That Wacky Redhead

[unclepatrick]

Even accepting that Chan has a better career, Why would the Bond Producers let him choreograph the film? Chan not going to have that advance a career. At best we move up his first success one or two years, but he still would be choreographing film till the 1980's.

Please do not confuse My criticism over this point as a criticism for the whole time line. I enjoy this timeline a lot and it inspired me to start my own time line.
I just don't see Bond producer letting a unknown actor act as his own Choreographer.
I can see how Chan could get a better career earlier. OTL, Chan in 1976, does a film where the Producer tries to make him into the next Bruce Lee. It is a total disaster. Since Lee not dead in this timeline, the producer does a different type of film. Something like Snake in Eagle Shadow. If it a success, then he could do 3-5 similar films between 1976 and 1978, when He would be cast for the Bond Film.
Big Question is does Chan do Drunken Master? This was the first film that Chan did that mix the Comedy and the Action. It would be the film that would change how Chan would view Films from then on and he would more and more developed his style mixing the two elements from that point on.

If he does not do Drunken Master in 1978 then Jackie career is going to butterfly seriously. He would instead be doing serious roles. So is he going to be as big a success as he would in OTL?

 

[e of pi]

I can see how Chan could get a better career earlier. OTL, Chan in 1976, does a film where the Producer tries to make him into the next Bruce Lee. It is a total disaster. Since Lee not dead in this timeline, the producer does a different type of film. Something like Snake in Eagle Shadow. If it a success, then he could do 3-5 similar films between 1976 and 1978, when He would be cast for the Bond Film.

As you say, it's fairly plausible to see how Chan could, with the butterflies in media in general and Kung-Fu films in particular, easily have a career sufficient to get him noticed by the Bond team, and have sufficient resume and skill that they let him choreograph his own fights. I'm not sure it's imperative that the Brainbin lay that out in detail, since their main effect is basically that they are enough to put him on the Bond producer's radar, and that's already canon.

As for Drunken Master...I don't know. Here he's made an fairly major role in a pretty big movie already (Bond), so he's got a lot of options. It's up to Brainbin to decide which he'll take ITTL--and that may differ a lot from OTL due to butterflies. We'll see where he decides to take that in any future updates he might chose to do about this kind of thing.

 

[unclepatrick]

As you say, it's fairly plausible to see how Chan could, with the butterflies in media in general and Kung-Fu films in particular, easily have a career sufficient to get him noticed by the Bond team, and have sufficient resume and skill that they let him choreograph his own fights. I'm not sure it's imperative that the Brainbin lay that out in detail, since their main effect is basically that they are enough to put him on the Bond producer's radar, and that's already canon.

As for Drunken Master...I don't know. Here he's made an fairly major role in a pretty big movie already (Bond), so he's got a lot of options. It's up to Brainbin to decide which he'll take ITTL--and that may differ a lot from OTL due to butterflies. We'll see where he decides to take that in any future updates he might chose to do about this kind of thing.

Fair enough. This is the first time in this Timeline that anything seem ASB. But we figure out how to deal with Chan, so it fine.

 

[e of pi]

Fair enough. This is the first time in this Timeline that anything seem ASB. But we figure out how to deal with Chan, so it fine.

Well, the point I was making was more that there were so many plausible paths to put Chan in that position given the butterflies that it wasn't in need of specific elaboration. I know that with Eyes I've discovered you really have to choose where you spend your effort on details or the whole thing just spirals out of the ability of one person to wrap their head around well enough to write it. Chan appearing isn't ASB--it's totally justifiable, just not worth the details to justify for what is, in essence in this post, a cameo.

 

[Falkenburg]

Just catching up after some time away, so most of my thoughts have either been aired by others or answered already.

One little thing. I read the bit about Bruce Lee's parents motivations as a nod to the Fresh Prince of Bel Air.
Was it just me, or did you intend that, Brainbin?

Could be my imagination as no-one else seems to have mentioned it.

Falkenburg

 

[e of pi]

Could be my imagination as no-one else seems to have mentioned it.

Shhh. We were hoping if no one mentioned it, it might go away (Buggblatter Beast Protocol).

 

[ryu238]

I think we are all forgetting an important point... Red China really opened up thanks to Tricky Dick's visit in 1972 and as noted "Only Nixon Could Go to China" as people considered him conservative enough... so with him out of the picture, how do we open relationships? I doubt Humphry would be called a socialist if he tried that stunt.

