The source also said that it because Manin was not a strong leader and he was also ill at the time - causing the Venetians to lose plenty of crucial opportunities to encourage defections from the Austrian Army and especially the fleet in Pola, Istria and Dalmatia (where Venetian sympathy was actually strong), as well as to integrate the mainland. However, at the beginning, all classes and all major mainland cities declared support for the Republic - a stronger leader would have been able to marshall those sympathies, both in Italy and in Dalmatia.oh and from the citation it uses:-
Yeah. OTOH, Venetian sympathy in Dalmatia/Pola/Istria was strong IOTL.I confirm that there is a deep seated mutual mistrust between Venice and the mainland.
Belluno, Paduo, Rovigo, Treviso, Udine and Vicenza joined the San Marco Republic.The source also said that it because Manin was not a strong leader and he was also ill at the time - causing the Venetians to lose plenty of crucial opportunities to encourage defections from the Austrian Army and especially the fleet in Pola, Istria and Dalmatia (where Venetian sympathy was actually strong), as well as to integrate the mainland. However, at the beginning, all classes and all major mainland cities declared support for the Republic - a stronger leader would have been able to marshall those sympathies, both in Italy and in Dalmatia.
The Venetian revolutionaries also failed to incorporate the terra ferma (the Venetian mainland) into the lagoon-based republic effectively. While revolutionary reform generated some popular support for the new régime, the revolutionaries recruited few troops there. Mainlanders were mistrustful of Venetian power, probably as a result of old assumptions about the earlier Mariner Republic. This combined with destructive foraging and other damage, which might have been avoided had the revolutionaries recruited across terra ferma.[1] While most of the middle and upper classes still supported the fight for independence, the lower classes of terra ferma were largely indifferent. The Venetian and Lombard troops of Radetzky's army remained mostly loyal and actively fought for Austria.[3] Mainland recruits could have combined with the 2,000 Papal guards and Neapolitan soldiers under General Pepe, who ignored orders to retreat in favor of supporting the infant republics.[1] But when Austrians under Nugent marched on Verona, and General Durando led a Piedmontese force to defend, Venice could only supply a few volunteers, later joined by Colonel Ferrari's Papal regulars. This was of no avail, as Nugent's force met up with Radetzky's forces and took Verona easily.[1]
Militarily, misreadings of the fluctuating political status in northern Italy—combined with Manin's indecision and ill-health, which confined him to bed at critical moments[2]—led to several damaging poor judgements by Venice. The Austrian fleet was stationed in the formerly-Venetian port of Pola, in Istria. Despite Venice having much sympathy there, they made no effort to seize the fleet.[1]Yeah. OTOH, Venetian sympathy in Dalmatia/Pola/Istria was strong IOTL.
There were mixed feelings, Verona and Padua were some of the most loyalist (towards the Republic of Venice) regions of the venetian terrafirma, they even revolted during Bonaparte's invasion that ended abolishing the republic. The only region where at least the notables were stubbornly anti-venetian was the republic's territories in Lombardy (Crema, Brescia and Bergamo), that even revolted during Napoleon's invasion.I suspect however that the peasantry and townsfolk of the Republic's mainland territories had less-than-fond memories of being ruled from the City. I doubt there was ever a Doge from Padua or Verona.
Except that whatever Venetian nationalism could have existed (none was there IOTL) was going to look at the Old Republic's legacy and therefore to be likely hostile to Vienna.
Correct. But these were not technically part of the "mainland".Yeah. OTOH, Venetian sympathy in Dalmatia/Pola/Istria was strong IOTL.
The source did literally confirmed Venetian sympathy in Dalmatia - it was the Venetians' failure to capitalize on this by not inciting revolts there. IOTL, Tommaseo, another revolutionary leader, did call for inciting revolutions in Dalmatia more than once.Militarily, misreadings of the fluctuating political status in northern Italy—combined with Manin's indecision and ill-health, which confined him to bed at critical moments[2]—led to several damaging poor judgements by Venice. The Austrian fleet was stationed in the formerly-Venetian port of Pola, in Istria. Despite Venice having much sympathy there, they made no effort to seize the fleet.[1]
It was Manin who failed to solidify original support - admittedly he did have a blind spot in his views. As for the middle class, the link stated outright that most of the middle class backed the revolution, while the lower class became indifferent.Yet, much of the pro-Austrian violence in the mainland allowed the Austrians to win much of their battles in the mainland and recapture it. Most of the middle and rural class did not support Venetians in the manner the Venetians of Venice itself
Yeah, and the Dalmatian side was even more loyal.There were mixed feelings, Verona and Padua were some of the most loyalist (towards the Republic of Venice) regions of the venetian terrafirma, they even revolted during Bonaparte's invasion that ended abolishing the republic. The only region where at least the notables were stubbornly anti-venetian was the republic's territories in Lombardy (Crema, Brescia and Bergamo), that even revolted during Napoleon's invasion.
As I said, the Habsburg ended up doing what they did IOTL, because they realized that complete independence was the only outcome from a Venetian home rule. Easier said than done.I think you'll find political necessity and invented tradition to be capable of anything. It depends on who's driving the process.
And note that being revolutionaries at least nominally allowed the French to trumpet democratization and incite revolts in a way that no other contemporary factions (which were all monarchies) could.There were mixed feelings, Verona and Padua were some of the most loyalist (towards the Republic of Venice) regions of the venetian terrafirma, they even revolted during Bonaparte's invasion that ended abolishing the republic. The only region where at least the notables were stubbornly anti-venetian was the republic's territories in Lombardy (Crema, Brescia and Bergamo), that even revolted during Napoleon's invasion.
Sigh......The source did literally confirmed Venetian sympathy in Dalmatia - it was the Venetians' failure to capitalize on this by not inciting revolts there. IOTL, Tommaseo, another revolutionary leader, did call for inciting revolutions in Dalmatia more than once.
It was Manin who failed to solidify original support - admittedly he did have a blind spot in his views. As for the middle class, the link stated outright that most of the middle class backed the revolution, while the lower class became indifferent.
However, ITTL, even the mainland would have been more Venetian - if the Habsburgs ever attempts to promote Venetian culture. A whole new can of worms would be opened, because an independent Venetian culture was inseparable from the Old Republic. Worse, the economic policies would be unlikely to diverge - Trieste would be still favoured over Venice, whereas high debts following the Napoleonic Wars mean that Lombardy-Venetia would have become a cash cow like IOTL.
In the end, the Habsburgs did what they did - backing away from home rule IOTL - because they realized that complete independence was inevitable in such case. In other Italian states, they might be able to get away by appointing a Habsburg member as separate king, but Venetia was different.
Yeah, and the Dalmatian side was even more loyal.
As I said, the Habsburg ended up doing what they did IOTL, because they realized that complete independence was the only outcome from a Venetian home rule. Easier said than done.
Lombardy/Milan was different because they had stopped being an independent state for centuries.
I confirm that there is a deep seated mutual mistrust between Venice and the mainland.