List of monarchs III

[Peppe]

1569-1576: Stephen II (House of Tudor)

Stephen II of England's brief reign was turbulent. His father having passed when he was less than two years old, the noblemen of the realm immediately began jockeying for power. In 1573, after failing to prevent the annexation of Northumberland by the Scots at the behest of Thomas Percy, Queen Jane was removed by a coalition of nobles and replaced with the Earl of Warwick. However, Warwick's government proved to be equally inept and in 1575 he was removed from power after a brief civil war. Stephen took ill and died (not at all related to his new, noble-appointed chef, of course), and without a male successor the selection of new king was given over to Parliament. Parliament appointed ____________ to take the throne.

More of a question than a critic but... wouldn't the throne have passed to Elizabeth instead of creating incredibly bad precedent by letting Parliament choose a new monarch? I mean, even in OTL both of them were officially in the line of succession after Edward and if he died with a male heir there would be no need to change the succession, even more since Mary's only child was a bastard and so couldn't inherit, and Elizabeth was Lady Deputy of Ireland (I did say that she served his successors, but I though there wouldn't be an extinction of his line, since if it became extinct, she would most certainly be the one to inherit) so it was either that or she would simply say screw this and take Ireland for herself, seeing as I don't see an England that lost Northumberland being actually capable of saying anything and she would have held it for years by that point (although she would also probably be intelligent enough to wait for a perfect moment, like, for example, the succession of a highly disputed monarch..,)

Also, I claim next

 

[Eparkhos]

More of a question than a critic but... wouldn't the throne have passed to Elizabeth instead of creating incredibly bad precedent by letting Parliament choose a new monarch? I mean, even in OTL both of them were officially in the line of succession after Edward and if he died with a male heir there would be no need to change the succession, even more since Mary's only child was a bastard and so couldn't inherit, and Elizabeth was Lady Deputy of Ireland (I did say that she served his successors, but I though there wouldn't be an extinction of his line, since if it became extinct, she would most certainly be the one to inherit) so it was either that or she would simply say screw this and take Ireland for herself, seeing as I don't see an England that lost Northumberland being actually capable of saying anything and she would have held it for years by that point (although she would also probably be intelligent enough to wait for a perfect moment, like, for example, the succession of a highly disputed monarch..,)

Also, I claim next

Probably, but I’m not to familiar with the period. I just wanted to get a family of minor nobles on the throne, so I’m okay if anyone wants to retcon it.

 

[Cate13]

Probably, but I’m not to familiar with the period. I just wanted to get a family of minor nobles on the throne, so I’m okay if anyone wants to retcon it.

I'd vote for a retcon (you could do it if you wanted since it's was your turn) because if for some reason the English nobles didn't want Elizabeth, the Stewarts would try for the thrown because of their Tudor blood. And if neither of those worked out I could see Mary's bastard trying for it. I'd say the line of inheritance would be something like Elizabeth, Elizabeth's son(s), Elizabeth's grandchild by her son(s), Stewarts, Mary's bastard, any children of Mary's bastard.

Edit: Though it would be really cool to have Elizabeth's line take Ireland. Maybe the Stewarts take England and Elizabeth keeps Ireland?

 

[Peppe]

'The Cold-Hearted Swot'
What if Edward VI lived just long enough to produce an heir?

1547 - 1569: Edward VI (House of Tudor) [1]
1569 - 1576: Stephen II (House of Tudor) [2]
1576 - 1579: Henry IX (House of Fitzalan) [3]
1579 - 1585: Henry X (House of Fitzalan) [4]

[1] The only son and child of Henry VIII and his third wife, Jane Seymour, Edward was one of the youngest monarchs in English history, ascending to the throne at the age of 9, and ruled during the time that its formation as a truly protestant nation occurred, with the Church of England becoming more in line with those of Sweden and Denmark. A sickly man, many said he survived instead of living, suffering from some sort of disease every year of his lifetime, finally dying from tuberculosis, a disease he had lived with for years, at age 31. He also had two half sisters (who were called bastards but had been born as princesses of England in his father's two previous marriages), the ladies Mary and Elizabeth, the first (made Duchess of Bedford after giving birth to a bastard son by a groom six years prior), died of a disease in the bowels at age 45, and the second married Lord Robert Dudley and later was made Duchess of Leinster by her own right, sent in exile to Ireland for some years, she was in many ways responsible for spreading the protestant faith among the Irish nobility and people, even though many did not follow Anglicanism per se, she served as Lord Deputy of Ireland for years for her brother and his successors. Married to Lady Jane Grey in 1554, after his death she served as regent to their son, Stephen II.
[2] Stephen II of England's brief reign was turbulent. His father having passed when he was less than two years old, the noblemen of the realm immediately began jockeying for power. In 1573, after failing to prevent the annexation of Northumberland by the Scots at the behest of Thomas Percy, Queen Jane was removed by a coalition of nobles and replaced with the Earl of Warwick. However, Warwick's government proved to be equally inept and in 1575 he was removed from power after a brief civil war. Stephen took ill and died (not at all related to his new, noble-appointed chef, of course), and without a male successor the selection of a new king was given over to Parliament. Parliament appointed Henry Fitzalan, 12th Earl of Arundel to take the throne.
[3] The election of Henry IX by Parliament was highly controversial, and largely a result of the fractious political infighting throughout the reign of Stephen II. The 12th Earl of Arundel had been a near-permanent fixture in the courts of the Tudor monarchs, and had shrewdly supported the Regency Council of Jane to maintain a strong political position. However, upon the loss of Northumberland and the humiliation of the Earl of Warwick, Henry was courted by his supporters in Parliament as a neutral candidate around which the nobles of England could unite - and his pragmatic ambition played to their demands. Despite being 63 at the time of his coronation, Henry was able to point to an heir (also called Henry, Baron Maltravers, born in 1538), while his two daughters were well-wedded into the heart of the nobility with children of their own. Coming to the throne in 1576, Henry IX was a divisive figure and often unaccepted by those who favoured his rival candidates for the throne. Many of these candidates remained a threat upon his death just three years later in 1579.
[4] While his father's reign was tense with political intrigue and unrest due to the decision of completely set aside all female Tudors (from the lines of Elizabeth and Mary and Princess Jane, Stephen II's older sister), Henry X's (who was already in his late 30s by the time of his father's coronation) was marked by war, as during it the English Civil War (sometimes called "War of the Three Kings") started, when Lady Elizabeth, who had been living in Ireland since 1552, declared Irish independence with herself as Queen in 1582, basically declaring that any authority England had over it was moot after they basically deposed the Tudors. This action by now Queen Elizabeth started a domino effect as all the groups against the new monarchs decided that now was the time, and with that started the English Civil War (sometimes called "The War of the Five Kings").

