If not, then the Australians will be ready for the next sailing competition there
Cheers,
Nigel.
That Wacky Redhead
- Thread starter Brainbin
- Start date
If not, then the Australians will be ready for the next sailing competition there
Cheers,
Nigel.
I agree, a reforming Iranian Monarchy is a better outcome than OTL.
Thank you all for your responses to my latest update! It's nice to be posting content again after such a lengthy pause. And now, for my responses to your replies to that content...
But thank you for so diligently maintaining the TWR page over on TVTropes - you really flushed it out with a lot of lovely details
To answer this question, I will link you to the relevant passage in the update...
As you can see, your intuition was correct!
Ironically, Khomeini will prove as elusive to the Imperial State of Iran ITTL as Salman Rushdie did to Khomeini himself IOTL. In other words, he'll remain at large for the rest of his life, under the protection of those who oppose the Imperial State of Iran - in this case, the Republic of Iraq.
Such language!
But thank you for so diligently maintaining the TWR page over on TVTropes - you really flushed it out with a lot of lovely details A very intriguing point, Ogrebear! However, bear in mind that only two countries border the Caspian at this point ITTL - Iran, and the Soviet Union. Neither was known for their pro-environmentalist policies. Additionally, perhaps you might be overestimating the lingering impact that the Caspian Sea (which, I remind you, only plays host to the boating events) will have on viewers. They're far more likely to remember the two fencers who were blown up by a terrorist - now that leaves a lingering impact. Let's just say tourists won't be booking any Caspian Sea vacation packages.
To answer this question, I will link you to the relevant passage in the update...
As you can see, your intuition was correct!
Indeed! And I promise that it won't be as long before the next one.
Well, don't be too surprised, considering that Iran (or rather, Persia) was Shahist for most of its (very long) history.The Professor said:
Though not without its flaws... or risks. But yes, on the whole, I think that constitutional monarchy is a form of government most people can accept
Which will be as interesting as this one, as it covers the state of motion picture studios in the aftermath of Paramount vs. Lucasfilm.
An interesting Olympic location, and a sadly all-too-likely outcome.
On another note, this is a bit out of left field, but a combination of factors (his recent loss, the TL having reached the point he became famous, and the fact his work is basically the only thing I'm a serious fan of that you haven't already covered to some extent) make me wonder how Terry Pratchett's doing ITTL? ISTR previous suggestions that the "generic fantasy universe" was a bit different to OTL, which would affect what the early Discworlds are parodying.
On another note, this is a bit out of left field, but a combination of factors (his recent loss, the TL having reached the point he became famous, and the fact his work is basically the only thing I'm a serious fan of that you haven't already covered to some extent) make me wonder how Terry Pratchett's doing ITTL? ISTR previous suggestions that the "generic fantasy universe" was a bit different to OTL, which would affect what the early Discworlds are parodying.
I too would like to know what becomes of (Sir) Terry in this particular leg of the Trousers of Time.
I wouldn't be surprised if Discworld still exists in one form or another, especially since a great deal of things he drew upon were around a great deal eariler (Tolkien, Shakespeare, etc.).
The first couple of Discworld novels were parodying fantasy itself (rather than using fantasy to parody other subjects), in the same way that Strata and The Dark Side of the Sun were parodies of Science Fiction. As such, the works that they parodied (Lankhmar, Conan, Pern, Lovecraftian Horror) were all in existence before the POD of TTL. Interestingly, there's not much of a direct parody of Tolkien in the first couple of books - a single line in Equal Rites is the first real mention.
The matter of his popularity could be butterflied ITTL. An earlier SF boom implies an earlier popularity of SF parodies which could lead to him becoming well known earlier - especially if his US publisher does a better job of publicity than the one he had OTL.
Cheers,
Nigel.
caught up
Brainbin,
I finally got completely caught up with this excellent time line. Thanks. As it happens I spent late 66' through late 69' in the army, engaged in that overseas quagmire in 68' so managed to neatly miss the first run of TOS. I did get it in syndication during the mid 70's. I have read SF since my childhood and came by it honestly as my mother poached her father's subscriptions in her childhood. (Had a letter to the editor published in 1930 when she was 10 in Amazing Stories). Any questions you have, shoot.
Brainbin,
I finally got completely caught up with this excellent time line. Thanks. As it happens I spent late 66' through late 69' in the army, engaged in that overseas quagmire in 68' so managed to neatly miss the first run of TOS. I did get it in syndication during the mid 70's. I have read SF since my childhood and came by it honestly as my mother poached her father's subscriptions in her childhood. (Had a letter to the editor published in 1930 when she was 10 in Amazing Stories). Any questions you have, shoot.
It's a pretty good point--he seems to have languished in obscurity between Carpet People in 1971 and Colour of Magic being adapted as a BBC radio serial in 1985. I wonder how much Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy had to do with that, and in turn him finally catching on widely? Anyway, it seems that there's a lot of room for butterflies.
Yes, but I deemed it to be appropriate give the circumstances.Such language!
