Well, the end result is the same - utter defeat for the Germans - but in Sealion it happens a lot faster.
Operation Sea Lion (1974 Sandhurst Wargame)
- Thread starter Not James Stockdale
- Start date
Well, the end result is the same - utter defeat for the Germans - but in Sealion it happens a lot faster.
Even better, set up some field kitchens and some big fans, blow the smell of frying sausages and onions towards the German lines.
hipper
Banned
the 6th army had thousands of tonnes of supplies accumulated over months while they besieged Stalingrad. Sealion has the remnants of the troops landed on day one with whatever supplies they can salvage from the wreck of the invasion fleet.
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Of course.
The plans for a night time parachute drop onto an island the size of my living room four miles off the Royal Navy's largest and oldest base were a work of art. The RAF wouldn't be able to interfere because it was in the Channel you see (no, shush and listen) and the Army wouldn't move in to quickly wipe out any Germans survivors because they'd have to be held in reserve in case there was an invasion of the UK (really, shush). There would be a diversionary invasion of Iceland (the island, not the supermarket) in order to split the Kriegsmarine's miniscule resources along with other diversionary raids on eastern England, obvs, because facing the entirety of the RN Home Fleet with the whole KM "fleet" was deemed to be just too easy (stop laughing). The fact that the entire island could be hit by RN guns while the ships were still tied up in Portsmouth harbour wasn't an issue because the Luftwaffe would be able to destroy the fleet at anchor and Fighter Command wouldn't be able to do a thing to stop them (stop asking awkward questions about why they didn't do that in 1940 if it was so easy).
It was by far Glenn's finest hour. I still occasionally think about it and giggle.
RodentRevolution
Banned
To be fair Robert Forczyk proposed it first and even sold a book on the idea to gullible idiots. It, for reasons so admirably encapsulated by Mike D above, made no sense and would not remotely have worked but it started so many internet bonfires of stupid ideas.
Derek Pullem
Donor
Can the person to post on page 100 please ask the Ursine one to close the thread.......
You mean you don't like going round and round in circles, discussing the same, tired old points again and again? Oh wait.. I think that's pretty much everyone. Our Wehraboo knows what he's talking about but it still seems like he's trolling or fishing for people to have a go at him and then get suspended at this point.
Yes, I'd like to propose that we do an agreed, standard response that we post in reply to anything and everything he ever posts again on the topic, basically asking that he answer several points and actually address them - preferably conceding where he was shown conclusively to be talking absolute nonsense, or otherwise making a solid argument as to why it wasn't (good luck). In this way if he wants to discuss the topic he will be expected to do so in good faith because he's certainly not doing that now.
Derek Pullem
Donor
Does @Glenn239 have a grasp of military history - yes. Is it always used in a relevant way to the question at hand - not in my opinion. And why the "if only Germany had not invaded Russia they might have won the Second World War" idea is still getting any air time I have no idea. But as for Sea Lion - if there isn't anything new then surely we don't have to keep on regurgitating the same facts and information every few weeks. Can't the "conspiracy theory" rule kick in here - unless there is a dramatic change in the available forces, or in the political actors, then Sea Lion is going to fail.
Still allows us to discuss how badly it fails.
True but you'll get the same 'ol suspects bringing up the same of wanktastic fantasies and the same silly arguments, as always seems to happen.
To paraphrase Dany
"Sealion, Wightlion, Frisian, Gibraltar falling to Nazi's, round and round they go, each idea facepalming the next."
"Its a beautiful dream...to stop the Wehraboo's and their hairsplitting."
"I don't want to stop their fantasies, I want to break them."
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I don't agree this has been demonstrated by his posts on the subject. He frequently posts arguments that demonstrate a lack of understanding of military realities. It seems he's selectively and superficially researching on the go, just looking for evidence to support his existing views.
RodentRevolution
Banned
Yes but that still serves a purpose. Most of us, I suspect, grew up being taught at school that if the RAF lost the BoB then the German invasion totally would have succeeded. Learning why little things like actually needing a navy to launch sea borne invasions and actually having a merchant marine matter and actually having a dedicated set of folks to handle the little unglamorous things like cross beach supply and how much work people actually did put into, say, stopping an invasion are all useful.
How many aerial mines are available? And again, bombers dropping mines are not attacking ships or airfields. You can't be everywhere at once...
Oh indeed, but there's only so many points you can sit there listeing to someone gibbering on about how Der uberflak 88 and Ubermensch manning them will fend off RN DD's with zero casualties. I've looked back through the Sealion megapost thread and most of the usual suspects basically repeat the same ideas, just wording it differently in post after post and thread after thread.
Basically everyone's repeating themselves and most of the sealion threads are a variation of the same theme. Each one is basically a venga boys song. All basically the same, but slightly different or with slightly changed lyrics.
The problem as I see it is that there is far more unsupported rot spouted by the so called sensible side that it gets really frustrating for those that would prefer realistic, fact based arguments to prove a successful invasion was impossible. Even more frustrating is when those facts are pointed out the poster is invariably assumed to be advocating German victory and slammed as a notzi sympathiser or worse when in fact they are trying to point out that the British would have actually had a more measured approach to their islands defence than simply throwing everything into the front line at or before zero hour in a suicidal rush.
As for Germany's chance of success in the event of a BoB victory, believe me it is massively increased as that victory would mean an RAF fighter force of less than 300 and the RN being pushed back so their closest bases are Immingham in the east and Plymouth in the west. BUT and it's a big BUT, the chances of the Luftwaffe getting that victory are next to none and that's only because you can't rule out some weird kind of occurrence that knocks out the entire radar network for a week for example.
I agree, but assuming the RAF pulls back and Sealion is launched the RN won't be sitting around waiting. Air cover or not ships will enter the Channel to intercept. Losses will be heavy on both sides...