The first to raise the banners of war where the protestants, who together with their belief that Henry X was a crypto-catholic (his family having only begrudgingly accepted protestantism (in OTL Henry IX was actually in a plot to kill Elizabeth I and put Mary Queen of Scots on the throne and died in prison)during the reign of Edward VI) and had no real loyalty to his line, which was perceived as being barely royal at all (Henry X's brother-in-law was considered to have a better royal lineage than him, as he was at least the premier duke of England), and so by the end of 1582 they rose in rebellion, a good chunk of England with them, under the leadership of the Duke of Bedford, Thomas (bastard son of the Lady Mary, received her title after her death when he was 6 and was raised as a page to his uncle), who was fiercely protestant and had eloped and married Princess Jane in 1571

After them the Scottish, under the young King James VI (whose mother, the catholic Mary, had died of "a disease in the bowels" when he was 2), invaded, claiming that he, as a man of fully royal lineage and a direct descendant of Henry VII, was the rightful king, receiving some support from the nobility; and even the Welsh rose in rebellion around a man claiming to be Edward VI's illegitimate son (he ended up dying fighting another claimant who said he was the illegitimate grandson of Prince Arthur, son of Henry VII).

Henry X died in the camp of battle fighting against King Thomas (who had by that point taken control of most of the kingdom after allying himself with his half-aunt, who was herself doing some crushing on the Scottish in Northumberland) by that time reviled by most of the population after offering to return to catholicism if the Spanish helped him, with most of his army by the time of his death being made of italian mercenaries. He was succeded by his son, _______________

Probably, but I’m not to familiar with the period. I just wanted to get a family of minor nobles on the throne, so I’m okay if anyone wants to retcon it.

I wouldn't retcon it, but here's what would most certainly happen in that case (civil wars are fun!)

 

[Premier Taylerov]

'The Cold-Hearted Swot'
What if Edward VI lived just long enough to produce an heir?

1547 - 1569: Edward VI (House of Tudor) [1]
1569 - 1576: Stephen II (House of Tudor) [2]
1576 - 1579: Henry IX (House of Fitzalan) [3]
1579 - 1585: Henry X (House of Fitzalan) [4]
1585 - 1500: Edward VII (House of Fitzalan) [5]

[1] The only son and child of Henry VIII and his third wife, Jane Seymour, Edward was one of the youngest monarchs in English history, ascending to the throne at the age of 9, and ruled during the time that its formation as a truly protestant nation occurred, with the Church of England becoming more in line with those of Sweden and Denmark. A sickly man, many said he survived instead of living, suffering from some sort of disease every year of his lifetime, finally dying from tuberculosis, a disease he had lived with for years, at age 31. He also had two half sisters (who were called bastards but had been born as princesses of England in his father's two previous marriages), the ladies Mary and Elizabeth, the first (made Duchess of Bedford after giving birth to a bastard son by a groom six years prior), died of a disease in the bowels at age 45, and the second married Lord Robert Dudley and later was made Duchess of Leinster by her own right, sent in exile to Ireland for some years, she was in many ways responsible for spreading the protestant faith among the Irish nobility and people, even though many did not follow Anglicanism per se, she served as Lord Deputy of Ireland for years for her brother and his successors. Married to Lady Jane Grey in 1554, after his death she served as regent to their son, Stephen II.
[2] Stephen II of England's brief reign was turbulent. His father having passed when he was less than two years old, the noblemen of the realm immediately began jockeying for power. In 1573, after failing to prevent the annexation of Northumberland by the Scots at the behest of Thomas Percy, Queen Jane was removed by a coalition of nobles and replaced with the Earl of Warwick. However, Warwick's government proved to be equally inept and in 1575 he was removed from power after a brief civil war. Stephen took ill and died (not at all related to his new, noble-appointed chef, of course), and without a male successor the selection of a new king was given over to Parliament. Parliament appointed Henry Fitzalan, 12th Earl of Arundel to take the throne.
[3] The election of Henry IX by Parliament was highly controversial, and largely a result of the fractious political infighting throughout the reign of Stephen II. The 12th Earl of Arundel had been a near-permanent fixture in the courts of the Tudor monarchs, and had shrewdly supported the Regency Council of Jane to maintain a strong political position. However, upon the loss of Northumberland and the humiliation of the Earl of Warwick, Henry was courted by his supporters in Parliament as a neutral candidate around which the nobles of England could unite - and his pragmatic ambition played to their demands. Despite being 63 at the time of his coronation, Henry was able to point to an heir (also called Henry, Baron Maltravers, born in 1538), while his two daughters were well-wedded into the heart of the nobility with children of their own. Coming to the throne in 1576, Henry IX was a divisive figure and often unaccepted by those who favoured his rival candidates for the throne. Many of these candidates remained a threat upon his death just three years later in 1579.
[4] While his father's reign was tense with political intrigue and unrest due to the decision of completely set aside all female Tudors (from the lines of Elizabeth and Mary and Princess Jane, Stephen II's older sister), Henry X's was marked by war. The English Civil War (sometimes called the War of the Five Kings) began when Lady Elizabeth, who had been living in Ireland since 1552, declared Irish independence with herself as Queen in 1582 - basically declaring that any authority England had over it was moot after they basically deposed the Tudors. This action by now Queen Elizabeth started a domino effect as all the groups against the new monarchs decided that now was the time to seize the throne for themselves. The first to raise the banners of war where the Protestants who, together with their belief that Henry X was a crypto-catholic (his family having only begrudgingly accepted Protestantism during the reign of Edward VI) and that this line was barely of royal standard, rose in rebellion by the end of 1582. A good chunk of England rose with them under the leadership of the Duke of Bedford and Thomas (the bastard son of the Lady Mary, who had received her title after her death), the latter of whom was was fiercely Protestant and had eloped and married Princess Jane in 1571. The Scottish were led by the young James VI who invaded England to assert his claim as a man of full royal lineage and a direct descendant of Henry VII, while even the Welsh rose up under a pretender alleging to be the illegitimate son of Edward VI. (He died fighting a second pretender, supposedly the illegitimate grandson of Prince Arthur, son of Henry VII). Henry X died in the camp of battle fighting against Thomas, who had by that point taken control of most of the kingdom after allying with his half-aunt. However, although his half-aunt had led a successful campaign in Northumberland she was reviled after unsuccessfully offering to return to Catholicism should Philip II of Spain assist her cause. Henry was succeeded by his son Edward VII.
[5] Edward VII was yet another young monarch, and came to the throne as the War of the Five Kings continued to wrack his kingdom. Thomas remained a major threat, and Edward was forced to withdraw further and further south to prevent military defeat. However, a reprise came in 1587; James VI was able to secure a narrow but significant victory against the Duke of Bedford at the Second Battle of Myton, leaving the north of England vulnerable to his advance. Seeking to claim the initiative Edward prorogued what remained of Parliament (beginning his period of 'Personal Rule') and marched north. The unexpected death of Elizabeth, Queen of Ireland in early-1588 further aided his cause, and by March Edward, Thomas and James (the latter of whom had been skirmishing for almost a year) had converged upon Yorkshire. Edward did not at first seek to engage James, and cited the claim that they were in fact related given the kinship of the Stewarts and the Fitzalans from Alan Fitz Flaad (d. 1120). Lacking a male heir, Edward proposed that his only daughter Eleanor (still a child) marry James and that their kin would be the heirs of both Scotland and England, unifying the two countries and ending the continuous Anglo-Scottish wars diplomatically. However, before any further correspondence Thomas struck first, hoping to use his superior numbers to defeat James and then smash the numerically-inferior forces of Edward. The Battle of Yarm was the final major confrontation of the War of the Five Kings. Although Thomas appeared to have the upper-hand his position was undermined by changeable weather and the premature arrival of Edward, who proceeded to engage his rearguard. It was the most decisive engagement since the Battle of Bosworth Field, barely a century prior, and like then the fate of the nation was decided in the space of a single afternoon.

