The Land of Wine and Beer : a Franco-Burgundian TL

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Don't forget Brittany... France without Brittany is not complete... :cool:

France in union with Castile-Leon will be a monster.... Hope it will not be too big for it's own sake.
It probably will be too big to rule unless Aragon is interally annexed or Navarre is. They would make logistics slightly better. In the first case Barcelona or Montpellier would be the capital. In the second one, it would probably be Bordeaux.
If you include Naples, your capital needs to be in France and on the Mediterranean. Like Marseille.
By that time, France will be territorially the closest thing to the Western Roman Empire.

Brittany... Let's say he keeps them for later. After all a succession war takes place there every so and so, all he needs is confiscate it.
 
It probably will be too big to rule unless Aragon is interally annexed or Navarre is. They would make logistics slightly better. In the first case Barcelona or Montpellier would be the capital. In the second one, it would probably be Bordeaux.
If you include Naples, your capital needs to be in France and on the Mediterranean. Like Marseille.
By that time, France will be territorially the closest thing to the Western Roman Empire.

Brittany... Let's say he keeps them for later. After all a succession war takes place there every so and so, all he needs is confiscate it.

Castille-France personal union would not last after one generation, it would be inherited by different sons, I think the first son would inherit France and the second one would inherit Castille...a Valois Castille will be very interesting, the first theoretical husband of Joan of Castille is the Duke of Guyenne.
 
Castille-France personal union would not last after one generation, it would be inherited by different sons, I think the first son would inherit France and the second one would inherit Castille...a Valois Castille will be very interesting, the first theoretical husband of Joan of Castille is the Duke of Guyenne.
I think a Castille-France personal union can last,but the problem is that most likely you will be getting another Austro-Hungarian Empire in the long term.
 
I still believe that the Castilian nobles do not wish such union... If Juana make such move it will loose all his internal support.
 
1476 - Castillan Succession War III - Fall of Catalonia (Battle of Toro)
the war must go on

1476 in Iberia and France : the Fall of Catalonia

"Oncques Aragon ne vit d'armée plus décourageante que celle de la France, car plus elle vaincquait, plus elle croissait", Histoire de France : 1470-1490, Where the Spider dwells


The winter of 1476 was a relatively short one for Iberia since military operations hardly did stop in Castille and Aragon saw French moves taking place from March onwards. Two of the most important war operations took place during the very month of March : the Battle of Toro, on March 1st, in C
astilla, demoralized the Isabellista party, while the Siege of Girona started ten days later.

Battle of Toro

The Battle of Toro has been seen more than once as the moral turning-point in the Castillan Succession War. After it, the Isabellista force combined never equaled in size the Juanista one, never mind the Portuguese army, and the few battles won over the Juanistas didn't prove sufficient to cover up for the waning Aragonese support to the war, being embroiled in a war of their own.
On the Juanista side, the Portuguese and Castillans had fielded approximately 5000 footmen, including missile troops, and 3500 horsemen. The army center was built around the Castillan and Portuguese knights, by adding to this core 4 bodies of footmen. The Archbishop of Toledo and a few Portuguese nobles manned a relatively weak left wing while the elite forces of the Portuguese army under Prince Joao of Portugal covered the right wing.
On the Isabellista, the mostly Castillan army fielded 4000 footmen and missile troops with 2500 horsemen. While popular milicias, hidalgos' troops and the Royal Guard made up the center, the left wing was made of heavy cavalry (mostly knights) and the right wing of 6 divisions of light cavalry.
Joao was the first one to send his troops into the battle, directly onto the heavy cavalry, pinning it and slowly butchering it. The fight was more or less equal, but slowly turned to Joao's favor, until the knights broke. Quarter of Joao's men were left to the center, while the rest with Joao pursued the heavy cavalry. The loss of his heavy cavalry disturbed Fernando enough for him to return to Isabellista Zamora. He thus handled the command of Isabellista troops to Cardinal Mendoza, which sent his men against the rest of the Juanista army. While the left wing ended up fighting a delaying action, the elite troops of the Portuguese army helped the Juanista center block, and then repel the Isabellista center. When Joao finished mopping up the knights, gaining large amounts of prisoners in the meantime, he returned to the battlefield and ended up attacking the Aragonese-Castillan force in the back, which finished it as a fighting force.
The Juanistas then enjoyed a regular sacking of the Isabellistas' camp, and returned to theirs.
It took both the stature of Cardinal Mendoza and Prince Fernando of Aragon for the Isabellistas to regroup. The next day of the battle was basically a hour-long staring contest the Juanista force won.
While the Juanistas took something like 1300 casualties, the Isabellista ones, including the captured knights, ranged in the 1900. Far from being a bloodless battle, it still proved less bloody than L'Escale. The propaganda hit scored by the Portuguese allowed to keep themselves in the war by reducing their people's disgust for the war, while the Isabellistas were discredited and slowly the Juanistas started growing in numbers all across Castille.

