Map Thread VII

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Krall

Banned
So who is the current head of our glorious empire?
Does that matter? Thank God that every day that you live in the glorious nation of Columbia. God bless Columbia!

(But seriously who is the leader)

His/Her Continental Majesty Emperor/Emperess Doesn'thaveanamebecauseIhaven'tworkedthatoutyetsorry. I seriously haven't worked out the names of any of the monarchs or any of the Royal Family beyond King Christian I, I'm afraid.

Why must you do things a million times better than I ever could?! *runs away to cry in a corner*
I continue to be jealous.

I like to know I'm better than other people, even if it is in a way that's entirely useless. :D

Yes, I'll upload it.

And here's the link to its page on DeviantArt, complete with the original backstory. The backstory I wrote on there may change/may already have changed, though, so some of it won't make it into the final canon, though the initial PoD and some of the details (e.g. Washington retreating from Maryland into Virginia) are going to stay in place.

However, it is nice to see that map again. So thanks! Funny story, my GF actually bonked me on the head once for looking at that on my Ipad when I was at a party. :eek:

Silly girlfriend - maps are more important than people! :rolleyes:

I would lighten up the map a little. I cannot make out where the capitals are.

I think I might know why - state capitals aren't marked. Neither is the federal capital, now that I think about it, but that's mainly because I wanted it to be moved from Philadelphia to somewhere further west towards the centre of the nation, but I couldn't be bothered to think up a history for the move or a name for the new capital.

May I just say that I hate, loath and despise all scenarios where the US is not a republic and that that map is so awesome I like it anyway. (No offense to any monarchist-US map makers :p)

I'll make a monarchist out of you yet, boy! Even though I'm not a monarchist myself, I'll do it!

er...why would the americans, first revolt against a monarchy to form a republic, then form a monarchy when the republic didnt work, then barely half a centuary later, start another civil war to form a republic...its too close together..plus the whole britain selling their possessions just to get in good graces with the americans makes no sense..to back imperialists, and being imperialists themselves, they would never have divided their empire just to get prestige in a foreign nation, a nation who rebelled against them barely a centuary earlier

its a good map design but the backstory needs work

1. On the issue of the monarchy/republic flip-flopping: The original American republic was structured much differently than the later Kingdom was. Whilst many statesmen in America, as well as most people in Europe, believed that the failure of the original American republic was a failure of their "Republican Experiment" there was always a sizeable minority who believed that a more centralised republic would work - indeed it was a hard decision to make America a Kingdom instead, if only because it was believed that the larger states could impose their head of state on the others (which was unacceptable) and because many American politicians, as well as many Europeans, would have ridiculed the system claiming that they needed a monarchy instead. In addition to this the monarchy was in no way a traditional one - the King had clearly defined powers and his power was strictly checked and balanced by elected bodies, which even had the power to remove the powers of the King and hand them over to a Regent if needs be.

However, as the Kingdom became more powerful people in the North came to associate with and like the monarchy more and more - the monarchs of America were generally rather liberal, pro-industry and anti-abolitionist (though they were tactful enough not to say that in public), whereas elected officials were seen as more corrupt and unreliable. They came to believe that the monarch was a more reliable and progressive because they didn't have to worry about re-election, and because they didn't have to be swayed by the opinions of "uneducated southern farmers".

Conversely, the people of the South saw the monarchy's liberal tendencies as a betrayal, and they saw the elected congress as corrupt and in the pocket of the North, as the North had grown greatly in population in comparison to the South. Similarly the conflict over slavery was as prominent in this timeline as it was in ours, only compromises between Free and Slave States were much fewer as the North was generally more powerful, and the federal government was more abolitionist due to the influence of liberal monarchs. This meant that powerful plantation owners were rallied against the monarchy and the current centralised form of government, and many people saw the powerful federal government as infringing on states' rights and wanted a more devolved form of government. The monarch was a symbol of centralised government under the control of liberals, abolitionists and the North.

