WI - Buddhist India

[Sarthak]

If China, Iran and Rome could unify, why not India ?

Geopolitics, geopolitics! Rome played the divide and conquer route so expertly I am sure Britain in history class was like "WRITE THAT DOWN! WRITE THAT DOWN!"
Persia, is much more complex, shared identity, yet different culture, intrigue, alliances, unions etc.
China was virtually united after the Yangtze River Civilization anyways so that was moot point; they had no racial differences yet were divided for a long time as well fracturing, that paints how geo-politics works, because even states that speak the same language (not like diverse india), share the same race (not like Burmese/Indo-Aryan/Dravidian India) could be fractured so many times, it goes without saying, unifying India is going to be very very very hard.

 

[Sarthak]

also Rome only unified italy aka Latin Peninsula back then, they conquered the rest.

 

[Brahman]

Sarthak Bikram Panta
I could see something similar happen here, Where Parts of Nepal, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and Bengal are united into one state that slowly conquers rest of Subcontinent

 

[Sarthak]

Sarthak Bikram Panta
I could see something similar happen here, Where Parts of Nepal, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and Bengal are united into one state that slowly conquers rest of Subcontinent

Eh no. Nepal could unify all the Nepali tribes, Sikkim, Kumaon and Bhutan but more than that none of the Nepali leaders had any interest in anything else in India. After all those aforementioned lands, Nepal was already eying up Tibet. Nepal lost in 1792 against the Chinese because the Chinese were pretty stable then and defended Tibet, but Nepal won in 1846 because China.....was erm experiencing post-Opium war drama. But since the British were like "don't you dare annex all of tibet" Nepal took some borderlands, all of the bounty and war reparations, made Tibet and China give heavy concessions to Nepalese merchants and went back.
Bengal if it can unify early would be a strong powerblock in the area, and that is possible. A kingdom in Uttar Pradesh is the likely one to unify the North Indian states as the Mauryas, Guptas were generally from that area.

 

[Brahman]

Eh no. Nepal could unify all the Nepali tribes, Sikkim, Kumaon and Bhutan but more than that none of the Nepali leaders had any interest in anything else in India. After all those aforementioned lands, Nepal was already eying up Tibet. Nepal lost in 1792 against the Chinese because the Chinese were pretty stable then and defended Tibet, but Nepal won in 1846 because China.....was erm experiencing post-Opium war drama. But since the British were like "don't you dare annex all of tibet" Nepal took some borderlands, all of the bounty and war reparations, made Tibet and China give heavy concessions to Nepalese merchants and went back.
Bengal if it can unify early would be a strong powerblock in the area, and that is possible. A kingdom in Uttar Pradesh is the likely one to unify the North Indian states as the Mauryas, Guptas were generally from that area.

While I agree with this, we are talking about Nepal states in the Immediate aftermath of Buddha's enlightenment and Death, we could see it being more focused on Regions were Buddha went, Like Sarnath and Bodh Gaya, to gain more legitimacy as well as conquer it, same could be said for Buddhist Kingdoms that might Arise in Bengal Or Uttar Pradesh, who might slowly but surely conquer India like Rome did to Mediterranean

 

[Sarthak]

While I agree with this, we are talking about Nepal states in the Immediate aftermath of Buddha's enlightenment and Death, we could see it being more focused on Regions were Buddha went, Like Sarnath and Bodh Gaya, to gain more legitimacy as well as conquer it, same could be said for Buddhist Kingdoms that might Arise in Bengal Or Uttar Pradesh, who might slowly but surely conquer India like Rome did to Mediterranean

If Nepal goes like OTL and the Shakyas dont gain power, pretty much what i said will happen. If the Shakyas do, that's a whole another city. And it is plausible in a world where Buddha is 100x popular. But if the Shakya's gain the throne of the Nepala Mandala, yeah, people are going to want to conquer Bodh Gaya.

 

[Brahman]

If Nepal goes like OTL and the Shakyas dont gain power, pretty much what i said will happen. If the Shakyas do, that's a whole another city. And it is plausible in a world where Buddha is 100x popular. But if the Shakya's gain the throne of the Nepala Mandala, yeah, people are going to want to conquer Bodh Gaya.

Which is what I was imagining in a roundabout way

 

[Sarthak]

Which is what I was imagining in a roundabout way

But really Bodh Gaya is going to be a place of contention between all the Buddhist Powers. Nepala Mandala is not going to be a unique country in that aspect.

 

[Brahman]

But really Bodh Gaya is going to be a place of contention between all the Buddhist Powers. Nepala Mandala is not going to be a unique country in that aspect.

Yes, whoever conquered Bodh Gaya has religious legitimacy

 

[Sarthak]

Yes, whoever conquered Bodh Gaya has religious legitimacy

Yeah, it will be like the Indian version of Jerusalem.
I wonder how seafaring tradition will change with buddhism?

