Pope Clement VII received a revised request from King Henry VIII of England: he still wanted an annulment, but allowed that he had wed Katherine of Aragon in good faith, and he alone in the marriage felt the uncleanness of it; but that their daughter should not suffer the taint of bastardy because of his and Katherine’s error. Katherine was past the time of women and he worried for his realm without a son to follow him – he was going to ensure that Mary wed well and would be able to govern as her grandmother Queen Isabella I of Castile should the Lord decide, but he needed to do all he could to ensure the realm’s security and he felt that what was required was what England always had: a King. He requested an annulment on Katherine’s grand climacteric and his need for a son. He vowed that Princess Mary would always rank ahead of any other daughters, but only be supplanted by a legitimate son.

At the moment Clement was reading the request (or, rather, having it read to him), Queen Katherine of England was praying that her husband’s latest attempt to nullify their marriage came to the same end as his first attempt. She spent all of her waking time praying, sewing altar cloths, ensuring her fidelity to the Mother Church was never in question and showing that she was as she ever had been. Her husband refused to visit her, but had allowed their daughter to visit her at the end of her visit with the Suffolks. She was still Queen in name, but her daughter was the first lady of the realm as far as Henry was concerned; Katherine was treated as if she were a ghost, an unwanted memory.
 
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desmirelle

Feast of the Epiphany, 1533

It was a present from Hell. The Pope, after considering everything, granted an annulment to the English king on the grounds that he was still young enough to sire a son, but his queen was not. His daughter with Katherine of Aragon was pronounced legitimate and heiress to Henry VIII’s throne bar the birth of a son conceived and born in a lawful marriage. But the annulment was granted.

The Hell for Henry was the timing. Anne was dead, he would now be forced to select among women he didn’t want to bear a son. His best friend, Brandon, kept telling him time would change his mind, but he had doubts. Anne was….perfect. He looked at the letter the Pope had included, urging him to be very careful of wedding Mary to a foreign prince with a kingdom coming. Henry needed no such advice. Until there was a son, Mary was the heiress. If only Anne….

For Katherine, the Hell was that the Pope had decided against her, the daughter of the Catholic Kings. She had come to Henry pure and was cast aside, not only for his lust (Anne Boleyn, with her pretended public chastity), but for his pride (he could not admit that he was wrong). A personal letter from His Holiness urging her to retire to a convent and continue to pray for Henry, Mary and the kingdom did nothing to take the sting out of what had happened to her. The only good thing was that Mary was not deemed a bastard, which Henry had insisted she was while he was using Arthur as a club to demand the annulment. The Pope ignored the question of Arthur and had used her ageing and nature of women against her. At least that whore Anne would not be made Queen.
 

Francisco Cojuanco

This is going to be an utter clusterfuck on the Continent. Remember, annulments aren't infallible, either in our day or then, and while most European powers will go along to get along, a lot of continental princes will be reluctant to provide a wife for the legally now ever-bachelor Henry. Not to mention that if Mary returns to court, count on her to sabotage anything beyond hanky-panky.

As for Katherine, I think you capture her well. She us probably seething right now. IIRC she was convinced that if she was just allowed to see the King in his bedroom, that she had ways of getting him back, wink wink, nudge nudge!

Then there is the whole submission issue. The result is better than OTL diplomatically, but that's a pretty low bar!
 

desmirelle

Henry will have a bevy of daughters of ambitious courtiers who, having seen it almost work, will try it themselves. But, on the Continent, the experience of Queens retiring because of lack of children/sons is not unknown and now that the lack of a son is the reason Henry got rid of his wife OFFICIALLY, the royalty and nobility can offer daughters/sisters with a 'good conscience'. Remember, he never married Anne, never beheaded her and Jane Seymour isn't even in his sights......he can be blamed for bad reasoning on his first request for an annulment, but with the second request he's got anyone with a throne going, I understand.