PS: I have left the death date of Edward blank so that the next poster can decide his destiny following Yarm.

PPS: I deliberately chose Arundel as the name for the royal house rather than Fitzalan, although Fitzalan does have a nice ring to it. Given the Earldom of Arundel had originally been created in 1138 and the Fitzalans had held it since the mid-1200s I figured their name would be synonymous with it - in my opinion Henry could have taken Arundel as his dynastic name to court favour with Parliament given the controversial circumstances of his coronation, and similar in fashion to previous dynasties that took their geographic signifier as their name rather than their familial names. However, after doing some more reading Fitzalan seems just as appropriate, given their origins in England are all the way back in the Norman Conquest. They also have some very intriguing links to the House of Stewart, leading to what I suspect would be some very interesting propaganda during the War of the Five Kings, and I doubt that they would not try to make the most of these connections.

 

[Peppe]

'The Cold-Hearted Swot'
What if Edward VI lived just long enough to produce an heir?

1547 - 1569: Edward VI (House of Tudor) [1]
1569 - 1576: Stephen II (House of Tudor) [2]
1576 - 1579: Henry IX (House of Fitzalan) [3]
1579 - 1585: Henry X (House of Fitzalan) [4]
1585 - 1500: Edward VII (House of Fitzalan) [5]

[1] The only son and child of Henry VIII and his third wife, Jane Seymour, Edward was one of the youngest monarchs in English history, ascending to the throne at the age of 9, and ruled during the time that its formation as a truly protestant nation occurred, with the Church of England becoming more in line with those of Sweden and Denmark. A sickly man, many said he survived instead of living, suffering from some sort of disease every year of his lifetime, finally dying from tuberculosis, a disease he had lived with for years, at age 31. He also had two half sisters (who were called bastards but had been born as princesses of England in his father's two previous marriages), the ladies Mary and Elizabeth, the first (made Duchess of Bedford after giving birth to a bastard son by a groom six years prior), died of a disease in the bowels at age 45, and the second married Lord Robert Dudley and later was made Duchess of Leinster by her own right, sent in exile to Ireland for some years, she was in many ways responsible for spreading the protestant faith among the Irish nobility and people, even though many did not follow Anglicanism per se, she served as Lord Deputy of Ireland for years for her brother and his successors. Married to Lady Jane Grey in 1554, after his death she served as regent to their son, Stephen II.
[2] Stephen II of England's brief reign was turbulent. His father having passed when he was less than two years old, the noblemen of the realm immediately began jockeying for power. In 1573, after failing to prevent the annexation of Northumberland by the Scots at the behest of Thomas Percy, Queen Jane was removed by a coalition of nobles and replaced with the Earl of Warwick. However, Warwick's government proved to be equally inept and in 1575 he was removed from power after a brief civil war. Stephen took ill and died (not at all related to his new, noble-appointed chef, of course), and without a male successor the selection of a new king was given over to Parliament. Parliament appointed Henry Fitzalan, 12th Earl of Arundel to take the throne.
[3] The election of Henry IX by Parliament was highly controversial, and largely a result of the fractious political infighting throughout the reign of Stephen II. The 12th Earl of Arundel had been a near-permanent fixture in the courts of the Tudor monarchs, and had shrewdly supported the Regency Council of Jane to maintain a strong political position. However, upon the loss of Northumberland and the humiliation of the Earl of Warwick, Henry was courted by his supporters in Parliament as a neutral candidate around which the nobles of England could unite - and his pragmatic ambition played to their demands. Despite being 63 at the time of his coronation, Henry was able to point to an heir (also called Henry, Baron Maltravers, born in 1538), while his two daughters were well-wedded into the heart of the nobility with children of their own. Coming to the throne in 1576, Henry IX was a divisive figure and often unaccepted by those who favoured his rival candidates for the throne. Many of these candidates remained a threat upon his death just three years later in 1579.
[4] While his father's reign was tense with political intrigue and unrest due to the decision of completely set aside all female Tudors (from the lines of Elizabeth and Mary and Princess Jane, Stephen II's older sister), Henry X's was marked by war. The English Civil War (sometimes called the War of the Five Kings) began when Lady Elizabeth, who had been living in Ireland since 1552, declared Irish independence with herself as Queen in 1582 - basically declaring that any authority England had over it was moot after they basically deposed the Tudors. This action by now Queen Elizabeth started a domino effect as all the groups against the new monarchs decided that now was the time to seize the throne for themselves. The first to raise the banners of war where the Protestants who, together with their belief that Henry X was a crypto-catholic (his family having only begrudgingly accepted Protestantism during the reign of Edward VI) and that this line was barely of royal standard, rose in rebellion by