Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
I have to tell you that you have one of the more interesting timelines in the board. I would like to see if the Sassanids end up conquered by the Zoharists.
Remnants of Rome
- Thread starter Zuvarq
- Start date
So was Zohar a Jew as his name would suggest? If so, why is his "Bible" written in Arabic (as the word Tarikh would suggest)? Also, what is the meaning of the word "Rahbarate"?
Definately following this TL. Interestingly enough, I wrote a TL a few months back using the same basic POD, although with very different results. I think I will post it here eventually, once this TL progresses a bit more (don't want to have two TLs that are too similar going at once)
Definately following this TL. Interestingly enough, I wrote a TL a few months back using the same basic POD, although with very different results. I think I will post it here eventually, once this TL progresses a bit more (don't want to have two TLs that are too similar going at once)
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
I don't know where exactly I read this but much of Zohar's Rahbarate took up land in the area we then knew as Mesopotamia was already populated by a mainly Arabic-speaking population. Much of it in our time-line was already held by Arab client states who were tied to the Sassanid Empire so it would make sense for him to have the holy books to be written in Arabic.
Zohar was, prior to founding Zoharism, a Christianized Jew with knowledge of the beliefs of Zoroastrianism.
Most of the holy books are in Persian and some in Aramaic. Tarikh is a Persian/Farsi word.
Rahbar is the Persian/Farsi word for leader.
Caliph meant Representative or Successor, but that fits more for a tribal-'democratic'-dictatorship like the Caliphate. Rahbar as Leader makes more sense for another ol' despotic monarchy.
Really? I'm pretty sure that Arabic only became widespread during and after the rise of Islam. Aramaic, Syriac, and Persian would be spoken in Mesopotamia.
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Was it Aramaic? I'm fairly certain that Arabs had already penetrated the area for a while though they were not the dominant group yet.
No more than the Gothic language had penetrated the city of Neapolis prior to the fifth century.
I'm pretty sure that, prior to Islam, Mesopotamians, Persians, and Egyptians thought the Arabians were uncouth barbarians in the same way the Romans and Greeks thought the Germanics were.
EDIT: But they traded a lot.
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Here are some snippets from the Tarikh to show Zoharism's similarities to Islam, Christianity, and Zoroastrianism. It has a bit less similarities to Islam than I'd like, though.
I'll post the next actual update soon.
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:1
“In the beginning, the Lord said, “let there be light,” and so light had cometh from thy emptiness. Next the Lord said “let there be” and so a barren world had cometh from the emptiness.”
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:2
“The Lord made rain for two hundred years and the world was filled with water.”
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:3
“The Lord placed Tree, Fish, and Beast upon thy earth.”
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:4
“The Lord placed the first man, Adam, upon the earth. “What be thine name?” Adam said. The Lord replied. “I am the Lord thy God, and my name is Ahura Mazda.””
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:7
“The Lord told Adam the names of all the things upon the Earth, and Adam recited them.”
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:20
“The Lord created the first woman, Nasreen, from Adam’s soul.”
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:23
““Eating fruit from thy Tree of Knowledge will give you knowledge of all things,” said the serpent. “Do not eat from thy Tree, else you shall die.” stated the Lord. But Adam and Nasreen each had taken fruit from thy Tree and they ate.”
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:24
““Thee have sinned by eating thy fruit of thy Tree of Knowledge, and man and woman shall be punished for eternity,” said the Lord.”
Tarikh The Life of Zohar Yehudah 3:1
“The Lord placed the Prophet, Son of God, Lord, and Savior himself, Zohar Yehudah, upon the earth.”
I'll post the next actual update soon.
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:1
“In the beginning, the Lord said, “let there be light,” and so light had cometh from thy emptiness. Next the Lord said “let there be” and so a barren world had cometh from the emptiness.”
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:2
“The Lord made rain for two hundred years and the world was filled with water.”
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:3
“The Lord placed Tree, Fish, and Beast upon thy earth.”
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:4
“The Lord placed the first man, Adam, upon the earth. “What be thine name?” Adam said. The Lord replied. “I am the Lord thy God, and my name is Ahura Mazda.””