Thanks for the kudo on Katherine. I was hoping for a little of her own pride to show through......and her anger that the Pope didn't declare her a virgin at the time of her marriage to Henry.
 

desmirelle

February 1533

Thomas Percy, 7th Earl of Northumberland only by the graciousness of King Henry VIII, who had allowed the sixth Earl to renounce his title in favor of his brother before the trial was looking at the accounts and shaking his head. Harry had been a lousy keeper of the family legacy. (The trial had been held, not as originally scheduled on 12 August 1532, but three months later. Henry VIII feared looking as if he had not considered the matter thoroughly before ordering it – to no avail, there were broadsheets everywhere praising or denouncing Henry Percy for attempting to murder a tyrant who had stolen his betrothed; accusing the King of killing Anne to spite the Earl after tiring of her; accusing Thomas – who hadn’t been there – of poisoning the king’s mistress by mistake. Everyone including the Queen apparently wanted Lady Anne Boleyn dead, if you read the broadsheets; and Anne deserved her fate and was an innocent victim as well.) Right now, Thomas would have liked to have killed Harry himself; apparently his older brother had all but given up some profitable tracts of land.

The broadsheets infuriated the King; the author of only one had been found and his shop seized and the man awaited trial for treason for declaring His Majesty should have been the one to die, as he had set aside a pious woman for a harlot. It wasn’t much, but the man would suffer the full traitor’s death for it. Princess Mary made a point of not reading them; she saw no reason in them but agreed that the man who printed her father should die was a traitor. She was hoping that the ‘suggestions’ of the Dukes of Norfolk and Suffolk (and Suffolk’s wife, her namesake aunt) that Henry spend this ‘time of recovery’ finding his daughter a suitable husband. It would give the heir presumptive (as her father corrected Norfolk when he called the princess the heir apparent) something to discuss during her summer visit with her mother, scheduled for Henry’s summer progress.
 

Jan Olbracht

For Mary he should choose candidate that would not bound Tudors to either Valois or Habsburg camp, allowing Henry to switch sides freely.
For Henry... In 1532 most European kings have daughters who are to young or already married, or propably to exotic for Henry-like Hedwig Jagiellon, born in 1513, married IOTL in 1535 to elector of Brandenburg.
Marie de Bourbon is also possible.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_of_Bourbon
or her sister Margueritte.
 
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Kellan Sullivan

desmirelle said:
Now I've written myself into two problems.....who does Henry go for and who does he chose for his daughter in 1533?
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If the duc d'Orléans is still free, why not him. I would imagine Anne's love of all things French is still there, plus it'll piss of Katherine. The duque of Beja if Henry goes Habsburg, or maybe Prince Hans of Denmark (nephew of Karl V)? None of the three have a crown coming (in theory), Hans is not even allowed in his own country. So he can be "domesticated" for Mary and they can live in London (until/if) a son is born to Mary.

A domestic candidate for Mary in either of her cousins - the king of Scots (bleh) or the earl of Lincoln (all hail the house of Brandon!).

My favourites are Hans and Lincoln
 

Jan Olbracht

Beja is more "neutral" than Orleans, he would not tie England to either French or Imperial-Spanish camp. And Hans likely means bad relations with Denmark.
 

desmirelle

Okay, anyone with a crown in a foreign country is NOT going to be on Henry's 'wish list', so Jamie can go to his French lassie. Given his paranoia, I don't see him joining Mary with even his bestie's son, since that would make another potential "Roses" situation. (But it's okay for Henry to do this, he's king....) Duc d'Orleans' father has already accepted an offer from the Pope for Catherine de Medici. And Henry's not officially looking at this point, Francis probably thinks Henry will make Mary a nun like her mother at this point.

I hadn't thought about Hans. Have to look into why he was thrown out.

I like Beja because OTL he never wed. (Which led, eventually and in part, to the Portuguese Succession Crisis.) That means I don't butterfly anyone and I'm all for minimal butterflies.
 