the end of 1582. A good chunk of England rose with them under the leadership of the Duke of Bedford and Thomas (the bastard son of the Lady Mary, who had received her title after her death), the latter of whom was was fiercely Protestant and had eloped and married Princess Jane in 1571. The Scottish were led by the young James VI who invaded England to assert his claim as a man of full royal lineage and a direct descendant of Henry VII, while even the Welsh rose up under a pretender alleging to be the illegitimate son of Edward VI. (He died fighting a second pretender, supposedly the illegitimate grandson of Prince Arthur, son of Henry VII). Henry X died in the camp of battle fighting against Thomas, who had by that point taken control of most of the kingdom after allying with his half-aunt. However, although his half-aunt had led a successful campaign in Northumberland she was reviled after unsuccessfully offering to return to Catholicism should Philip II of Spain assist her cause. Henry was succeeded by his son Edward VII.
[5] Edward VII was yet another young monarch, and came to the throne as the War of the Five Kings continued to wrack his kingdom. Thomas remained a major threat, and Edward was forced to withdraw further and further south to prevent military defeat. However, a reprise came in 1587; James VI was able to secure a narrow but significant victory against the Duke of Bedford at the Second Battle of Myton, leaving the north of England vulnerable to his advance. Seeking to claim the initiative Edward prorogued what remained of Parliament (beginning his period of 'Personal Rule') and marched north. The unexpected death of Elizabeth, Queen of Ireland in early-1588 further aided his cause, and by March Edward, Thomas and James (the latter of whom had been skirmishing for almost a year) had converged upon Yorkshire. Edward did not at first seek to engage James, and cited the claim that they were in fact related given the kinship of the Stewarts and the Fitzalans from Alan Fitz Flaad (d. 1120). Lacking a male heir, Edward proposed that his only daughter Eleanor (still a child) marry James and that their kin would be the heirs of both Scotland and England, unifying the two countries and ending the continuous Anglo-Scottish wars diplomatically. However, before any further correspondence Thomas struck first, hoping to use his superior numbers to defeat James and then smash the numerically-inferior forces of Edward. The Battle of Yarm was the final major confrontation of the War of the Five Kings. Although Thomas appeared to have the upper-hand his position was undermined by changeable weather and the premature arrival of Edward, who proceeded to engage his rearguard. It was the most decisive engagement since the Battle of Bosworth Field, barely a century prior, and like then the fate of the nation was decided in the space of a single afternoon.

PS: I have left the death date of Edward blank so that the next poster can decide his destiny following Yarm.

PPS: I deliberately chose Arundel as the name for the royal house rather than Fitzalan, although Fitzalan does have a nice ring to it. Given the Earldom of Arundel had originally been created in 1138 and the Fitzalans had held it since the mid-1200s I figured their name would be synonymous with it - in my opinion Henry could have taken Arundel as his dynastic name to court favour with Parliament given the controversial circumstances of his coronation, and similar in fashion to previous dynasties that took their geographic signifier as their name rather than their familial names. However, after doing some more reading Fitzalan seems just as appropriate, given their origins in England are all the way back in the Norman Conquest. They also have some very intriguing links to the House of Stewart, leading to what I suspect would be some very interesting propaganda during the War of the Five Kings, and I doubt that they would not try to make the most of these connections.

Whait? Did Thomas loose/die in Yarm or is that another thing that the next poster will decide

Also, those Fitzalans seem to be constantly stringing 20s on the dice, since I had made that by the time of his death Henry X had basically offended most of the country he still had by declaring he would return England to Catholicism and was being sustained by foreign troops (and why would Elizabeth try to ally with the Spanish when I said they were actively supporting the Fitzalans?

EDIT: Oh wait I wrote in a way that made it look like Elizabeth had proposed the alliance (because I forgot to place the parentesis on it), shit! I’m going to correct it so it isn’t confusing anymore

(Also, sorry for basically fucking with your post because I forgot to place pontuation on mine, that was shitty of me)

 

[Premier Taylerov]

Oh wait - I wrote in a way that made it look like Elizabeth had proposed the alliance (because I forgot to place the parenthesis on it). I’m going to correct it so it isn’t confusing anymore.

I have to say I was a bit confused, and that was why I killed off Elizabeth (because I was befuddled with what she was doing), gave the Fitzalans another break and staged a three-way battle for England. However, I have now changed the reign of Edward VII quite significantly to bring it up to date with your changes.

(Also, sorry for basically fucking with your post because I forgot to place punctuation on mine, that was shitty of me).

Thanks for the apology, but it's no problem. These things happen!

'The Cold-Hearted Swot'
What if Edward VI lived just long enough to produce an heir?