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:7
“The Lord told Adam the names of all the things upon the Earth, and Adam recited them.”
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:20
“The Lord created the first woman, Nasreen, from Adam’s soul.”
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:23
““Eating fruit from thy Tree of Knowledge will give you knowledge of all things,” said the serpent. “Do not eat from thy Tree, else you shall die.” stated the Lord. But Adam and Nasreen each had taken fruit from thy Tree and they ate.”
Tarikh Book of Creation 1:24
““Thee have sinned by eating thy fruit of thy Tree of Knowledge, and man and woman shall be punished for eternity,” said the Lord.”
Tarikh The Life of Zohar Yehudah 3:1
“The Lord placed the Prophet, Son of God, Lord, and Savior himself, Zohar Yehudah, upon the earth.”
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
Is it safe to assume that since Zoharism has began in Mesopotamia and Persia, that like Islam it will adopt a mainly Persian-based cultural attitude.
KHODADAD'S JIHĀD
In 455, Yazdegerd II, who had fled from the Zoharists when they captured Ctesiphon, was captured and executed. Hormizd III reigned for eight days until he, too, was captured and executed. Loyal Sassanids put up resistance until February 456, and then the war between the followers of Zohar and the Sassanids, which had seemed like such a struggle in the past years, was ended abruptly with the full establishment of the Rahbarate.
Khodadad Yehudah, the first Rahbar, son of the Prophet himself, finally controlled all of Persia. Just a year after the Rahbarate was fully established, Khodadad invaded the Eastern Roman Empire in February 457. Sensing an opportunity, the Ostrogoths and Huns invaded the Eastern Roman Empire as well.
Khodadad proved himself a skilled general against the Romans. Antioch, Damascus, Edessa, Trapezus, Petra, and Jerusalem fell to the Zoharists. However it was not just Khodadad’s excellent generalship. The troops were devout followers of Zoharism and were motivated by their faith, and morale was higher because they felt God was on their side. To the west, Ardaric of the Ostrogoths and Ellac II of the Huns led armies of their own and Greece was ravaged. The Rahbarate made peace with the Romans in January 465.
Meanwhile, Zoharism continued to spread. Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians were tolerated, though most of them had to pay a small tax. Khodadad renamed Jerusalem to Khodasahrestan (commonly called Khodasahr). Khodadad commissioned the construction of the giant Al-Maqdis kelisa (mosque/church) in Khodasahr. He also commissioned the construction of giant kelisas in Babylon and Ctesiphon. The three cities eventually became thought of as holy cities.
Meanwhile, kingdoms in Britannia expanded. The Chief of the Votadini founded a great Empire, which was enormous compared to most of the Brythonic states, but small compared to most kingdoms in Europe, including the Empires of Londinium and Corinium. Most of the Roman states in Britannia also expanded, Londinium especially. The Emperor of Londinium, after the conquest of several small bordering kingdoms and chiefdoms, changed the name of his empire to the Holy Londinian Empire (Imperium Londinium Sacrum). Soon afterward, St. Demetrius, Bishop of Londinium, declared himself a Pope in opposition to Bishop of Rome Leo II. This is thought to have begun the Schism of Britannia. All the Christian states in Britannia eventually supported St. Demetrius as the Pope.
In Gaul, the Langobards led by Ernakh conquered much of the barbarian lands to the north. According to Anglian, Mainland Frisian, and Mainland Saxon legends, the Langobards under Ernakh sent ‘a million men and a million demons’ and forged an empire. In reality Ernakh led 30,000 men, nearly all cavalry, but obviously no demons of any kind. The conquest was quite harsh. Everyone who wasn’t killed in battle was enslaved.
Flavius Julius II Tiranus planned to invade Alemannia in 463 and reconquer Septimania. This plan was soon prevented from coming to fruition. In the province of Baetica, Vandal and Alan landowners bribed the governor of the province. Ever since the creation of a Roman Empire in Iberia, the foederati status of the Vandals and Alans had gradually meant less and less as they assimilated into Roman society mostly as landowners, and the Romans began to once again use non-barbarian armies. In the 460s, only about eight percent of the Roman army was barbarian. But nearly half of Vandals and Alans remained as a separate culture, and Vandals and Alans who had partly or even fully assimilated into Roman culture still retained ties with family who refused to assimilate, which included the ten percent of the Roman army which did remain barbarian, mostly centered in Baetica.