 

[ryu238]

I mean I am sure that Humphry would be called one...

 

[Falkenburg]

Shhh. We were hoping if no one mentioned it, it might go away (Buggblatter Beast Protocol).

Oops! SORRY! I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it.

Falkenburg

 

[NCW8]

I think we are all forgetting an important point... Red China really opened up thanks to Tricky Dick's visit in 1972 and as noted "Only Nixon Could Go to China" as people considered him conservative enough... so with him out of the picture, how do we open relationships? I doubt Humphry would be called a socialist if he tried that stunt.

How about "Only Reagan Could Go to China" ?

Mind you, it looks like ITTL, at the start Reagan's first term, relations with the USSR are thawing while those with China remain chilly. So perhaps it'll be "Only Reagan Could Go to Moscow".

Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

I think we are all forgetting an important point... Red China really opened up thanks to Tricky Dick's visit in 1972 and as noted "Only Nixon Could Go to China" as people considered him conservative enough... so with him out of the picture, how do we open relationships? I doubt Humphry would be called a socialist if he tried that stunt.

And that's the reason the PRC should still be political isolated and Taiwan should be recognized as the one true China.

 

[The Professor]

Woo (-shoo ) an update!

Good to see that Bruce survives and the Chan rises.
I'd like to think that with Jackie Chan having more serious roles he won't switch almost totally to comedy - he seems to work best in a mix of the two.
Though the idea of Chan's Wise to Bruce's Morecombe does have it's attractions...

 

[Orville_third]

How about "Only Reagan Could Go to China" ?

Mind you, it looks like ITTL, at the start Reagan's first term, relations with the USSR are thawing while those with China remain chilly. So perhaps it'll be "Only Reagan Could Go to Moscow".

Cheers,
Nigel.

Of course, even OTL, more radical elements of the Right were attacking Reagan for not being conservative enough.

 

[ryu238]

Perhaps I should clairify, in the last update, China is being more open as in OTL... except the catalist, Nixon is out of the picture and if Humphry tried, he'd be called a socalist... so why is China being open right now?

 

[Brainbin]

I am glad to be of some small help!

You've been very helpful! Don't think I didn't notice you editing my TV Tropes page, either, and thank you for that as well

Loved the Bond and Hollywood changes. Could Carradine's fate be different ITTL?

Well, IOTL, he died long after the point at which this timeline will be ending, so it's difficult to say. But considering the way he died... well, it's a lot like Ted Kennedy and Chappaquiddick. Continuing to engage in high-risk behaviours means that eventually, something bad is bound to happen...

At least this TL avoids the curse of Bruce Lee (he died in 1973, butterflies in TTL take care of that), and his son Brandon's death in 1993 on The Crow.

Bruce Lee lives. Yippee!!!

I knew you'd be pleased with that, Unknown

Bruce and Linda also had an additional child beyond Brandon and Shannon ITTL, in keeping with the Mini-Boom.

Fair enough. This is the first time in this Timeline that anything seem ASB. But we figure out how to deal with Chan, so it fine.

I'm sorry that you do not find this plot development plausible. However, I believe that butterflies can sufficiently explain the change - we're getting to the point where butterflies in the true sense of the term, without any regard for causal connections, are going to make an impact in this timeline, and here's an early example. My reasoning is that we all know Chan to be phenomenally talented, which I believe would attract the notice of the Bond producers, with all involved reaping the benefits.

One little thing. I read the bit about Bruce Lee's parents motivations as a nod to the Fresh Prince of Bel Air.
Was it just me, or did you intend that, Brainbin?

Could be my imagination as no-one else seems to have mentioned it.

Oh yes, that was 100% deliberate, and I thank you for noticing

(Technically e of pi did notice it first, but only because I told him to be on the lookout for something like that. But I'm sure he'll claim he would have seen it anyway )

I think we are all forgetting an important point... Red China really opened up thanks to Tricky Dick's visit in 1972 and as noted "Only Nixon Could Go to China" as people considered him conservative enough... so with him out of the picture, how do we open relationships? I doubt Humphry would be called a socialist if he tried that stunt.