1547 - 1569: Edward VI (House of Tudor) [1]
1569 - 1576: Stephen II (House of Tudor) [2]
1576 - 1579: Henry IX (House of Fitzalan) [3]
1579 - 1585: Henry X (House of Fitzalan) [4]
1585 - 1585: Edward VII (House of Fitzalan) [5]

[1] The only son and child of Henry VIII and his third wife, Jane Seymour, Edward was one of the youngest monarchs in English history, ascending to the throne at the age of 9, and ruled during the time that its formation as a truly protestant nation occurred, with the Church of England becoming more in line with those of Sweden and Denmark. A sickly man, many said he survived instead of living, suffering from some sort of disease every year of his lifetime, finally dying from tuberculosis, a disease he had lived with for years, at age 31. He also had two half sisters (who were called bastards but had been born as princesses of England in his father's two previous marriages), the ladies Mary and Elizabeth, the first (made Duchess of Bedford after giving birth to a bastard son by a groom six years prior), died of a disease in the bowels at age 45, and the second married Lord Robert Dudley and later was made Duchess of Leinster by her own right, sent in exile to Ireland for some years, she was in many ways responsible for spreading the protestant faith among the Irish nobility and people, even though many did not follow Anglicanism per se, she served as Lord Deputy of Ireland for years for her brother and his successors. Married to Lady Jane Grey in 1554, after his death she served as regent to their son, Stephen II.
[2] Stephen II of England's brief reign was turbulent. His father having passed when he was less than two years old, the noblemen of the realm immediately began jockeying for power. In 1573, after failing to prevent the annexation of Northumberland by the Scots at the behest of Thomas Percy, Queen Jane was removed by a coalition of nobles and replaced with the Earl of Warwick. However, Warwick's government proved to be equally inept and in 1575 he was removed from power after a brief civil war. Stephen took ill and died (not at all related to his new, noble-appointed chef, of course), and without a male successor the selection of a new king was given over to Parliament. Parliament appointed Henry Fitzalan, 12th Earl of Arundel to take the throne.
[3] The election of Henry IX by Parliament was highly controversial, and largely a result of the fractious political infighting throughout the reign of Stephen II. The 12th Earl of Arundel had been a near-permanent fixture in the courts of the Tudor monarchs, and had shrewdly supported the Regency Council of Jane to maintain a strong political position. However, upon the loss of Northumberland and the humiliation of the Earl of Warwick, Henry was courted by his supporters in Parliament as a neutral candidate around which the nobles of England could unite - and his pragmatic ambition played to their demands. Despite being 63 at the time of his coronation, Henry was able to point to an heir (also called Henry, Baron Maltravers, born in 1538), while his two daughters were well-wedded into the heart of the nobility with children of their own. Coming to the throne in 1576, Henry IX was a divisive figure and often unaccepted by those who favoured his rival candidates for the throne. Many of these candidates remained a threat upon his death just three years later in 1579.
[4] While his father's reign was tense with political intrigue and unrest due to the decision of completely set aside all female Tudors (from the lines of Elizabeth and Mary and Princess Jane, Stephen II's older sister), Henry X's was marked by war. The English Civil War (sometimes called the War of the Five Kings) began when Lady Elizabeth, who had been living in Ireland since 1552, declared Irish independence with herself as Queen in 1582 - basically declaring that any authority England had over it was moot after they basically deposed the Tudors. This action by now Queen Elizabeth started a domino effect as all the groups against the new monarchs decided that now was the time to seize the throne for themselves. The first to raise the banners of war where the Protestants who, together with their belief that Henry X was a crypto-catholic (his family having only begrudgingly accepted Protestantism during the reign of Edward VI) and that this line was barely of royal standard, rose in rebellion by the end of 1582. A good chunk of England rose with them under the leadership of the Duke of Bedford and Thomas (the bastard son of the Lady Mary, who had received her title after her death), the latter of whom was was fiercely Protestant and had eloped and married Princess Jane in 1571. The Scottish were led by the young James VI who invaded England to assert his claim as a man of full royal lineage and a direct descendant of Henry VII, while even the Welsh rose up under a pretender alleging to be the illegitimate son of Edward VI. (He died fighting a second pretender, supposedly the illegitimate grandson of Prince Arthur, son of Henry VII). Henry X died in the camp of battle fighting against Thomas, who had by that point taken control of most of the kingdom after allying with his half-aunt. By the time of his death Henry was reviled for rumours that he had (unsuccessfully) proposed to Philip II of Spain to convert to Catholicism should the Habsburgs help him in retaining his English crown, and was succeeded by the short reign of his son Edward VII.
[5] Edward VII, the last of the Fitzalans, came to the throne as any semblance of power slipped from his dynasty's grasp. His father's forces had been decisively defeated by Thomas, and Edward was forced to withdraw further and further south to prevent the obliteration of his few remaining forces. Overtures to Francis II of France also failed, given the ongoing French Wars of Religion, and in late-July Edward was forced to consider drastic options. He wrote to James VI, who was engaged in a protracted campaign against Thomas in the north, citing the claim that they were in fact related given the kinship of the Stewarts and the Fitzalans from Alan Fitz Flaad (d. 1120). Lacking a male heir, Edward proposed that his only daughter Eleanor (still a child) marry James and that their kin would be the heirs of both Scotland and England, unifying the two countries and ending the continuous Anglo-Scottish wars diplomatically. James rebuffed the offer, and moved to engage Thomas directly at the Battle of Yarm (almost a century to the day as the Battle of Bosworth Field). Edward was subsequently killed by rebel mutineers attempting to flee the country from Dartmouth - having been on the throne for less than a year - leading both James and Thomas to declare themselves King prior to their engagement. Although initially favouring the larger force of Thomas, the clash was a narrow one and affected significantly by changeable weather conditions and the difficult conditions to the east around the River Leven. By killing ___________ at the climax of the battle and the subsequent rout, _____________ emerged victorious. With Edward drowned in Devon and the Fitzalan line forced from power, ________ faced no further resistance, and was subsequently coronated in London by the Archbishop of Canterbury - ending the War of the Five Kings.

 

[The_Last_Plantagenet]

'The Cold-Hearted Swot'
What if Edward VI lived just long enough to produce an heir?

