TL-191: Filling the Gaps
- Thread starter Craigo
- Start date
Custer looking like a stuffed parrot in the car while surrounded by vets in Reichswehr-grau outfits
Strictly speaking, my understanding is that US Green-grey is explicitly compared to uniforms worn by the Bavarian Army, so I’m not sure if that’s exactly the same colour.
https://www.ww2-weapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/thema95.jpg
^^ I believe this is the colour being referenced, if that helps. ^^
On the other hand very little says ‘Timeline-191’ more loudly than Old Man Custer, so he’s another strong candidate for the Celebration Portrait.
The only problem would be working out his medals! (Let me see, he might have a medal for the War of Secession: he’d definitely have a medal for the Indian Wars and the Second Mexican War, as well as the Great War; what other decorations do we think the Old General should have and which other ones would he have picked up anyway?).
Also, should Custer the Elder be wearing a peaked hat or a Stetson?
I know the uniforms changed quite a bit due to trench war: here's the history of Feldgrau
there's no Spanish-American War TTL but its medals can serve as models; my own read on TL-191 has a showdown over the Nicaraguan Canal (which does get built post-Mahan) so there'd be some Banana Wars; there's also Haitian and Dominican medals OTL
Mahan will have the Navy buzzing around practically everywhere: there's crises in British Columbia, Guyana 1895, Venezuela 1902, that could turn into "expeditions" to show the Flag around
and Custer will be dolled up the way he wants it, and not lacking one epaulette, aiglette, aigrette, aguillette, boutonniere, pimp ring, or waterfall of brocade
there's no Spanish-American War TTL but its medals can serve as models; my own read on TL-191 has a showdown over the Nicaraguan Canal (which does get built post-Mahan) so there'd be some Banana Wars; there's also Haitian and Dominican medals OTL
Mahan will have the Navy buzzing around practically everywhere: there's crises in British Columbia, Guyana 1895, Venezuela 1902, that could turn into "expeditions" to show the Flag around
and Custer will be dolled up the way he wants it, and not lacking one epaulette, aiglette, aigrette, aguillette, boutonniere, pimp ring, or waterfall of brocade
Last edited:
bguy
Donor
He probably got the Medal of Honor just for being in command at the Battle of the Teton River. (The U.S. was so desperate for heroes by the end of the Second Mexican War that I would imagine both him and TR earned a MoH there, and Custer did lead from the front in that battle so there would be justification for giving him an award for valor.) Maybe a Remembrance Cross for the Barrel Roll Offensive. This would be much less justified since Custer wasn't personally in harms way during the fighting, but it was a big enough victory to earn him a fourth star, so it probably would get him a major decoration as well, and it's not exactly unheard of for the U.S. War Department to bend the rules regarding medals for gallantry to the breaking point when honoring a high ranking general (witness Douglas MacArthur IOTL earning a Medal of Honor for his defense of the Philippines.) If the US in TL-191 created something akin to the Distinguished Service Medal then Custer would certainly have been one of the first recipients of that medal as well just by virtue of his rank, celebrity, and length of service. There's also probably some sort of specific victory medal for the First Great War in addition to the war's campaign medal, and maybe some sort of Army of Occupation medal for his post-war service in occupied Canada. He could also have picked up a Bronze Star for his actions following MacGregor's first bombing attempt against him.
Definitely. Dowling noted that Custer on his final tour wasn't even pretending to follow the uniform regulations anymore and described him as looking "something like a South American emperor, something like God on a particularly tasteless afternoon."
The image of Field Marshall Roberts might be a good start though it is lacking a suitably grandiose hat.
Field marshal (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia
Good grief, that man would give Zhukov a run for his money.He probably got the Medal of Honor just for being in command at the Battle of the Teton River. (The U.S. was so desperate for heroes by the end of the Second Mexican War that I would imagine both him and TR earned a MoH there, and Custer did lead from the front in that battle so there would be justification for giving him an award for valor.) Maybe a Remembrance Cross for the Barrel Roll Offensive. This would be much less justified since Custer wasn't personally in harms way during the fighting, but it was a big enough victory to earn him a fourth star, so it probably would get him a major decoration as well, and it's not exactly unheard of for the U.S. War Department to bend the rules regarding medals for gallantry to the breaking point when honoring a high ranking general (witness Douglas MacArthur IOTL earning a Medal of Honor for his defense of the Philippines.) If the US in TL-191 created something akin to the Distinguished Service Medal then Custer would certainly have been one of the first recipients of that medal as well just by virtue of his rank, celebrity, and length of service. There's also probably some sort of specific victory medal for the First Great War in addition to the war's campaign medal, and maybe some sort of Army of Occupation medal for his post-war service in occupied Canada. He could also have picked up a Bronze Star for his actions following MacGregor's first bombing attempt against him.
Definitely. Dowling noted that Custer on his final tour wasn't even pretending to follow the uniform regulations anymore and described him as looking "something like a South American emperor, something like God on a particularly tasteless afternoon."
The image of Field Marshall Roberts might be a good start though it is lacking a suitably grandiose hat.
Field marshal (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Would it be possible to create an image Jacob Featherston in military uniform (using a brown-haired Eric Stoltz as a model) staring into the viewer, behind him a giant, waving flag of the Freedom party flag with 16 stars on St. Andrews red cross and below him a section of Confederate soldiers (with OTL WW2 American G.I. uniform), barrels, and planes going off into battle?