Soon began the one-year Vandal-Alan War, delaying Julius’ plans. With the support of the governor of Baetica, one Roman legion constituted mostly of Vandals and Alans, mercenaries from Vandalania, and a large amount of armed Vandal and Alan peasants and landowners started a revolt in February 463. Five Roman legions attacked the rebels, two led by Julius himself, pushing to Gades, and the other three led by general Demetrius pushing to Carteia. Julius pushed east, Demetrius pushed west, and the legions combined into a massive army and attacked rebels to the east. In February 464, the war ended. The Vandals and Alans were all made slaves.
Julius II once again set his eyes upon Alemannian Septimania. However, he died due to a liver disease. His son Augustus became Emperor Flavius Augustus Tiranus. Augustus prepared for war, but not with Alemannia.
In 455, Yazdegerd II, who had fled from the Zoharists when they captured Ctesiphon, was captured and executed. Hormizd III reigned for eight days until he, too, was captured and executed. Loyal Sassanids put up resistance until February 456, and then the war between the followers of Zohar and the Sassanids, which had seemed like such a struggle in the past years, was ended abruptly with the full establishment of the Rahbarate.
Khodadad Yehudah, the first Rahbar, son of the Prophet himself, finally controlled all of Persia. Just a year after the Rahbarate was fully established, Khodadad invaded the Eastern Roman Empire in February 457. Sensing an opportunity, the Ostrogoths and Huns invaded the Eastern Roman Empire as well.
Khodadad proved himself a skilled general against the Romans. Antioch, Damascus, Edessa, Trapezus, Petra, and Jerusalem fell to the Zoharists. However it was not just Khodadad’s excellent generalship. The troops were devout followers of Zoharism and were motivated by their faith, and morale was higher because they felt God was on their side. To the west, Ardaric of the Ostrogoths and Ellac II of the Huns led armies of their own and Greece was ravaged. The Rahbarate made peace with the Romans in January 465.
Meanwhile, Zoharism continued to spread. Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians were tolerated, though most of them had to pay a small tax. Khodadad renamed Jerusalem to Khodasahrestan (commonly called Khodasahr). Khodadad commissioned the construction of the giant Al-Maqdis kelisa (mosque/church) in Khodasahr. He also commissioned the construction of giant kelisas in Babylon and Ctesiphon. The three cities eventually became thought of as holy cities.
Meanwhile, kingdoms in Britannia expanded. The Chief of the Votadini founded a great Empire, which was enormous compared to most of the Brythonic states, but small compared to most kingdoms in Europe, including the Empires of Londinium and Corinium. Most of the Roman states in Britannia also expanded, Londinium especially. The Emperor of Londinium, after the conquest of several small bordering kingdoms and chiefdoms, changed the name of his empire to the Holy Londinian Empire (Imperium Londinium Sacrum). Soon afterward, St. Demetrius, Bishop of Londinium, declared himself a Pope in opposition to Bishop of Rome Leo II. This is thought to have begun the Schism of Britannia. All the Christian states in Britannia eventually supported St. Demetrius as the Pope.
In Gaul, the Langobards led by Ernakh conquered much of the barbarian lands to the north. According to Anglian, Mainland Frisian, and Mainland Saxon legends, the Langobards under Ernakh sent ‘a million men and a million demons’ and forged an empire. In reality Ernakh led 30,000 men, nearly all cavalry, but obviously no demons of any kind. The conquest was quite harsh. Everyone who wasn’t killed in battle was enslaved.
Flavius Julius II Tiranus planned to invade Alemannia in 463 and reconquer Septimania. This plan was soon prevented from coming to fruition. In the province of Baetica, Vandal and Alan landowners bribed the governor of the province. Ever since the creation of a Roman Empire in Iberia, the foederati status of the Vandals and Alans had gradually meant less and less as they assimilated into Roman society mostly as landowners, and the Romans began to once again use non-barbarian armies. In the 460s, only about eight percent of the Roman army was barbarian. But nearly half of Vandals and Alans remained as a separate culture, and Vandals and Alans who had partly or even fully assimilated into Roman culture still retained ties with family who refused to assimilate, which included the ten percent of the Roman army which did remain barbarian, mostly centered in Baetica.