1547 - 1569: Edward VI (House of Tudor) [1]
1569 - 1576: Stephen II (House of Tudor) [2]
1576 - 1579: Henry IX (House of Fitzalan) [3]
1579 - 1585: Henry X (House of Fitzalan) [4]
1585 - 1585: Edward VII (House of Fitzalan) [5]
1585 -1601: Thomas I (House of Tudor-Sabaudia) [6]

Spoiler: Edward VI to Edward VII

[1] The only son and child of Henry VIII and his third wife, Jane Seymour, Edward was one of the youngest monarchs in English history, ascending to the throne at the age of 9, and ruled during the time that its formation as a truly protestant nation occurred, with the Church of England becoming more in line with those of Sweden and Denmark. A sickly man, many said he survived instead of living, suffering from some sort of disease every year of his lifetime, finally dying from tuberculosis, a disease he had lived with for years, at age 31. He also had two half sisters (who were called bastards but had been born as princesses of England in his father's two previous marriages), the ladies Mary and Elizabeth, the first (made Duchess of Bedford after giving birth to a bastard son by a groom six years prior), died of a disease in the bowels at age 45, and the second married Lord Robert Dudley and later was made Duchess of Leinster by her own right, sent in exile to Ireland for some years, she was in many ways responsible for spreading the protestant faith among the Irish nobility and people, even though many did not follow Anglicanism per se, she served as Lord Deputy of Ireland for years for her brother and his successors. Married to Lady Jane Grey in 1554, after his death she served as regent to their son, Stephen II.
[2] Stephen II of England's brief reign was turbulent. His father having passed when he was less than two years old, the noblemen of the realm immediately began jockeying for power. In 1573, after failing to prevent the annexation of Northumberland by the Scots at the behest of Thomas Percy, Queen Jane was removed by a coalition of nobles and replaced with the Earl of Warwick. However, Warwick's government proved to be equally inept and in 1575 he was removed from power after a brief civil war. Stephen took ill and died (not at all related to his new, noble-appointed chef, of course), and without a male successor the selection of a new king was given over to Parliament. Parliament appointed Henry Fitzalan, 12th Earl of Arundel to take the throne.
[3] The election of Henry IX by Parliament was highly controversial, and largely a result of the fractious political infighting throughout the reign of Stephen II. The 12th Earl of Arundel had been a near-permanent fixture in the courts of the Tudor monarchs, and had shrewdly supported the Regency Council of Jane to maintain a strong political position. However, upon the loss of Northumberland and the humiliation of the Earl of Warwick, Henry was courted by his supporters in Parliament as a neutral candidate around which the nobles of England could unite - and his pragmatic ambition played to their demands. Despite being 63 at the time of his coronation, Henry was able to point to an heir (also called Henry, Baron Maltravers, born in 1538), while his two daughters were well-wedded into the heart of the nobility with children of their own. Coming to the throne in 1576, Henry IX was a divisive figure and often unaccepted by those who favoured his rival candidates for the throne. Many of these candidates remained a threat upon his death just three years later in 1579.
[4] While his father's reign was tense with political intrigue and unrest due to the decision of completely set aside all female Tudors (from the lines of Elizabeth and Mary and Princess Jane, Stephen II's older sister), Henry X's was marked by war. The English Civil War (sometimes called the War of the Five Kings) began when Lady Elizabeth, who had been living in Ireland since 1552, declared Irish independence with herself as Queen in 1582 - basically declaring that any authority England had over it was moot after they basically deposed the Tudors. This action by now Queen Elizabeth started a domino effect as all the groups against the new monarchs decided that now was the time to seize the throne for themselves. The first to raise the banners of war where the Protestants who, together with their belief that Henry X was a crypto-catholic (his family having only begrudgingly accepted Protestantism during the reign of Edward VI) and that this line was barely of royal standard, rose in rebellion by the end of 1582. A good chunk of England rose with them under the leadership of the Duke of Bedford and Thomas (the bastard son of the Lady Mary, who had received her title after her death), the latter of whom was was fiercely Protestant and had eloped and married Princess Jane in 1571. The Scottish were led by the young James VI who invaded England to assert his claim as a man of full royal lineage and a direct descendant of Henry VII, while even the Welsh rose up under a pretender alleging to be the illegitimate son of Edward VI. (He died fighting a second pretender, supposedly the illegitimate grandson of Prince Arthur, son of Henry VII). Henry X died in the camp of battle fighting against Thomas, who had by that point taken control of most of the kingdom after allying with his half-aunt. By the time of his death Henry was reviled for rumours that he had (unsuccessfully) proposed to Philip II of Spain to convert to Catholicism should the Habsburgs help him in retaining his English crown, and was succeeded by the short reign of his son Edward VII.
[5] Edward VII, the last of the Fitzalans, came to the throne as any semblance of power slipped from his dynasty's grasp. His father's forces had been decisively defeated by Thomas, and Edward was forced to withdraw further and further south to prevent the obliteration of his few remaining forces. Overtures to Francis II of France also failed, given the ongoing French Wars of Religion, and in late-July Edward was forced to consider drastic options. He wrote to James VI, who was engaged in a protracted campaign against Thomas in the north, citing the claim that they were in fact related given the kinship of the Stewarts and the Fitzalans from Alan Fitz Flaad (d. 1120). Lacking a male heir, Edward proposed that his only daughter Eleanor (still a child) marry James and that their kin would be the heirs of both Scotland and England, unifying the two countries and ending the continuous Anglo-Scottish wars diplomatically. James rebuffed the offer, and moved to engage Thomas directly at the Battle of Yarm (almost a century to the day as the Battle of Bosworth Field). Edward was subsequently killed by rebel mutineers attempting to flee the country from Dartmouth - having been on the throne for less than a year - leading both James and Thomas to declare themselves King prior to their engagement. Although initially favouring the larger force of Thomas, the clash was a narrow one and affected significantly by changeable weather conditions and the difficult conditions to the east around the River Leven. By killing James at the climax of the battle and the subsequent rout, Thomas emerged victorious. With Edward drowned in Devon and the Fitzalan line forced from power, Thomas de Sabaudia faced no further resistance, and was subsequently coronated in London by the Archbishop of Canterbury - ending the War of the Five Kings.

​

[6] Thomas was not born to greatness, being the result of a short lived romance between the unmarried Princess Mary of England, and Emanuele Tomasso de Sabaudia; the illegitimate son of Carlo III, Duke of Savoy, and a serving officer of the English court. The young bastard was born in 1540, six years before his grandfather; Henry VIIIs death, and the crowning of his uncle; Edward VII. By the death of his cousin; Stephen II, Thomas de Sabaudia saw himself as the sole remaining heir, and the rightful King of England.
With his mothers title; Duke of Bedford, Thomas took a healthy annuity from the Fitzalan Kings, and despite his ties to the English throne, he would go to the continent where he made his name known as a reputable mercenary in the service of Italian dukes, the Spanish crown, and even the King of Poland.