Welcome aboard, ryu238, and thank you for your excellent question! Humphrey didn't go to China, and it's not much of a spoiler to say that Reagan won't, either. But China hasn't been "opened" by anyone - the writing was on the wall by the late 1960s (at the time of the POD) IOTL. There was no plausible way for me to avoid shifting UN recognition from the Kuomintang to Red China. Many of the Western democracies had already shifted recognition - or were in the process of doing so - before Nixon went to China IOTL. This doesn't necessarily mean that relations are anywhere near as warm, though - indeed, many countries (most notably Canada, which switched leaders from an open communist sympathizer to an old-school Tory) have seen relations noticeably decline since the early 1970s. You'll note that the "Me Decade" was an extremely pivotal time for Red China IOTL, and that's also true ITTL, as I will discuss in more detail later on. Suffice it to say, it's not going to be nearly as neat and tidy as IOTL.

Mind you, it looks like ITTL, at the start Reagan's first term, relations with the USSR are thawing while those with China remain chilly. So perhaps it'll be "Only Reagan Could Go to Moscow".

Hmmm, you might be onto something, but there's only one way to find out!

Good to see that Bruce survives and the Chan rises.
I'd like to think that with Jackie Chan having more serious roles he won't switch almost totally to comedy - he seems to work best in a mix of the two.
Though the idea of Chan's Wise to Bruce's Morecombe does have it's attractions...

The idea of the two of them partnering up would have to involve one or the other crossing the Pacific, of course, and we'll see if that comes about.

Of course, even OTL, more radical elements of the Right were attacking Reagan for not being conservative enough.

And for all the hullabaloo about "Only Nixon could go to China", he did see some opposition on the matter on his right flank, as well.

 

[ryu238]

I see... still it looks like the western nations really don't like recognizing the Republic as the official Chinese gov... this is some cold reception I reckon.

 

[Brainbin]

Today marks the first anniversary of That Wacky Redhead, and I wanted to celebrate the occasion, some 282,000 views and 2,076 replies after it had all began. There are so many people to thank for helping this timeline to get where it is today, and I daren't make a list until this thread has completely wrapped, lest I overlook anyone important. But I will post the results of the two surveys I had sent out, to provide the demographics of my readership...

Poster Demographics

35 posters contributed to this survey. The oldest poster was born in 1950; the youngest was born in 1994. The mean year of birth is 1975; the median is 1974. As for the mode... as no birth year is represented more than twice, we have a whopping eight of them, and they are: 1964, 1969, 1971, 1973, 1978, 1981, 1984, and 1990. Therefore, we have ten averages, out of twenty-seven birth years. I'm not going to subject this to withering statistical analysis, partly because any "concrete" facts would have a massive margin of error attached, but I will predict that, assuming a bell-curve distribution, the average would probably find itself in the early-to-mid-1970s, which pleases me because that is the period of the Mini-Boom ITTL, which increases the size of that cohort in relative and absolute terms compared to OTL.



Here is a chart showing the birth decades of all our posters. This one was fun to watch changing over time, because the 1970s and the 1980s have continually vied for first place (and were tied, on a number of occasions). As you can see, the 1970s edge out the 1980s with 10 posters over their 9, and the 1960s finish third with 7. The 1990s edge out the 1950s with 5 posters over their 4, for a total of 35. In the long term, I estimate that the 1970s and the 1980s will continue to vie for first place.

Top 10 Star Trek Episodes

We wound up with 13 submissions for this one, ranging in size from two entries all the way to twenty. I received ten submissions - including my own - that provided ten entries (along with, in many cases, honourable mentions). The way I decided to rank the episodes was in absolute terms; inclusion on the list merited one point, and number of honourable mentions would then serve as tie-breaker. Most submissions did not rank their chosen episodes, so I'm going to consider that irrelevant for the purposes of this list.

1. "The Trouble With Tribbles" - the only episode to appear on every list
2. "The City on the Edge of Forever" - appeared on every list but one (please direct all indignation at drakensis )
3. "Mirror, Mirror" - a solid third, but fortunately for Thande, far enough back that it wouldn't have tied or beaten "City" if he had included it on his list
4. "The Doomsday Machine" - tied with another episode for eight inclusions, but ahead of #5 thanks to one honourable mention
5. "Balance of Terror" - eight out of thirteen inclusions, no honourable mention
6. "The Devil in the Dark" - the last episode to have been unambiguously selected by a majority of those surveyed (seven out of thirteen)
7. A two-way tie: "Amok Time" and "Space Seed", both of which got six votes and one honourable mention, dubiously qualifying them for majority inclusion
8. None, due to tie for #7
9. "Arena" - the big surprise of this list, IMHO - with a whopping five votes
10. "A Piece of the Action" - with four votes, but three honourable mentions - the most of any episode, and crossing the majority threshold

And speaking of honourable mention, it goes to "Journey to Babel", which also received four votes. No other episode finished above three.

