The Union Forever: A TL

[Zaqwer]

What's gong on in the other independent Indian states Kashmir and Sikkim? Also is Tibet still allied with the IEF or have they moved back toward the British camp? Same question for Afghanistan.

Really good update I could easily see China entering the war when they feel Japan has over extended itself and try a quick strike at Hainan or Taiwan. Persia probably won't enter the war unless the corporatists in Baluchistan manage to take over, thereby threatening Persia enough that they may feel they need to enter the war now rather than be taken out by India at a later date.

Venezuela is just crazy to think that the LAR will just sit back while they give oil to the Compact or the Japanese send over advanced missiles. The US and their allies will do everything in they can to stop another South American dictator from building up military power before invading other nations. (Side note: Can Bolivia and Peru join the LAR now that they have stable democratic governments?)

 

[Zaqwer]

Am I correct in thinking that the Virgin Islands are not currently part of the US?

I think that at a minimum St. Thomas and St. John (not necessarily St. Croix, which could be owned by Denmark or whomever) should be part of the United States.

In 1867, the Danish agreed to sell St. Thomas and St. John Islands for US$7,500,000, a large part of why the treaty was never ratified IOTL was the ongoing political feud between Congress and President Andrew Johnson (which would be butterflied away with Lincoln serving out 2 terms).

You could say that Congress wouldn't purchase the islands due to the storms that hit the place, but I think its more likely than not that the purchase would have gone through given that Lincoln is president rather than Johnson in 1867.

Very interesting Reagent, I wasn't tracking this 1867 offer. Does anybody else want to weigh in on this?

Yeah give St. Thomas and St. John to the US. They can be part of Puerto Rico, while Denmark still controls St. Croix.

 

[ZincOxide]

Nice write-up

Interesting how you've basically smushed together the OTL economic crash of the 1930s with the war of the 1940s. On the one hand, the two occurring so close to one another will cancel each other out somewhat, but on the other, may make people less willing to think of war as the remedy to economic problems.

PS. "oil prices exasperating the economic situation" - you mean 'exacerbate'.

 

[jeckl]

Nice update.

Will be interesting to see what happens with Persia and China.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Well now, this is going south quickly.

Indeed it is.

 

[Mac Gregor]

World war! World war! One that would not be based in Europe!

We will have to see. Although easily the largest war since the Great War, few consider it currently to be a world war.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Good to see what the rest of the world thinks of the recent dustup. I'm rather skeptical of the notion that the USA will be getting directly involved given how it hasn't directly affected them...yet. And of course, Venezuela has to act the moronic clown in the whole affair, can't say I'm all that surprised . But hey, at least the Commonwealth can hope to court Persia and China to get into the fight on their side if they play their cards right, on top of Portugal's help (symbolic thus far, that is). Nice update!

Thanks FleetMac!

 

[Mac Gregor]

So, Persia and China are just waiting for an opportunity, Siam wants to help but is too weak at this point to jump in. The IEF and Indonesia are trying to stay out, but they might not have a choice. Baluchistan wants no part, and Germany will ignore it and hopefully for once not be involved in a world war.

I can see Venezuela doing something dumb. Maybe declaring war so as to attempt to take Commonwealth territory in the Caribbean? If the Compact manages a decisive naval victory, Commonwealth ships would be forced east... That would not end up well as Venezuela would most likely end up attacking somebody (accidental or not) that is US aligned.

Also, if Japan looks east, would they attempt to raid the Canadian coastline or attack Vancouver Island? I doubt that the latter would occur as the resources are needed elsewhere, but a quick raid to attack military targets and naval bases to try and effectively knock Canada out of the war? I don't know how much support they've given yet, and they would be a low priority compared to the Aussies, Kiwis, and South Africans.

It really depends on how the war turns. If the land battles end and resistance on mainland India is routed, that might turn the public sentiment to peace, at least a little. Unless the Compact manages to win a major victory, though, I can't imagine them going far out of their way to attack other targets and risk provoking the US. They'll focus on British possessions in the far east until then, and both sides will remain locked in a stalemate.

...Although, what are the chances of Britain staging a Doolittle type raid on the home islands? A successful attack would work wonders on morale, and with an unoccupied and friendly China to help recover men and material that survive... Might be interesting to see if they can pull this off.

Interesting points and questions. To answer a few of them..

Japan is considering a raid on Canada's Pacific Coast. Japanese Military leaders are currently weighing whether it is worth the risk of possibly provoking the United States.

The Commonwealth is currently in no position to attack the Japanese Home Islands.

 

[Mac Gregor]

What's gong on in the other independent Indian states Kashmir and Sikkim? Also is Tibet still allied with the IEF or have they moved back toward the British camp? Same question for Afghanistan.

Really good update I could easily see China entering the war when they feel Japan has over extended itself and try a quick strike at Hainan or Taiwan. Persia probably won't enter the war unless the corporatists in Baluchistan manage to take over, thereby threatening Persia enough that they may feel they need to enter the war now rather than be taken out by India at a later date.

Venezuela is just crazy to think that the LAR will just sit back while they give oil to the Compact or the Japanese send over advanced missiles. The US and their allies will do everything in they can to stop another South American dictator from building up military power before invading other nations. (Side note: Can Bolivia and Peru join the LAR now that they have stable democratic governments?)

Kashmir, Sikkim, Nepal, and Bhutan are currently doing their absolute best to stay neutral.