With the victory of the War of the English Succession, otherwise known as the War of the Five Kings, Thomas secured his right and the throne. Much of the early years of his rule was spent on clearing the rebel groups, and bringing the heavy hammer of order upon those nobles who had supported the other claimants. By 1593, the purge had been completed, and the nickname “the Bloody” had been attached to the memory of Thomas I. After the death of his wife; Jane Fitzalan, Thomas would married Catherine of Portugal in 1588. The Catholic Catherine was seen as a poor choice, but the prospect of restoring the Anglo-Portuguese alliance proved right. Their union was short but fruitful, with two sons and a daughter being born before her death in 1597.

With his rule stable in England, Thomas would turn his sights to the lost Kingdom of Ireland, and despite the loyalties to Elizabeth of Leinster, the Irish armies could not withstand the English onslaught, and by 1598, English rule was reinstated, at least within the Pale.

The last years of Thomas Is life were spent in relative opulence, with the palaces of England being some of the greatest and wealthiest in Europe. He would pass in 1601, and the throne would pass to ________

 

[Peppe]

'The Cold-Hearted Swot'
What if Edward VI lived just long enough to produce an heir?

1547 - 1569: Edward VI (House of Tudor) [1]
1569 - 1576: Stephen II (House of Tudor) [2]
1576 - 1579: Henry IX (House of Fitzalan) [3]
1579 - 1585: Henry X (House of Fitzalan) [4]
1585 - 1585: Edward VII (House of Fitzalan) [5]
1585 -1601: Thomas I (House of Tudor-Sabaudia) [6]

Spoiler: Edward VI to Edward VII

[1] The only son and child of Henry VIII and his third wife, Jane Seymour, Edward was one of the youngest monarchs in English history, ascending to the throne at the age of 9, and ruled during the time that its formation as a truly protestant nation occurred, with the Church of England becoming more in line with those of Sweden and Denmark. A sickly man, many said he survived instead of living, suffering from some sort of disease every year of his lifetime, finally dying from tuberculosis, a disease he had lived with for years, at age 31. He also had two half sisters (who were called bastards but had been born as princesses of England in his father's two previous marriages), the ladies Mary and Elizabeth, the first (made Duchess of Bedford after giving birth to a bastard son by a groom six years prior), died of a disease in the bowels at age 45, and the second married Lord Robert Dudley and later was made Duchess of Leinster by her own right, sent in exile to Ireland for some years, she was in many ways responsible for spreading the protestant faith among the Irish nobility and people, even though many did not follow Anglicanism per se, she served as Lord Deputy of Ireland for years for her brother and his successors. Married to Lady Jane Grey in 1554, after his death she served as regent to their son, Stephen II.
[2] Stephen II of England's brief reign was turbulent. His father having passed when he was less than two years old, the noblemen of the realm immediately began jockeying for power. In 1573, after failing to prevent the annexation of Northumberland by the Scots at the behest of Thomas Percy, Queen Jane was removed by a coalition of nobles and replaced with the Earl of Warwick. However, Warwick's government proved to be equally inept and in 1575 he was removed from power after a brief civil war. Stephen took ill and died (not at all related to his new, noble-appointed chef, of course), and without a male successor the selection of a new king was given over to Parliament. Parliament appointed Henry Fitzalan, 12th Earl of Arundel to take the throne.
[3] The election of Henry IX by Parliament was highly controversial, and largely a result of the fractious political infighting throughout the reign of Stephen II. The 12th Earl of Arundel had been a near-permanent fixture in the courts of the Tudor monarchs, and had shrewdly supported the Regency Council of Jane to maintain a strong political position. However, upon the loss of Northumberland and the humiliation of the Earl of Warwick, Henry was courted by his supporters in Parliament as a neutral candidate around which the nobles of England could unite - and his pragmatic ambition played to their demands. Despite being 63 at the time of his coronation, Henry was able to point to an heir (also called Henry, Baron Maltravers, born in 1538), while his two daughters were well-wedded into the heart of the nobility with children of their own. Coming to the throne in 1576, Henry IX was a divisive figure and often unaccepted by those who favoured his rival candidates for the throne. Many of these candidates remained a threat upon his death just three years later in 1579.
[4] While his father's reign was tense with political intrigue and unrest due to the decision of completely set aside all female Tudors (from the lines of Elizabeth and Mary and Princess Jane, Stephen II's older sister), Henry X's was marked by war. The English Civil War (sometimes called the War of the Five Kings) began when Lady Elizabeth, who had been living in Ireland since 1552, declared Irish independence with herself as Queen in 1582 - basically declaring that any authority England had over it was moot after they basically deposed the Tudors. This action by now Queen Elizabeth started a domino effect as all the groups against the new monarchs decided that now was the time to seize the throne for themselves. The first to raise the banners of war where the Protestants who, together with their belief that Henry X was a crypto-catholic (his family having only begrudgingly accepted Protestantism during the reign of Edward VI) and that this line was barely of royal standard, rose in rebellion by the end of 1582. A good chunk of England rose with them under the leadership of the Duke of Bedford and Thomas (the bastard son of the Lady Mary, who had received her title after her death), the latter of whom was was fiercely Protestant and had eloped and married Princess Jane in 1571. The Scottish were led by the young James VI who invaded England to assert his claim as a man of full royal lineage and a direct descendant of Henry VII, while even the Welsh rose up under a pretender alleging to be the illegitimate son of Edward VI. (He died fighting a second pretender, supposedly the illegitimate grandson of Prince Arthur, son of Henry VII). Henry X died in the camp of battle fighting against Thomas, who had by that point taken control of most of the kingdom after allying with his half-aunt. By the time of his death Henry was reviled for rumours that he had (unsuccessfully) proposed to Philip II of Spain to convert to Catholicism should the Habsburgs help him in retaining his English crown, and was succeeded by the short reign of his son Edward VII.
[5] Edward VII, the last of the Fitzalans, came to the throne as any semblance of power slipped from his dynasty's grasp. His father's forces had been decisively defeated by Thomas, and Edward was forced to withdraw further and further south to prevent the obliteration of his few remaining forces. Overtures to Francis II of France also failed, given the ongoing French Wars of Religion, and in late-July Edward was forced to consider drastic options. He wrote to James VI, who was engaged in a protracted campaign against Thomas in the north, citing the claim that they were in fact related given the kinship of the Stewarts and the Fitzalans from Alan Fitz Flaad (d. 1120). Lacking a male heir, Edward proposed that his only daughter Eleanor (still a child) marry James and that their kin would be the heirs of both Scotland and England, unifying the two countries and ending the continuous Anglo-Scottish wars diplomatically. James rebuffed the offer, and moved to engage Thomas directly at the Battle of Yarm (almost a century to the day as the Battle of Bosworth Field). Edward was subsequently killed by rebel mutineers attempting to flee the country from Dartmouth - having been on the throne for less than a year - leading both James and Thomas to declare themselves King prior to their engagement. Although initially favouring the larger force of Thomas, the clash was a narrow one and affected significantly by changeable weather conditions and the difficult conditions to the east around the River Leven. By killing James at the climax of the battle and the subsequent rout, Thomas emerged victorious. With Edward drowned in Devon and the Fitzalan line forced from power, Thomas de Sabaudia faced no further resistance, and was subsequently coronated in London by the Archbishop of Canterbury - ending the War of the Five Kings.