42 of the 78 episodes (counting "The Menagerie" as one, rather than two) were mentioned in at least one of our thirteen submissions. Of these 42, 17 merited inclusion on only a single list - and three did not technically rank at all, but were included only as honourable mentions. Unsurprisingly, the first two seasons dominate the list, no matter how you break it down; as you can see, the Top 10 was evenly split between them, and only 9 of the 42 chosen episodes are from the Turd Season.

---

Thanks to everyone for reading, for commenting, and for participating in these surveys! And thank you all so much for your enthusiastic and overwhelming support, in general! Here's to at least one more happy anniversary. I hope to have another proper update ready tonight, so keep your eye out for that! Until then...

 

[vultan]

You know, that list plus the honorable mention is pretty much the perfect collection of Star Trek episodes.

Congratz on the anniversary!

 

[phx1138]

Today marks the first anniversary of That Wacky Redhead, and I wanted to celebrate the occasion, some 282,000 views and 2,076 replies

Let me offer very well-deserved congratulations, then.

I can't believe it's actually been a year. It felt like maybe 6mo. Proof that good fiction causes time travel. (Or something.)

So, you've got a goal of 600,000 views & 5000 replies by next anniversary.

1964

Would that be a misprint for mine? (1963.) Or somebody else's? (Does it throw off everything?)

Top 10 Star Trek Episodes

1. "The Trouble With Tribbles" - the only episode to appear on every list
2. "The City on the Edge of Forever" - appeared on every list but one (please direct all indignation at drakensis )
3. "Mirror, Mirror" - a solid third, but fortunately for Thande, far enough back that it wouldn't have tied or beaten "City" if he had included it on his list
4. "The Doomsday Machine" - tied with another episode for eight inclusions, but ahead of #5 thanks to one honourable mention
5. "Balance of Terror" - eight out of thirteen inclusions, no honourable mention
6. "The Devil in the Dark" - the last episode to have been unambiguously selected by a majority of those surveyed (seven out of thirteen)
7. A two-way tie: "Amok Time" and "Space Seed", both of which got six votes and one honourable mention, dubiously qualifying them for majority inclusion
8. "Arena" - the big surprise of this list, IMHO - with a whopping five votes
9. "A Piece of the Action" - with four votes, but three honourable mentions - the most of any episode, and crossing the majority threshold

And speaking of honourable mention, it goes to "Journey to Babel", which also received four votes. No other episode finished above three.

A pretty extraordinary list. If somebody said I could only watch ten, I'd be pretty happy with this list, allowing I could skip "Arena" for "Journey to Babel" (& watch both "Amok Time" and "Space Seed").

Looking at them, it makes me think just how good the writing was on the best episodes. (I can't speak to the directing; I'm not sensitive enough to how much difference it makes.) Yet you also see a strong "monster movie" vibe: "Arena" & "Devil in the Dark", & a comedy stream, too, with "Tribbles" & "Piece of the Action". It makes me wonder if "TOS" didn't influence styles of shows more than we realize. "Stargate" & "Warehouse 13" come to mind: monsters, with some comedy, & SF/fantasy with a lot of comedy. (FYI, for fans of "13", when I first heard about it, I thought it was a stupid idea, so it's probably going to be a cult hit, same as "Buffy" was. Might even end up bigger than "Magnum".)

BTW, I've deleted the "tie", since IMO, if there's a tie, there's room for another...which actually puts "Journey to Babel" on the Top 10. (I've never understood the reasoning of omitting the next number: if they're tied, they're equal...)

only 9 of the 42 chosen episodes are from the Turd Season.

Looking thru WP's list of episodes, I have to confess, I'm repeatedly surprised how many I liked a lot were... Just to name one: "Enterprise Incident". Who'd have thought?

 

[Falkenburg]

Happy Birthday!

Time flies and all that. Here's to the continuing adventures of That Wacky Redhead.

Falkenburg