Hierosolyma
Banned
What do you think would happen if the Crusader States survived Saladin/other Arabs, and were still in existence by the time the Ottomans made it to the Levant? Would the Ottomans try to subjugate them? Would they succeed?
Quite a few dead butterflies here, but the only way the Frankish Levant remains is by rolling a string of 20s on the diplomatic tables unless we are looking at a massive commitment early on so... depending on how fast they offer fealty Constantinople may not bother but if they did there is no way to hold out (although the nobility remaining grandees/governors if they convert has precedent).What do you think would happen if the Crusader States survived Saladin/other Arabs, and were still in existence by the time the Ottomans made it to the Levant? Would the Ottomans try to subjugate them? Would they succeed?
What do you think would happen if the Crusader States survived Saladin/other Arabs, and were still in existence by the time the Ottomans made it to the Levant? Would the Ottomans try to subjugate them? Would they succeed?
The Principality of Antioch and the County of Tripoli are, implausibly but possible, survivors. The Kingdom of Jerusalem is really improbable, The County of Edessa was a doomed case of blind arrogance.
Selim II ends their existence sometime around 1571 (riffing on the conquest of Cyprus).
Why is the County of Edessa singled out as the most implausible?
If any part of the Frankish Levant survives the odds of Osman I being born, let alone founding a successful beylik, are nil.
Butterflies. The Crusader States surviving would be a very large change to world history, and changing that would cause future events down the line to change. Perhaps some other Turkish ruler would form a mighty empire in this world, perhaps not, but if someone did, it wouldn't be Osman.How come?
Not sure about this part. Far less area and inaccessible terrain to work with than Rumelia and more importantly playing politics with the neighboring Muslim rulers well enough seem to preclude clearing the resident Muslims out.But if they’re run over, these states will be overwhelming to completely Christian, so the Levant will end much more like Balkans under Ottoman rule than OTL Levant with a slow conversion to Islam, but Christians still making up the vast majority by the 19th century.
And the Regno di Candia until almost the 18th. However i think the OP was thinking of the Levant....The Knights of Rhodes existed until 16th century.
If any part of the Frankish Levant survives the odds of Osman I being born, let alone founding a successful beylik, are nil.
The Duchy of Athens existed until it was conquered by the Ottomans as well.The Knights of Rhodes existed until 16th century.
I assume you're being sarcastic here?What I wanna know is, how does it affect World War II? Would the crusaders ally with Hitler (as anti-Semitic extremists) or would they join the Allies as they could be given concessions in the rest of the Middle East.
What I wanna know is, how does it affect World War II? Would the crusaders ally with Hitler (as anti-Semitic extremists) or would they join the Allies as they could be given concessions in the rest of the Middle East.
The County of Edessa was landlocked, much of its territories were beyond the Euphrates and the entire county formed a rather vulnerable salient into Seljuk lands, had poor relations with its neighbor in Antioch, was just generally remote from the rest of Christiandom (moreso than any of the other Crusader States, again due to lacking a coastline) and from the other Crusader States.Why is the County of Edessa singled out as the most implausible?
Strength doesn't mean anything if you don't know how to use it.Aha! You all forget the strongest, though perhaps most hated, crusader state.
The imperium romaniae!