Twilight of the Valkyries: A 20 July Plot TL
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Tyr Anazasi
Banned
Very indeed. We have time and a hopefully good chair in which we sit and can talk openly. They had nothing. They had to overcome many difficulties and had to stay hidden. However, they had the best chances of all resistance groups and are still the most effective. And by a very little margin they failed. A bit more luck, and here luck is very decisive, and they would have succeeded. They are heroes and no idiots who died trying to kill a bloody tyrant. True patriots.
And here I am with this TL. While there were errors in their plans, true, I nonetheless think the moment Hitler is dead would be the moment of their success. Göring was IMO way too "damaged" within the Wehrmacht to follow. And Guderian, who might also be a part of the resistance movement, would, even if he wasn't, make no counter coup. This seems to be too constructed. I don't say it is ASB or way too unrealistic. Just too constructed. I concur with the momentum starting in such a moment. However, I still can't see Göring to take over control. And especially not Himmler.
Ian_W
Banned
This is an excellent TL. While Im hugely sympathetic to the anti-Nazi July 20 plotters, I agree that their plans for what to do after Hitler was dead were a little problematic, especially as the Allies werent particularly interested in terms that left the German Army there.
Please keep going
Please keep going
This is an excellent TL. While Im hugely sympathetic to the anti-Nazi July 20 plotters, I agree that their plans for what to do after Hitler was dead were a little problematic, especially as the Allies werent particularly interested in terms that left the German Army there.
Please keep going
Thanks!
Next update comes this week, giving more detail into what exactly happened at the Berlin meeting, the outcome of that, and probably, the reactions from Kluge, Model and the SS.
Mrstrategy
Banned
Like I mention before have the western front troops join the allies as a liberation army against the nazi
They'd sooner turn Paris into smouldering peatland than hand over their country to be partitioned and reduced to an agarian backwater. WAllies weren't nearly at the level of savagery the Soviets enjoyed engaging in, but they were perfectly cool with knocking Germany to the Middle Ages if it meant not having to take a third World War from them.
Tyr Anazasi
Banned
There was only one small chance: Driving a wedge between WAllies and Stalin AND forcing FDR to change dramatically his position. Or his successor.
Yes, it's their only shot. Drive a wedge between the Soviet's and WAllies and perhaps hope that Truman takes office a few months earlier which is not that hard given FDR was having a lot of strokes in this period and was barely hanging on.
A bit dubious as I want to get the solution to the coup done before moving onto the rest of the world, but there should be a few references to this.
Oh, there's plans for the USA. The DNC was held right about this time and even the slightest change could have led to different results in the VP selection, my thinking being that butterflies can act here as well. Who exactly will the President be after January 1945 I haven't decided, but I have four possible candidates.
Not a small chance, an impossible one. Public opinion in both the UK and US are firmly pro-Soviet, anti-German at this time. Even if the leadership wants to take a different tack, they are ultimately beholden to the populace and changing their populaces attitudes will take years while moving too quickly on the policy changes will provoke a political crisis that ultimately would undermine the western war effort, to the territorial benefit of the Soviets.
What changes if Truman takes officer "a few months earlier"? The Soviets have already overrun Eastern Europe by then and are poised to seize Berlin regardless of what the WAllies do. Turning them back is both a military and political impossibility. Stalin has all the cards. Both Roosevelt and Churchill were operating under that reality and Truman would be no different.
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Stalin has Eastern Europe in his pocket as of the Summer of 1944, but not Central Europe yet.
Neither do the WAllies and they see no reason, indeed have no reason, to let Germany retain control over Central Europe.
What happened to Germany in 1944-45 wasn't the result of Roosevelt being naive about Stalin or him hating Germany. It was actually really a kind of karma, of Germany suffering the resulting consequences for the actions it had undertaken in 1939-42. The consequence was that the Allies, both east and west, concluded that Germany as it existed now had to be broken completely and utterly. And none of them, not Churchill, Roosevelt, Stalin, or any of their subordinates or people ever really wavered from that conclusion.
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Germany unoccupied with 1939 borders was gone after Kursk. But, how exactly they lose, who occupies what and by how much was not a given really until late 1944/early 45.
That has long been concluded by the time the TL takes place. Both the political and military events that resulted in the Soviets and the Americans shaking their hands on the Elbe have long passed. All that is left is the question of how long it will take and how costly it will be for the respective sides.
Only if FDR doesn't have a worse stroke in coming months of the TL, Stalin does nothing paranoid and rash and the Germans put the same level of effort as OTL fighting in the West and East and make the same or similar mistakes in the process.
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