Soon began the one-year Vandal-Alan War, delaying Julius’ plans. With the support of the governor of Baetica, one Roman legion constituted mostly of Vandals and Alans, mercenaries from Vandalania, and a large amount of armed Vandal and Alan peasants and landowners started a revolt in February 463. Five Roman legions attacked the rebels, two led by Julius himself, pushing to Gades, and the other three led by general Demetrius pushing to Carteia. Julius pushed east, Demetrius pushed west, and the legions combined into a massive army and attacked rebels to the east. In February 464, the war ended. The Vandals and Alans were all made slaves.
Julius II once again set his eyes upon Alemannian Septimania. However, he died due to a liver disease. His son Augustus became Emperor Flavius Augustus Tiranus. Augustus prepared for war, but not with Alemannia.
Yes, but it will still have some differences. Not sure what those will be quite yet.
Also, on a semi-related note, instead of falling behind the West in matters regarding freedom, social equality, and technology, like Islam, Zoharism will continue advancing further than the West. However this excludes the two Roman Empires; they have and will continue to have an edge in most of those areas, on both the non-Roman west and the non-Roman east.
tjvuse
Banned
What is the status of slavery in SPQR?
If the Romans are not going to attack Alemannia
my bets are on Vandalania its so isolated from every one in the coner there it would be a good next target for SPQR.
By the way it would be so cool to see the Yehudah religion VS the Islamic peoples.
If the Romans are not going to attack Alemannia
my bets are on Vandalania its so isolated from every one in the coner there it would be a good next target for SPQR.By the way it would be so cool to see the Yehudah religion VS the Islamic peoples.
What is the status of slavery in SPQR?
If the Romans are not going to attack Alemannia
By the way it would be so cool to see the Yehudah religion VS the Islamic peoples.
It was never abolished in the Roman Empire and it actually continued in Dark Ages Europe in OTL until serfdom. So slavery is still widespread. But reforms will happen in the future.
Yep it's pretty obvious.
There will never be an Islam, it's been butterflied away.
but that only because the events that lead to Islam have been changed, so it is not really butterflying away
very interesting, i´m subcribing, let´s see where the Roman Empire will expand next. I Think the conquets of the Vandals would be perfect. But also Send expeditions into the Atlantic and colonize Azores , Madeira, Baleares, Canaries islands, and from there into Africa , and maybe go to North America. It would be Great To see The roman empire conquering all North America, and then the South and make the Roman empire in the American Continent.
It would be Great To see The roman empire conquering all North America, and then the South and make the Roman empire in the American Continent.Xwarq
Well the eastern empire is now in a tight spot, although without a ruinous war with Persia 1st [as OTL] it should be able to hold against the new eastern enemy. Although the future of Egypt, long resentful, could be uncertain. The empire's going to need a strong navy.
With the Lombard slaughter of the Frisans and Saxons this could make German settlement in Britain weaker, by cutting off further support, or give a big boost as refugees from the invasion boost the settlers. With no home to go to they will be desperate and fight hard for somewhere to live. - Also, you mention a report from an Angle about this and no Angles have turned up in Britain. Given that emigration from there was partly due to increasing flooding due to locally rising sea levels that should still be occurring.
Steve
Well the eastern empire is now in a tight spot, although without a ruinous war with Persia 1st [as OTL] it should be able to hold against the new eastern enemy. Although the future of Egypt, long resentful, could be uncertain. The empire's going to need a strong navy.
With the Lombard slaughter of the Frisans and Saxons this could make German settlement in Britain weaker, by cutting off further support, or give a big boost as refugees from the invasion boost the settlers. With no home to go to they will be desperate and fight hard for somewhere to live. - Also, you mention a report from an Angle about this and no Angles have turned up in Britain. Given that emigration from there was partly due to increasing flooding due to locally rising sea levels that should still be occurring.
Steve