Perhaps later a Union version could be made, too.
Fair enough.
It’s possible, but may be a little outside my price range: I’m also reluctant to commission an illustration of Featherston because the character has been quite frequently illustrated (By the modest standards of Timeline 191).
Out of curiosity, whom do you think should feature in the Northern counterpart to your Big Propaganda Poster?
Well now that we’ve all finished roaring “TR!” or “Teddy!” I would like to share an alternate mental image of US President Charles W. LaFollette looking like a nice old fellow hanging headfirst over a pit of rattlesnakes and nonetheless being depicted without one ounce of quit (I always think of Mr Kiefer Sutherland in DESIGNATED SURVIVOR when contemplating Mr LaFollette.
Bonus points if he’s surrounded by three times as many instruments of war as Featherston!
Bonus points if he’s surrounded by three times as many instruments of war as Featherston!
sadface
In this case, I'd avoid associating any one person on the poster in order to avoid any in-universe accusations of forming a cult of personality, compared to Featherston.
Instead, I'd use an image of a sea of Union soldiers, Black & White & everything in-between, wearing their OTL Werhmacht-inspired uniforms among barrels and planes; with a giant, waving flag of the Union in the background; on the lower bottom of the poster, there would be a large text that says DEATH TO THE CONFEDERATE INVADER!!!
For the record I tend to believe that US soldiers from Timeline-191 absolutely SHOULD NOT borrow inspiration from the Wehrmacht: while they unquestionably use a 'squarehead'/'coal-scuttle' helmet, I can recall no other evidence that the local US Army borrows from Imperial Germany in terms of equipment, weaponry or uniform and there's absolutely no good reason for the US to borrow influence from the Third Reich - remember, the Timeline 191 Nazis are Southern Fried.
I'd like to clarify something:
I understand that there would be no Wehrmacht in TL-191. So yeah, the Union would not be borrowing any influence from the Third Reich, in the most technical sense of the term. And yes, the books are vague in terms of just how much the Union borrows from Imperial Germany, besides the probable Stahlhelm and uniform colors, if I remember correctly.
The Union would, however, be borrowing (to some extent, if not heavily) from whatever TL-191 Germany has. Sure, there could be some unique variation, but here I'm using a strong amount of my own head canon. Perhaps, from a distance, SGW Union soldiers may sort of appear like OTL WWII German soldiers, but once you get closer, you'll notice significant differences.
This image but replace the Nazi imagery with the Freedom Party and, of course, Hitler with Featherston.
I'm tempted to cut out the middle man and just show the Snake get permanently scotched by Cassius Madison!
...
Wait a minute, wasn't there a scene in one of the SETTLING ACCOUNTS novels where Jake Featherston takes personal offence to Superman being Awesome? (As in "Bellows at his lackeys demanding a CSA counterpart to Big Blue be invented purely to punch a fictional character in the face").
Dagnabit, I meant to take Timeline-191 away from Featherston for a bit (SOUTHERN VICTORY isn't just about Southern-Fried Nazis, it has other interesting bits too, honest!), but Jake the Snake getting punched by my all-time favourite superhero is something I would literally pay to see.
Well played, @Jett-Power, well played.
...
Wait a minute, wasn't there a scene in one of the SETTLING ACCOUNTS novels where Jake Featherston takes personal offence to Superman being Awesome? (As in "Bellows at his lackeys demanding a CSA counterpart to Big Blue be invented purely to punch a fictional character in the face").
Dagnabit, I meant to take Timeline-191 away from Featherston for a bit (SOUTHERN VICTORY isn't just about Southern-Fried Nazis, it has other interesting bits too, honest!), but Jake the Snake getting punched by my all-time favourite superhero is something I would literally pay to see.
Well played, @Jett-Power, well played.
I’ve been wondering for a while now where the State Capitol of Virginia would be located after the War of Secession - this being a Harry Turtledove setting, I’m assuming Danville or Lynchburg would be the most likely candidates (and of the two Lynchburg seems to be the most plausible candidate, given it’s central location and wealth of railroad links prior to the Civil War).
May I please ask if this logic holds water? (I assume that Richmond CSA is the “seat of the government of the Confederate States” alluded to in their Constitution, though I’m not sure how the ‘no larger than ten square miles’ limit on the size of that district would work with the landscape around Richmond).
May I please ask if this logic holds water? (I assume that Richmond CSA is the “seat of the government of the Confederate States” alluded to in their Constitution, though I’m not sure how the ‘no larger than ten square miles’ limit on the size of that district would work with the landscape around Richmond).
I feel like Lynchburg would be the best candidate. Did you choose Danville because it was the final Capital of the CSA in otl?
interesting ideas! my personal TL-191 fix-up has both governments staying in Richmond, largely because I liked the idea of all the different little groups (Fire-Eaters, pantomime Cavaliers, crypto-Unionist Uplanders, military industrialists, unpaid soldiers, Black militiamen led by Gen. Longstreet, deranged job-seekers hiding pistols, petitioners, cutpurses, sporadic Sumner-style beatings) typically tripping one another up with nobody around to make them behave
it'd also highlight how reliant the CS Congress is on one state to protect them, unlike in the US system
it'd also highlight how reliant the CS Congress is on one state to protect them, unlike in the US system