Bolivia and Peru's application to join the LAR are currently under review.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Yeah give St. Thomas and St. John to the US. They can be part of Puerto Rico, while Denmark still controls St. Croix.

St. Croix could probably become a constituent kingdom of the Danish Realm

St. Thomas, St. John, and St. Croix are still part of the Danish West Indies. They are one of Denmark's oversea territories along with Greenland and the Faroe Islands. In recent years their have been growing calls for more autonomy or even to sell them to the United States or Britain. The Kingdom of Iceland is in personal union with Denmark but controls its own domestic affairs.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Nice write-up

Interesting how you've basically smushed together the OTL economic crash of the 1930s with the war of the 1940s. On the one hand, the two occurring so close to one another will cancel each other out somewhat, but on the other, may make people less willing to think of war as the remedy to economic problems.

PS. "oil prices exasperating the economic situation" - you mean 'exacerbate'.

Thanks! And indeed, I did mean exacerbate.

 

[Van555]

Will you be able to restore the images to the earlier parts of the timeline.

 

[metastasis_d]

Interesting points and questions. To answer a few of them..

Japan is considering a raid on Canada's Pacific Coast. Japanese Military leaders are currently weighing whether it is worth the risk of possibly provoking the United States.

The Commonwealth is currently in no position to attack the Japanese Home Islands.

They definitely don't want to give the US economic interest in declaring war; if shipping on the US western coast feels threatened, they may do that.

 

[Luminous]

They definitely don't want to give the US economic interest in declaring war; if shipping on the US western coast feels threatened, they may do that.

That, or kill US civilians whom happen to be in Canada at the time. Either would do the trick.

I imagine that combatant countries are prohibited from using the canals. If one side is and the other isn't (more likely to be Britain that's allowed access) wouldn't there be submarines lurking just on the other side to torpedo them in the bottleneck? Britain doesn't have bases nearby to defend, and without nearby countries allowing them to base troops and hardware, there's little they could do to prevent it. There's a potential Lusitania incident right there.

As for the Suez, India certainly would be trying to get Egypt/Greater Syria/Turkey perhaps to attack and take the canal. Even if it's not a permanent takeover, it could delay commonwealth shipping by days, if not weeks. It'd open up another front for the Commonwealth to consider, and their resources are stretched as is.

Of course, if the Suez is closed down, there's also another economic interest for declaring war for any of the neutral blocs, at least to various degrees. Might be interesting if the Turin Pact joins in.

 

[Pokemon Master]

Will this timeline have an analog to "We Didn't Start the Fire"?

 

[Mac Gregor]

They definitely don't want to give the US economic interest in declaring war; if shipping on the US western coast feels threatened, they may do that.

That, or kill US civilians whom happen to be in Canada at the time. Either would do the trick.

I imagine that combatant countries are prohibited from using the canals. If one side is and the other isn't (more likely to be Britain that's allowed access) wouldn't there be submarines lurking just on the other side to torpedo them in the bottleneck? Britain doesn't have bases nearby to defend, and without nearby countries allowing them to base troops and hardware, there's little they could do to prevent it. There's a potential Lusitania incident right there.

As for the Suez, India certainly would be trying to get Egypt/Greater Syria/Turkey perhaps to attack and take the canal. Even if it's not a permanent takeover, it could delay commonwealth shipping by days, if not weeks. It'd open up another front for the Commonwealth to consider, and their resources are stretched as is.

Of course, if the Suez is closed down, there's also another economic interest for declaring war for any of the neutral blocs, at least to various degrees. Might be interesting if the Turin Pact joins in.

Excellent points. This is precisely the discussion that Japanese and Indian leaders are having over how far they can go before other powers will join in. Currently, the plan is to drive Commonwealth forces from the Indian subcontinent, Malaya, and Papua by February of 1977 and then sue for peace before other nations join the fight.

 

[Mac Gregor]

Will this timeline have an analog to "We Didn't Start the Fire"?

If it doesn't it should. Perhaps a grind band comes out with a version. Any suggestions for a name?

 

[metastasis_d]

Excellent points. This is precisely the discussion that Japanese and Indian leaders are having over how far they can go before other powers will join in. Currently, the plan is to drive Commonwealth forces from the Indian subcontinent, Malaya, and Papua by February of 1977 and then sue for peace before other nations join the fight.

I didn't realize or notice that there was fighting going on in Papua. I assume it's primarily Japanese units fighting there?

 

[Beedok]

Does Canada have access to American pacific ports? It's just we don't have very many of our own, so sending supplies that way would be a bit of a bottleneck.

Also, forgive if I missed this, but how to the populations of the combattants stack up vs. OTL?

 

[ZincOxide]

Does Canada have access to American pacific ports? It's just we don't have very many of our own, so sending supplies that way would be a bit of a bottleneck.

Also, forgive if I missed this, but how to the populations of the combattants stack up vs. OTL?

Yeah. EVen ITTL the major ports would likely be Vancouver and Prince Rupert. British Columbia is rather mountainous and this poses a continuing obstacle to a high level of development along the coast.

Conversely, from a military POV this is a nightmare for coast patrol. An enemy vessel could drop spies at any unguarded point along the coast, and once they find a logging road they can get almost anywhere in the province (a lot of people don't realize just how extensive that network is; in some cases you can actually get between major towns using JUST those back-road networks).