@TheWanderingReader: I didn’t think there was any realistic way for Roman Caribbean slavery to not transform into the typical Caribbean-style slavery. The same climatological and economic forces are at play in the Roman Caribbean.
I want TTL to feel like real history, and in real history peoples and polities are usually some shade of gray, with both good and bad parts (although certainly one can be more dominant). So Rhomania has its good points, but also its bad points. And I don’t think it’s fair to shy away from the latter.
@RogueTraderEnthusiast: Free trade is anathema to the Romans, to the point that proposing it is borderline heresy, arguably treasonous, such is their hatred for it. To the Romans, it immediately brings to mind the Italians, especially the Venetians, and their conduct in Rhomania in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. It is blamed for so many Roman ills for that time period. IOTL Ioannes III Doukas Vatatzes, Emperor of Nicaea and father of Theodoros II Laskaris, passed laws to restrict his subjects trading with Italians to encourage domestic manufactures. That became a part of the Nicaea Laskarid reforms ITTL and has been an important part of Roman ideology ever since.
So no Roman government is going to tolerate free trade that crosses the Imperial frontier (inside the Empire is a different manner), and any Roman official that proposed it would be sacked on the spot. There are adjustments to tariffs on various goods and services and “most-favored-nation” rates granted to allies and friends, but there is always at least a token tariff.
Pirate port is an interesting idea; that’s how the English defended Jamaica in its early years as an English colony. But pirates are hard to control, and could hamper Roman diplomacy. Plus if Rhomania-in-the-West is annoying enough, a Latin state might decide to seize it anyway. Its defense really rests on the principle that the Romans can beat on the aggressor in another field and force it to return the islands in exchange for making them stop. But that’s not the best guarantee for defense as it is indirect.
@Curtain Jerker: Yeah, once I decided there was going to be a Roman Caribbean holding, I knew it was going to turn into this.
The risk there is that a too-powerful Java might turn into a Neo-Majapahit which would be really bad for Roman interests. A Neo-Majapahit is not going to tolerate the Roman Katepanates on its turf.
@Christian: Still very much a thing. The Patriarchs are very important in Roman society, and strong ones can push back at Imperial policy from time to time, but the Basileus is in charge at the end of the day.
Egyptians and Indians rate highly on the civilizationism scale. Living in cities supported by agriculture with a written culture are extremely important features of civilizationism. There is recognition that peoples’ place on the scale can shift over time, whether up or down.
@Frame: Thank you for your support. It’s greatly appreciated.
@Albert Blake: Aborigines doing their thing across most of the continent, with primitive Chinese villages that are the remains of Wu civilization around Xi Wang (OTL Sydney). Romans might get an interest in the place later on, although right now there’s more than enough action in Island Asia to keep them busy.
If you’re referring to Australia, I think the Wu remnant could gradually form a new sophisticated civilization if given the time. Whether it would do so before something equivalent to the First Fleet showed up is a different matter.
If you’re referring to the east in general, there are lots of sophisticated polities already extant.
@UoBLoyalist: This is the first time I’ve used the term ITTL. As a broad scope it refers to the ethnic cleansing of Sunnis, although ITTL it often refers to a specific event that hasn’t happened yet.
@floppy_seal99: Now that’s an idea. The Shimazu were overlords of the Ryukyu kingdom before they became Emperors of Japan, but since becoming Emperors they’ve had to focus their strength on solidifying their control over the Japanese islands. They haven’t had the surplus to be sending out expeditions.
I wanted to make a brief point on seeing your bit about “major bonus points with Rhomania and Russia”. The Japanese see themselves as every bit the equal of the Romans. The Roman Emperor is the Emperor of the Setting Sun and the Japanese Emperor is the Emperor of the Rising Sun. (The Japanese tried to get this equality of Imperial titles with China IOTL and ITTL and both times were told by the Chinese to pound sand. The success story of Japanese Orthodoxy ITTL was dependent on Demetrios II not putting up any fuss and accepting that equality of status.) Rhomania can act as big brother to the Orthodox kingdoms of the West, but not with the Japanese, and they insist on it.
@Evilprodigy: Pretty much. Shimazu strength has been needed at home to keep and secure their hold over Japan, which still isn’t that old.