There were various reasons why the people of the West (the states of Oregon and Washington IOTL) were generally in favour of a republic. Many European republicans had settled there after the Napoleonic Wars, and prior to its official annexation into the Kingdom the region was ruled by a provisional government, like it was IOTL, which was republican in nature. The cities of the West Coast were known for their universities and attracted many political thinkers, the region also attracted richer (and better educated) immigrants who could afford to reach the area by boat, whilst poorer settlers generally settled on the East Coast or in the Great Plains. This pool of educated thinkers, so far from the concerns of the states east of the Rockies, produced many left-leaning thinkers who were not pro-monarchy, and would rather have a centralised government without a monarch at its head (much like the USA of OTL). Their pro-republican works were distributed amongst the South and were misused and misinterpreted in order to further the cause of states' rights and slavery.

Whilst the South viewed their war as one for states' rights and decentralised government - which had become synonymous with republican governance - the West viewed there war more as one for a republic of any form. Admittedly there were many people who saw the King in Philadelphia as being too far removed from the interests of the West Coast, and so favoured greater decentralisation or even independence, they mainly fought merely for a republic. Republicanism was popular in the West, but most people did not favour armed revolution - many were content with fighting for a peaceful change to the constitution, including many amongst the intelligentsia. Businessmen in the region also saw the war, greater decentralisation, and independence as bad for business, and so continued to support the centralised government. As a result of these factors the rebellion in the West was generally unpopular and was quickly put down once a force could be raised in order to deal with them. The war in the South was much harder fought, especially in Virginia whose high population and relatively high number of abolitionists caused a great difference of opinion between its people, as their high population gave them greater political clout in the federal government than most southern states, and the abolitionists obviously supported the North in order to bring in a government that would abolish slavery.

So the reason for the flip-flopping is because many didn't believe the original decision to become a monarchy was a good idea, and because the main reasons for the Civil War IOTL - slavery and states' rights - became intertwined and synonymous with republicanism.

2. On the "Rupertsland Purchase": First, I know that region doesn't contain all of Rupertsland, but it's the simplest way of referring to the region.

There were numerous factors behind Britain's selling of the region to America. The one I have already mentioned is to "get in America's good books" and bring them into the Glorious Regime as a secondary power. It was also a follow-up to Britain's about-face on its rivalry with America during the Civil War, in order to show them that Britain was now fine with America's independence and would not continue to antagonise them. Britain's rivalry with America was seen as a threat to British North America, since America could easily achieve an advantage in numbers on land, even though Britain's navy was superior.

Britain's main reason for expanding across North America was to secure a trade route from the East Coast to the West. They did technically achieve this, but America had used its local dominance on land to threaten Britain into conceding more of Oregon than it did IOTL, and they had also secured Vancouver island as their territory, meaning that the British trade route was unpopular in comparison to going through American territory. America's greater concentration of railroads and the fact that they built a transcontinental railroad before Britain could added to the decline of western British North America as a trading outpost.

In addition to this British fur traders were facing great competition from American traders in the area, as well as Russian traders to a lesser extent. Russia's North American colony was also more heavily populated and more profitable than IOTL, due to the earlier discovery of gold in the region and the Russian government's support of the colonisation of and immigration to the region. Russia was seen as a threat to the gold mines of the Yukon, and to Canada in general. America was viewed in a similar way, but if the region had been sold to Russia then America could easily have taken it back, whereas if it was given to America then Russia could not muster a local force large enough to take it. In addition to this Britain was actively in conflict with Russia over trade in China and the rest of East Asia, so the opinions of British politicians were generally against Russia, whereas they had fewer issues with America.

I'd also like to note that being imperialist and giving away territory is not hypocritical. The British don't want direct control over more territory; they want more effective control over more trade and political/military clout. Having their opinion being worth something to a great power and having that great power on their side in any real war is worth a lot more than ruling over a lot of snow (apologies to all the Canadians out there!).

I'd also like to note that the Imperialists were not necessarily imperialist. Their defining features are that they are pro-monarchism, pro-federal government, left-leaning and abolitionist. Whilst many Imperialists were patriotic imperialists, Imperialists were not necessarily imperialists. They're called Imperialists because they support the monarchy, and "Royalists" wouldn't make sense, considering they advocated (and succeeded in) renaming the King to the Emperor. I suppose "Monarchist" would have been a better term to use, especially considering they were fighting against republicans. Bugger, I wish I'd thought of that at the time!

3. In conclusion:

17wmpp.gif


(Apologies for the huge post.)
 
makes alot more sense now youve explained it..mostly

also is the american monarchy hereditary, or like the holy roman empire, "elected" (even though the hre was in the end ruled by the habsburgs for over 400 years, it still had to elect them each time..or at least a general consensus), cos with hereditary rule you tend to always have a idiot who none will like (like britian had john and charles I...and the hanovarians)
 
Glad I could help.