It's hear-say evidence I know, but I certainly saw a number of people read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy novel who were not habitual SF readers. Many of those looked for something similar and found the Discworld series. HHGG is a good example of a popular SF parody following the SF boom triggered by Star Wars IOTL.
So... Tolkien, but indirectly.
Very indirectly. In an interview, Sir Terry said that his fantasy works were a reaction to the people who were influenced by the people who were influenced by the people who were influenced by Tolkien.
Cheers,
Nigel.
Actually, the next post is the gaming update - I skipped past that to post the Olympics update because it wasn't ready yet. But now I can say that update is in the cards!
Indeed. And one which almost happened IOTL - if the Iranian Revolution hadn't happened, Tehran might well have prevailed as host!
Now, obviously, this question has resulted in a good deal of speculation, so perhaps it's best to address it here and now.Daibhid C said:
Terry Pratchett was one of those people who seemed to follow me all over the internet, wherever I went, for as far back as I can remember. From your descriptions of him, and what one of my consultants (an avid Pratchett fan - see what I mean?) has told me, that's not terribly surprising - he seems to have written in every conceivable genre. But he also hit it big well after the POD, and I've been accused of being too convergent more than once in the past. Therefore, I hereby rule that if - if - Pratchett achieves notoriety as a fiction writer ITTL, it will be after September 20, 1986.
(One more reason to hope for a sequel - or for there not to be a sequel, depending on who you are.)
Thank you for sharing, kingfisher - and I must say that it reminds me of a cultural stereotype I recently observed regarding generational differences between war veterans, which is thus:
It seems that members of the Greatest Generation (along with older Silents in this case - old enough to have served in Korea if not WWII, and way too old for the overseas quagmire) tend not to talk about their experiences in the war. They'll dress up once a year for the parades, go to the legion for drinks with their old army buddies, keep their medals carefully polished and stored away, but that's the extent of it. Don't ever ask them about what they did between 1939/40/41 and 1945 - they'll certainly never volunteer it. For them, the war was just something that happened - their lives (and the Best Years thereof) began after they came back, when they settled down, went to school, got a good job, had kids, and lived the American Dream/in a Land Fit for Heroes.
Whereas it seems that Baby Boomers, on the other hand - along with the younger Silents, in this case - are the exact opposite. If they served in the overseas quagmire, people will generally know about it in short order, and they're often very happy to discuss their experiences, sometimes in vivid detail. That many Boomers viewed their years fighting overseas as a - perhaps the - critical period in their lives is best demonstrated by the cultural fixation with that conflict which still lingers among their generation even now, decades later. Which brings me to my first question! Since I do have a veteran of That War reading, would you be willing to share with the thread which of the myriad films about that conflict is the most representative of your experiences there?
I understand if you'd rather not broach the topic in any further detail, but I feel compelled to ask since this is a thread about culture, and that war dominated the cultural conversation for so long IOTL. And it's a chance for you to educate a not-insignificant audience of readers as to which of these movies "got it right" - and which were hogwash as well, if you like.
Maybe, but nobody would have used that word on Star TrekYes, but I deemed it to be appropriate give the circumstances.
(Or on any primetime network series, for that matter.)
Well, some things are bound to similar in a TL in real life, either because the POD doesn't go into that region, or just for convenience sake. Personally, I tolerate it. I mean, I don't mind that, for example, CNN and MTV still exist. It's still written well enough to make it plausible.
I don't want to sound particularly demanding (and if you don't want to do it, feel free to ignore), but perhaps when many people ask for the fate of a person, maybe just add a brief 2-3 sentence description on what they are doing at the time. Like, "This person is here in 1984. They're doing this." Something like that.
Again, if you don't want to do this, feel free to ignore me. I'm just giving a suggestion.
One really interesting side-effect of having the 1984 Olympics in Tehran is that it's going to shatter the average American's view of the Middle East -- one that, IMO, still mostly holds today -- as existing somewhere in the middle Bronze Age.
I can think of a lot of ways in which shattering that false belief may have significant consequences....
I can think of a lot of ways in which shattering that false belief may have significant consequences....
If anything, I'd say that you tend to do the opposite - in particular having shows broadcast with their OTL working titles, which sometimes sound a bit clunky compared to the titles actually used OTL. But that is very minor and the vast majority of the changes ITTL make sense. I'd single out the election of President Humphrey as a particular good example of a non-convergent change that follows directly from the POD.
Still, it's a little ironic that your concern about being too convergent has led you to decide that Sir Terry's career should be about the same as OTL up to the mid Eighties.
On a more general point, we've discussed before that parody is a measure of cultural significance and that successful genres inspire parody. ITTL, there's the example of the film Catastrophe as a parody of the Disaster Movie. IOTL, the SF boom following Star Wars inspired parodies such as the Hitchhikers' Guide to the Galaxy, Spaceballs and Galaxy Quest. With an earlier SF boom due to the greater success of Star Trek, what are the equivalents ITTL ? AFAIR, there has been a Planet of the Apes parody starring Shatner, but I can't recall if you've mentioned others.
Cheers,
Nigel.
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