Glad you’re enjoying them. I had a list going of things I wanted to cover and now seemed like a good time to cover them with a break in the narrative.
I have or will shortly cover all the ones I had on the list, but I’ll take suggestions. If they intrigue or interest me I might run with them; I believe it was a comment you made a while back that inspired this whole series on minorities.
@HanEmpire: I think if the Koreans were sending trade expeditions as far as Taiwan, they’d just keep going a little further and set up shop in Pyrgos. That’s where the Mexican silver galleons and Roman spice haulers dock; there’s nothing comparable in Taiwan.
I’ve got some stuff planned so won’t say here but TTL Korea will be a different beast from OTL.
@Iskandar Khayon: Thank you. It certainly will be a doozy when it gets here, that I promise.
@Βοανηργές: After serving their term, they’d be free, although if they stayed on as tenant farmers of government land their purely economic status wouldn’t change. For those in the military, they could rise in rank provided they have the necessary qualifications, including sufficient Roman-ness.
This is the first mention of the issues regarding Korea.
@CV12Hornet: Obviously I’m a Byzantophile, hence the TL, but I do want to keep a balanced view of the TTL Roman Empire.
@Imperial Inkstand-filler: This is an area where the “if Latins do it, we don’t” comes and makes the Romans look bad, the reverse of the race-based discrimination situation where Romans look down on it because “racism is what Latins do”. If Latin abolitionists tried to pull something like the OTL British slave patrols off the coast of Africa and ended up seizing and impounding Roman slavers, the resulting anti-Latin backlash would strengthen the support for slavery in Rhomania.
@Cryostorm: Yeah, I think an accurate Roman Hetalia character should have PTSD. They’ve lived through it all, but they’ve seen and endured too much to have come through unscathed.
@minifidel: Especially once it’s just the house slaves in the heartland, whose economic conditions don’t look too bad compared to unskilled landless laborers living hand-to-mouth, it’s not going to excite much passion.
@TheCataphract: Caribbean slavery would probably be abolished in an announcement like this: “The Romans of the west, isolated far from the homeland and surrounded by far more numerous Latins, unfortunately instituted the Latin model of slavery. This is a most cruel and heinous institution, devoid of humanity and Christian virtue, although that is unsurprising considering who originated it. This Latinizing tumor shall now be removed from the Roman body politic.”
I agree with you that once steamships become a regular item Constantinople would be better able and willing to force compliance on Rhomania-in-the-West. But in the days of sailing ships it’s so far away and not that important, so it’s easiest to just ignore the blood and take the sugar money. Not right, but easy.
@JSC: Yeah, Roman slavery will be extended by any outside Latin abolitionist pressure, solely on the grounds of sticking it to those annoying Latins. The Romans can be petty too.
The Malay-Romans and the like will be very significant going forward. The willingness of the Roman government to accept them as Romans, as you pointed out, makes a very big difference. OOC, the Despotates were created to provide a model to give various people autonomy while still keeping them within the Roman umbrella, a ‘Federal Empire’ if you will.
@Sceonn: Mainly because it’s simply ‘out of sight, out of mind’. Most Romans couldn’t find St Giorgios on a map if their life depended on it. There will be the occasional slaver whose exceptional brutality gets the attention of the Roman government and is punished, but these examples don’t do anything to resolve the underlying institution.
Plus any black official wouldn’t feel any solidarity with the slaves; there was no African solidarity at this point IOTL. Leaving aside the Roman-ness, all the Sudanese slaves in the heartland came from East Africa while those in Rhomania-in-the-West come from West Africa.
@PlayerOne: It could be called that, although it’s a pale shadow of the far more glorious Eastern Roman Empire.
@Donald Reaver: Fluency may have a lower standard than it does in modern times. After all, the standard for literacy at this point is being able to sign one’s name rather than just making an X (this is from OTL).
Also what is registered as fluent is tied to social status of the speaker. A Malay laborer would only be expected to speak Greek at a level commensurate with that of a Greek laborer; nobody would be expecting him to talk about the fine points of philosophy. An upper-class Malay, on the other hand, would be expected to have an ‘upper-class’ level knowledge of Greek to be considered fluent.