I have an American Monarchy timeline, I just never work on it. Even if I did, I doubt it would get much attention, it doesn't have as cool a map. I did post the 1910 version recently, actually. Yes that is a shameless plug and an attempt to make me feel better.
 

Krall

Banned
makes alot more sense now youve explained it..mostly

also is the american monarchy hereditary, or like the holy roman empire, "elected" (even though the hre was in the end ruled by the habsburgs for over 400 years, it still had to elect them each time..or at least a general consensus), cos with hereditary rule you tend to always have a idiot who none will like (like britian had john and charles I...and the hanovarians)

It's hereditary, but the Americans got rather lucky. The less competent and less well-liked monarchs are generally overshadowed by the elected federal government, and the outright mad ones have their powers transferred to a regent (usually a high-ranking elected offical, occasionally their heir). The American monarchs also think about their position as King/Emperor differently from European monarchs - they think of America less of as a personal fief gifted to them by God to do with as they wish, and more as a nation which they have been given a duty and obligation to rule over correctly and morally by the American people. This idea of monarchy as a responsibility rather than a right changes their style of rule significantly, and those monarchs who disagree with it don't tend to keep their powers for long. In essence, it's hereditary, but the people choose which monarchs to listen to and the monarchy know this.

I know those constraints aren't enough to keep all of America's monarchs as good, honourable, moral and charismatic, but the first few definitely were. For instance, the King during the Civil War would be the son of Christian Frederick himself, and so would probably have taken on his father's opinions and good diplomacy. He also would have been the first American monarch to be raised in America as an American, which would go some way to improving his approval ratings. He likely would have been born some time during the American Revolution, and a myth of "the Son of the Revolution" may also work in his favour, bolstering popular opinion in favour of his rule.

Glad I could help.

I have an American Monarchy timeline, I just never work on it. Even if I did, I doubt it would get much attention, it doesn't have as cool a map. I did post the 1910 version recently, actually. Yes that is a shameless plug and an attempt to make me feel better.

It's not a shameless plug without a link. ;)
 
Here`s the world in the early 20s, if the Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria stayed neutral during WWI.

The Ottoman Empire gets Bahrain and Kuwait from the British Empire as a "Thank you!", plus Central Arabia and the Saudi State.

20110615 Erde 1923.PNG
 
Well when you put it like that. Here is the "finalized" 1910 map (its on the even of the 1st Great War) and here is the link to the ever unfinished thread, though that is subject to be altered.

KingdomofAmericaMk3.png
 
Here`s the world in the early 20s, if the Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria stayed neutral during WWI.

The Ottoman Empire gets Bahrain and Kuwait from the British Empire as a "Thank you!", plus Central Arabia and the Saudi State.

I think the Ottomans would likely give Central, Southern and maybe part of the East coast to a puppet Rashidun/Hashemite state rather than incorporating it, which would cause headaches.
 
A map of the present day from my probably never to be finished TL/story (or if I do, I'll start over as 2.0). Basic premise is that the US fractures before the Constitution but after the AoC.

Other notable events include a larger British Empire that overextends itself, crumbling through war and socialist revolution in the 1880s, a more violent Spring of Nations (resulting in an earlier Germany), split India and Indonesia, and a surviving (but ailing Japanese Empire).

Note, that while the TL was only at the point where the country being focused on was the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, it becomes the Confederal Union of Pennsylvania and Virginia by the 1880s (through a very long and complicated process).

Also, Africa may look pretty arbitrary, but I can explain every single one of those if I have to (just being lazy ATM). Keep in mind, the continent did get colonized, and that decolonization was a few decades later then IOTL.

PA2011.PNG
 

Laurentia

Banned
A map of the present day from my probably never to be finished TL/story (or if I do, I'll start over as 2.0). Basic premise is that the US fractures before the Constitution but after the AoC.

Other notable events include a larger British Empire that overextends itself, crumbling through war and socialist revolution in the 1880s, a more violent Spring of Nations (resulting in an earlier Germany), split India and Indonesia, and a surviving (but ailing Japanese Empire).

Note, that while the TL was only at the point where the country being focused on was the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, it becomes the Confederal Union of Pennsylvania and Virginia by the 1880s (through a very long and complicated process).