​

[6] Thomas was not born to greatness, being the result of a short lived romance between the unmarried Princess Mary of England, and Emanuele Tomasso de Sabaudia; the illegitimate son of Carlo III, Duke of Savoy, and a serving officer of the English court. The young bastard was born in 1540, six years before his grandfather; Henry VIIIs death, and the crowning of his uncle; Edward VII. By the death of his cousin; Stephen II, Thomas de Sabaudia saw himself as the sole remaining heir, and the rightful King of England.
With his mothers title; Duke of Bedford, Thomas took a healthy annuity from the Fitzalan Kings, and despite his ties to the English throne, he would go to the continent where he made his name known as a reputable mercenary in the service of Italian dukes, the Spanish crown, and even the King of Poland.

With the victory of the War of the English Succession, otherwise known as the War of the Five Kings, Thomas secured his right and the throne. Much of the early years of his rule was spent on clearing the rebel groups, and bringing the heavy hammer of order upon those nobles who had supported the other claimants. By 1593, the purge had been completed, and the nickname “the Bloody” had been attached to the memory of Thomas I.

Another contentious issue during his reign was religion. While the Fitzalans had been accused of crypto-Catholicism, Thomas was openly a Papist, and drew further ire from the Protestant nobles. Once again, England was under a catholic monarch. Thomas had married Catherine of Portugal in 1563. Thomas was seen as an ill suited husband for such a royal bride, but Catherine was smitten and would not hear a word of it. Their union was long and fruitful, with two sons and a daughter being born before her death in 1597.

With his rule stable in England, Thomas would turn his sights to the lost Kingdom of Ireland, and despite the loyalties to Elizabeth of Leinster, the Irish armies could not withstand the English onslaught, and by 1598, English rule was reinstated, at least within the Pale.

The last years of Thomas Is life were spent in relative opulence, with the palaces of England being some of the greatest and wealthiest in Europe. He would pass in 1601, and the throne would pass to ________

I said he was a Protestant to the level of being a pseudo-puritan (and born during the reign of Edward by an unknown father, with Mary dying when he was six), that was exactly the reason why he managed to get a large support (that and being the second husband of Edward VIs daughter)

 

[The_Last_Plantagenet]

I said he was a Protestant to the level of being a pseudo-puritan (and born during the reign of Edward by an unknown father, with Mary dying when he was six), that was exactly the reason why he managed to get a large support (that and being the second husband of Edward VIs daughter)

I’ll change his religion then

 

[Jonathan]

I’ll change his religion then

I’ll claim once changed.

 

[The_Last_Plantagenet]

I’ll claim once changed.

Done. He’s a Protestant once again

 

[Peppe]

I’ll change his religion then

Done. He’s a Protestant once again

Also, why did he reconquer Ireland when his aunt, who ruled it, allied with him so he could get his throne? (And when did Jane die so he could marry a Portuguese?)

 

[Jonathan]

And why did he reconquistar Ireland when his aunt, who ruled it, allied with him so he could get his throne?

If @The_Last_Plantagenet takes out the part of Irish war I have a good idea for this.

 

[The_Last_Plantagenet]

Also, why did he reconquer Ireland when his aunt, who ruled it, allied with him so he could get his throne? (And when did Jane die so he could marry a Portuguese?)

To restore the English kingdom to its full territory? That’s not a hard one.
And I thought it was someone else who married Jane, I’ll add that in.

 

[Peppe]

To restore the English kingdom to its full territory? That’s not a hard one.
And I thought it was someone else who married Jane, I’ll add that in.

I just think he would be more focused on dealing with the internal issues of England instead of invading a loyal ally

 

[The_Last_Plantagenet]

I just think he would be more focused on dealing with the internal issues of England instead of invading a loyal ally

I did say that he dealt with the nobles who opposed him and such, so I don’t see what the issue is.

 

[Peppe]

I did say that he dealt with the nobles who opposed him and such, so I don’t see what the issue is.

I think I was just hoping for an independent Ireland that remained tied to England through dynastic relations and religion (seeing as it is became Protestant during the previous decades)

 

[The_Last_Plantagenet]

I think I was just hoping for an independent Ireland that remained tied to England through dynastic relations and religion (seeing as it is became Protestant during the previous decades)

I do understand that, but I personally see a independent medieval Ireland as very unlikely.
It would rapidly become a puppet of one of the Maritime powers, it’s economy is weak and there was basically no government institutions before Henry VIII made the Lordship into a Kingdom. I just see it as unlikely

 

[Jonathan]

I do understand that, but I personally see a independent medieval Ireland as very unlikely.
It would rapidly become a puppet of one of the Maritime powers, it’s economy is weak and there was basically no government institutions before Henry VIII made the Lordship into a Kingdom. I just see it as unlikely

What about a marriage union rather than an invasion?
Are we ready for the next king of England?