 

[Brahman]

Yeah, it will be like the Indian version of Jerusalem.
I wonder how seafaring tradition will change with buddhism?

perhaps it would become the religion of trade, with merchants and traders being Buddhists mixed with traditional religion

 

[Beacon]

Eh no. Nepal could unify all the Nepali tribes, Sikkim, Kumaon and Bhutan but more than that none of the Nepali leaders had any interest in anything else in India. After all those aforementioned lands, Nepal was already eying up Tibet. Nepal lost in 1792 against the Chinese because the Chinese were pretty stable then and defended Tibet, but Nepal won in 1846 because China.....was erm experiencing post-Opium war drama. But since the British were like "don't you dare annex all of tibet" Nepal took some borderlands, all of the bounty and war reparations, made Tibet and China give heavy concessions to Nepalese merchants and went back.
Bengal if it can unify early would be a strong powerblock in the area, and that is possible. A kingdom in Uttar Pradesh is the likely one to unify the North Indian states as the Mauryas, Guptas were generally from that area.

Kinda OT but -
What would have happened if Nepal completely took over Tibet? Either Britain cannot or does not interfere in that war. Would be interesting to see stronger Nepal with Tibetan influences. I think many indian revolutionaries would seek asylum there and also understand the history of Indian buddhism. This in turn would affect many of the revolutionaries.

I mainly want to see this just to have Gandhi interact with the Dalai Lama tbh

 

[Sarthak]

What would have happened if Nepal completely took over Tibet? Either Britain cannot or does not interfere in that war. Would be interesting to see stronger Nepal with Tibetan influences. I think many indian revolutionaries would seek asylum there and also understand the history of Indian buddhism. This in turn would affect many of the revolutionaries.

Considering Nepal already has a lot of Tibetan influences, they would be much more pronounced OTL. Also i don't think Tibetan would be butchered as a language OTL. As long as you were bilingual with Nepal, and paid your taxes and did not revolt, the government of Nepal didn't care if you spoke Martian or Saturnese. Also since Nepal was a British Ally and except for around the Sikhs and Rajputs put down the 1857 rebellion on their own with British supervision and did not allow Indian revolutionaries to enter Nepal OTL, i don't know how that's gonna change

 

[Emperor Gustavus Adolphus]

Big difference here would be that Buddhism would also be in Arabian peninsula when Islam is born, as such it would be eady tonassume just like Christianity and Judaism, Buddhism would have also influenced Islam, as such Buddha would also be a prophet like christ, and we could see things like meditation and internal improvement as a bigger part in Islam

Not exactly.....islam doesnt work that way. Allah is the only god. The only thing they may attribute is Buddha is an enlightened man but they wouldn't denote him as a prophet because in their opinion, that would be insulting.
Though Muslims were (generally) soft towards buddhism.

I doubt if Islam as OTL or even say, Christianity, will exist if Buddhism spread that far. I would expect tribal people to convert more rapidly to Buddhism if it reached Arabian Peninsula from the united Buddhist subcontinent.

Plus, a Kushan Buddhist India exercising influence and power over Central Asia and the Steppe would mean Huns and Persia are fully altered. There is probably no Sassanid Empire and Roman Empire would be totally different. Islam wouldn't exist, at all.

I want you to know that the butterflies you are talking about are massive and to the scale of an entire continent of Asia. The POD has diverged too wide by now.

 

[Sarthak]

I doubt if Islam as OTL or even say, Christianity, will exist if Buddhism spread that far. I would expect tribal people to convert more rapidly to Buddhism if it reached Arabian Peninsula from the united Buddhist subcontinent.

Plus, a Kushan Buddhist India exercising influence and power over Central Asia and the Steppe would mean Huns and Persia are fully altered. There is probably no Sassanid Empire and Roman Empire would be totally different. Islam wouldn't exist, at all.

I want you to know that the butterflies you are talking about are massive and to the scale of an entire continent of Asia. The POD has diverged too wide by now.

Yeah the butterflies are very big

 

[Brahman]

I doubt if Islam as OTL or even say, Christianity, will exist if Buddhism spread that far. I would expect tribal people to convert more rapidly to Buddhism if it reached Arabian Peninsula from the united Buddhist subcontinent.

Plus, a Kushan Buddhist India exercising influence and power over Central Asia and the Steppe would mean Huns and Persia are fully altered. There is probably no Sassanid Empire and Roman Empire would be totally different. Islam wouldn't exist, at all.

I want you to know that the butterflies you are talking about are massive and to the scale of an entire continent of Asia. The POD has diverged too wide by now.

Yes, that is true, Buddhism can easily synthesize with the tribal religions of Central Asian Steppe, Huns could actually become Buddhists and invade Roman empire like OTL, this might lead to buddhism being seen as an enemy to Rome

Christianity would exist, but will have heavy Buddhist influence, in OTL, there are claims that Jesus was a Buddhist monk and he died in Kashmir, India, it could be more pronounced ITTL

 

[Brahman]

By the time Buddhism spread to Centeal Asian tribes, Conditions for Christianity would be there as such we could still Christianity to be there, Unless Ptolemy Egypt becomes Buddhist, Christianity will emerge

 

[Brahman]

Could anyone imagine Huns practicing Greco Bactrian form of buddhism and attacking Rome, The Romans will surely be comfused on why Greek gods are protecting these Buddha guy and why are Huns Greek god worshippers

 

[Sarthak]

Could anyone imagine Huns practicing Greco Bactrian form of buddhism and attacking Rome, The Romans will surely be comfused on why Greek gods are protecting these Buddha guy and why are Huns Greek god worshippers

that would be funny

 

[Brahman]

that would be funny

It would confuse them, they might even send parties to learn about this religion ?