Siege of Girona

The French army had not remained idle during the last few months after L'Escale. While the 10 thousand-strong Aragonese army had suffered from a casualty rate of 70%, the French 15% still was a dent in their army they had to recover from. This is where the troops in training were handy : there were more than 10 thousand troops still in training when the French army entered Catalonia, and an additionnal 3 thousand started training after the battle of L'Escale.
It is a 20-thousand strong French army that left Perpignan and Empuries under Jean de Comminges in early March to lay siege to Girona. A large garrison of 1000 had been kept in Empuries in case the Aragonese try to attack them while busy in their siege, and 5000 more had been left in Dax should the Navarrese attack.
The French army that left to Girona counted 70 canons, 4000 missile troops, 3000 knights, 2000 lancers and 10700 foot soldiers. This was half more than whatever population and troops probably laid in Girona.
The first step of the siege was gathering ressources. The French bought whatever they could in the days before the siege started and brought from Languedoc the rest. The city, after winter, was far from having stored all the food it could, and when the 3000-strong remains of the Aragonese army of L'Escale were counted, it was obvious that Girona wouldn't last long. Meanwhile, Juan II de Aragon hadn't managed to recruit troops enough to challenge or even significantly distract the French force.
On April 1st, Girona surrendered. The remains of the Aragonese army were treated as prisoners of war, but the city wasn't looted as the French had only spent a short siege with abundant foodstuffs and correct climate conditions and the French Maréchal had forbidden to loot the city.

French progress in Catalonia
Early in the war, the French had only taken over the coast. Now, they had to take over the mainland. The French army, with reinforcements, split into three equivalent groups of 7000 men. They were to take minor cities in inner Catalonia.
The Maréchal sent the following orders to his men :
- Offer them money to surrender, up to 20000 livres.
- If they surrender without actual fighting taking place, they can keep their walls and don't get looted.
- If they surrender after some fighting, the walls will have to be destroyed.
- If the walls are breached and the guards surrender, same as above.
- If the guard fights, kill all the guard.
- If civilians attack (only the captain is allowed to decide what is attack), the city gets looted.
The scheme worked well enough that before September ended, only Tarragona and Barcelona weren't kept by a small French guard. Berga, in Cerdagne, had been looted.
Some cities in Aragon had also been seized , but they were kept undefended as the French army had to be ready for the next step : the Siege of Barcelona.
 
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Isabella of Aragon, the daughter of Ferdinand and Isabella could marry Charles VIII..in order to seal a peace treaty
I think there is a high probability Isabella de Castilla will end up in a nunnery at the end of the war should Fernando find another good party - which will not happen before 1478.
Isabella de Aragon, though... It could be a good idea. It would allow Fernando to get rid of an embarassing daughter should he remarry.
 
1476 - Castillan Succession War IV - Siege of Barcelona
Finishing the War of the Iberian March today. Next focus on Lorraine and Burgondy.

The Siege of Barcelona
"The main proof of Barcelona's decline from the XIVth century onwards is that it was conquered in 1476 by the French. Not that it could do much about it", Histoire de la Catalogne, tome 2 : la chute de l'Aragon

Background of the Siege

Barcelona held a very particular value for both the French and the Aragonese. To the French, it was a major port which could challenge Venice or Genoa and which held one-tenth of the Catalan population. To the Aragonese Crown, it was their capital, more than Zaragossa, in Aragon proper.
For this, the French had gathered a massive army of 16 000 men, including all those who had previously been training. There was a secondary army group of 7 000 tasked with seizing Tarragona and then cities in the Kingdom of Valencia. But this was not all the French had in their sleeve. Louis the Spider was known as such necause he used the shit-tons of money as a very special form of diplomacy, and he had paid 200 000 livres tournois for renting a very large Venitian fleet to blockade the city for the duration of the siege.
The city itself had a small amount of guards (~500) coming from the civilian population, and a larger amount (~4000) that had been sent there from the Kingdom of Valencia. It was obvious that they could not hope to defeat the whole French army, especially when all the towns (not the villages, but the towns) had been seized by France. However, getting through at least once would allow to reach a village, buy and/or steal all the food they can carry, and return to Barcelona with food enough to wait until the Venitians get tired of the siege.
The French were well aware of the fact that the Venitians would only stay for so long. This is why of their 16 000 force, only 12 000 were holding the siege. The remaining 4000, mostly made of their cavalry, were sent to strip the surrounding villages of their foodstuffs.

Chronology of the Siege


October 2nd : Beginning of the Siege of Barcelona.
October 19th : Rationing is introduced in the city; the guards start preparing an exit. Meanwhile French cannons were concentrated on the part of the wall that seems to be the weakest.
November 3rd : News arrive that Tarragona has fallen. The French send Occitan nobles to yell it at the guards to taunt them. Fearing the siege would be unbreakable as soon as the French reinforcements arrived (while they were de facto going to Castellon), they re-schedule their exit to November 5th.
November 5th (day) : 3000 guards of the Aragonese army cross through one of the Southern doors of Barcelona, without meeting any fierce resistance from the French, which basically just let them through. The guards end up wandering into a barren countryside. When they return to Barcelona, they plan to cross through the exact same gate. They meet unexpectedly a very fierce resistance, as the French have prepared for the possibility of an attack from the outside and the knights and lancers have come to reinforce the small garrison of the door.
500 Aragonese soldiers die in front of the door, and a dozen or so Occitan soldiers in disguise hide in the remaining of the force.
November 5th (night) : The Occitan open the northernmost door to the French, where the French garrison is the largest, and these soldiers pour into the city. When the fighting in the city and on the walls dies out, Barcelona is firmly under French control. Even the citadel has fallen, notably due to fifty cannonballs crushing the door.