Also, Africa may look pretty arbitrary, but I can explain every single one of those if I have to (just being lazy ATM). Keep in mind, the continent did get colonized, and that decolonization was a few decades later then IOTL.

This seems vaguely familiar. How did Pennsylvania - Virginia get New York?
 
This seems vaguely familiar. How did Pennsylvania - Virginia get New York?

New York was on the decline from the start, getting hit hard in the War of 1812/Louisiana War where the UK stomped all over the American Coalition. After that they suffered a severe economic downturn in the 1850s which caused (or perhaps widened) a rift between NYC and upstate NY. There was a peaceful split, but neither really had the political will to survive by this point, with upstate joining Pennsylvania pretty quickly. The remaining areas joined in the 1880s when the revolution in the UK disrupted their trade, sinking the economy once again just as they were starting to get back on their feet.

The Union wasn't formed until 3-4 years after this.
 
Here`s the world in the early 20s, if the Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria stayed neutral during WWI.

The Ottoman Empire gets Bahrain and Kuwait from the British Empire as a "Thank you!", plus Central Arabia and the Saudi State.
I can't help but wonder how happy (and rich) the Ottomans are going to be once they discover all the oil sitting under them.
 

Laurentia

Banned
New York was on the decline from the start, getting hit hard in the War of 1812/Louisiana War where the UK stomped all over the American Coalition. After that they suffered a severe economic downturn in the 1850s which caused (or perhaps widened) a rift between NYC and upstate NY. There was a peaceful split, but neither really had the political will to survive by this point, with upstate joining Pennsylvania pretty quickly. The remaining areas joined in the 1880s when the revolution in the UK disrupted their trade, sinking the economy once again just as they were starting to get back on their feet.

The Union wasn't formed until 3-4 years after this.

Oh, now I remember. It stills reminds me of the Shared Worlds game, though.
 
His/Her Continental Majesty Emperor/Emperess Doesn'thaveanamebecauseIhaven'tworkedthatoutyetsorry. I seriously haven't worked out the names of any of the monarchs or any of the Royal Family beyond King Christian I, I'm afraid.



I like to know I'm better than other people, even if it is in a way that's entirely useless. :D



And here's the link to its page on DeviantArt, complete with the original backstory. .......3. In conclusion:



(Apologies for the huge post.)

What might be interesting is a US/Columbia that has elected monarchs that rule as very powerful presidents until death, with Congress given OTL powers and designed to be the most powerful branch of the government. (As OTL) This would allow the democratic base of America to remain intact, while still allowing for the "inevitability" of a monarch.
 
Here`s the world in the early 20s, if the Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria stayed neutral during WWI.

The Ottoman Empire gets Bahrain and Kuwait from the British Empire as a "Thank you!", plus Central Arabia and the Saudi State.

I suspect that the Greeks would get northern Epirus in this timeline since annexing areas from the Ottomans and Bulgarians is out of the question.
 

Krall

Banned
What might be interesting is a US/Columbia that has elected monarchs that rule as very powerful presidents until death, with Congress given OTL powers and designed to be the most powerful branch of the government. (As OTL) This would allow the democratic base of America to remain intact, while still allowing for the "inevitability" of a monarch.

Whilst elected monarchies are cool, having the monarch be elected ITTL wouldn't make a lot of sense - some of the main reasons why a monarchy was seen as preferable to a republic was because with a monarchy the head of state does not need to pander to the masses to get into power, does not need to worry about re-election, and is not imposed on the smaller states by the larger ones. Being unelected was actually considered a good thing in this scenario, as it balanced out many of the perceived problems with an elected government.

*makes squeeing noises* I have been looking forward to this.

I am delighted an enlightened that my cartography can induce a six-foot-six Hoosier to squeeing. :D
 

Krall

Banned
'

What program did you use to make this map?

I used InkScape (which is free, by the way) to draw the various elements, then I used Paint.NET (again, free) to put the various elements together and overlay the image on top of an image of aged paper.

I should note that I didn't draw the pictures of military fellows at the bottom of the image - those come from this online picture library.

Hey! I am not a Hoosier, I live here but I am not one of them.

Then I must offer my apologies, dear sir. Might I enquire as to your actual state of origin?

Also I am sigging that

:cool:
 
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