Wildcard F. Kennedy

desmirelle said:
Now I've written myself into two problems.....who does Henry go for and who does he chose for his daughter in 1533?
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As for Henry himself. Perhaps the Lady Mary Howard. It's still early enough where the idea for her to marry Fitzroy hasn't been floated, and now won't thanks to Anne's death. She would certainly rank high enough in the nobility for such a match. She's young, presumably fertile, and is like to give the king many children, complications not withstanding.
 

Kellan Sullivan

desmirelle said:
Uh, Hans died in 1532. By the time Henry starts thinking seriously about Mary's marriage, it's the middle of 1533.
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My bad. Thought it was '33. But IIRC, it was something ridiculous like pneumonia. HRE Karl V was quite fond of the boy, writing to the Queen of Hungary, "he was the dearest boy I knew. And I suffered his death as if he was my true child. Because I considered him as this, and he was already grown and in deep intimacy with me...but now it pains me much that I lost him while he was here [Regensburg] with me. The little brat is gone where he is certainly better than us".

And in 1533, when Frederik I died, the people argued for almost a year over whether to crown HIS son, or restore Christian II.

Svetonius21 said:
Beja is more "neutral" than Orleans, he would not tie England to either French or Imperial-Spanish camp. And Hans likely means bad relations with Denmark.
Click to expand...

There was conflict between England, Scotland and Denmark-Norway over trade with Iceland that was settled by treaty in 1515. But relations only improved with the marriage of Anne of Denmark and James VI because Denmark NEEDED allies against Sweden. Sweden might not be big and scary in 1532/33, but Denmark-England could certainly want a mutual agreement (Drnmark gets English soldiers/money while England gets trading rights with Iceland).
 

desmirelle

As soon as Henry VIII gets the annulment, Cromwell and everyone else will be looking for a new Queen. Cromwell will be looking for someone well-disposed to reform, while others will be looking for a nice Roman Catholic girl.

Henry's going to bury his grief in following the search for a proper husband for Mary at this point, so he will likely take mistresses, although Lady Mary Howard (while in Princess Mary's retinue) will not be one of them. She, like Jane Seymour and one or two others, will hold out for the crown, like Anne.

As soon as Mary's marital contract is settled, though, he'll be full-on looking himself.
 

desmirelle

Marie de Bourbon died in 1538, does anyone know what she died of? I know Jamie passed her over for Princess Madeline, and then Marie de Guise OTL.
 

desmirelle

April 1533

Cromwell was not happy: all of the candidates for the hand of Princess Mary were Roman Catholics. Henry had dismissed out of hand Cromwell’s suggestion that the Princess wed within the realm – as her father had proposed to do, saying it would make too many either jealous or ambitious or both. Francis was eager to offer a groom: his eldest son was two years Mary’s junior and the current Dauphin. The younger Francis and the Princess seemed to be cut of a cloth, both more serious than frivolous and studious. The serious problem with that match was that Henry wasn’t going to let Mary out of England until he had a son; whether or not Francis would allow the Dauphin to spend a few years in England was a dubious prospect. Francis had been quick to point out that a treaty between France and Scotland (under the “Auld Alliance”) bound the 20-year-old Scottish King to wed a French Princess. Cromwell wondered if that was good place, although England would have to propose it; since King Henry was still angry at the elder sister he considered a royal disgrace, Cromwell doubted if anything would come of it. The Hapsburgs had no suitable candidates, for which Cromwell was glad; but King John III of Portugal offered his brother Luis, Duke of Beja. Beja was a decade older than the Princess, still a Portuguese Infante, but far enough back in the succession to avoid a problem that both the Dauphin and the Scottish King presented. With a large sigh, Cromwell refilled his glass of wine and began to go over the potential candidates (in which, he included the Scottish King, Francis’ claim notwithstanding) once more. The King and the privy council were going to want to an assessment of each before they put their own opinions on the table.
 
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