Won the War, won the Peace : the Treaty of Zaragossa.

The Aragonese Trastamara were obviously no longer in the city, having left before the beginning of the siege by boat. However, a large part of the treasury had been left in a hurry. This welcome addition to the French coffers was used to reduce slightly taxes that year.
However, this is not what prompted Louis to drop the fighting instead of taking over the whole Aragonese realm. On the one hand, if Louis got too heavy-handed, Portugal and Castille-Leon might end up joining the Aragonese side, which would be disastrous for France. On the other hand, France needed its soldiers to help Charles which was in trouble in Lorraine with the Swiss. Thus the Spider sent a diplomat to Zaragossa on November 25th to make peace. He arrived in Zaragossa on December 17th, on the same day as the news of the fall of Castellon.
The terms he offered were as followed :
Louis de Valois took over Catalonia (aka the County of Barcelona) as part of France and becomes King of Majorque. His son, the Dauphin Charles, is to marry Fernando de Aragon's eldest daughter Isabella.
In exchange, any cities taken over by the French army in the Kingdom of Aragon or the Kingdom of Valencia (which meant expressly Castellon) are returned to the Aragonese Trastamara, and Louis abandons all claims to Aragon, Valencia or Insular Sicily.
Those terms were widely accepted as quite lenient, compared to the Treaty of Troyes which was the precedent when a major nation lost its capital, and the Treaty of Troyes was signed on the 18th by the Aragonese King Juan II and on New Year 1477 by Louis the Spider.
 
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I'll have the Charles de Bourgogne update ready later tonight or tomorrow.
The only thing I can say that is not a spoiler is that he dies :Dand that invading Lorraine is not good for a Valois's health.
 
Good progression. :p

I'm sad to hear that our beloved Charles do not succeeded on the conquest of Loraine. It could being a nice addition to the Spider's domain...

I look forward to see what's happens next.

Cheers!

PS: I'm now very short of time to spend of this forum... so, even if I do not commented, do not means I will not read it at all... I'm very eager to see more. Next week... it will be better!
 
Good progression. :p

I'm sad to hear that our beloved Charles do not succeeded on the conquest of Loraine. It could being a nice addition to the Spider's domain...

I look forward to see what's happens next.

Cheers!

PS: I'm now very short of time to spend of this forum... so, even if I do not commented, do not means I will not read it at all... I'm very eager to see more. Next week... it will be better!
Actually Lorraine is going to be part of the succession but in a shitty manner. Charles dies in the siege of Nancy as per OTL but the Burgondians won it, so one can dispute whether or not Lorraine can be included or not in the succession.
Lorraine will remain a flashpoint for decades between Capetiens and the HREmperors.
As for lack of time due to RL... I know it. Had I had more time I would have started this TL earlier and/or already written a few more updates.
 
Actually Lorraine is going to be part of the succession but in a shitty manner. Charles dies in the siege of Nancy as per OTL but the Burgondians won it, so one can dispute whether or not Lorraine can be included or not in the succession.
Lorraine will remain a flashpoint for decades between Capetiens and the HREmperors.
As for lack of time due to RL... I know it. Had I had more time I would have started this TL earlier and/or already written a few more updates.

Hm... I can say just that I'm impatient to read the update... :cool:

I have tons of questions.
The treaty between France and Aragon was signed in Troyes? Why?
Concerning the Dauphin Charles... will he be luckier TTL? Will he have issues with his wife, Isabella?
Will live Louis XI longer or lesser TTL?
How France will perform against HRE in the most certain war ? OTL was quite poor... but this resulted in a military reform.
Who will marry Anne of Brittany?
Louis d'Orleans will remain married with Jeane de France (la boiteuse) ? Will he ever become king? :D

Cheers!
 
The other problem is that Beja might be the second husband of Joanna who will provide heirs and John of Portugal's son might or might not survive.
 
Hm... I can say just that I'm impatient to read the update... :cool:

I have tons of questions.
OK. I'm gonna answer them all.
The treaty between France and Aragon was signed in Troyes? Why?
No, in Zaragossa. It is only compared to Troyes which is the precedent when a king which claims your land takes your capital.
Concerning the Dauphin Charles... will he be luckier TTL? Will he have issues with his wife, Isabella?
I hesitate between "too stupid to live" and "let's leave him a chance". He will have a heir though.
Will live Louis XI longer or lesser TTL?
Long enough to take over Burgondy, so a bit longer as Burgondy will really be a mess.
How France will perform against HRE in the most certain war ? OTL was quite poor... but this resulted in a military reform.
There will be a military reform, Englishmen, chronic backstabbing disorder and a happy Spider.
Who will marry Anne of Brittany?
Louis d'Orleans will remain married with Jeane de France (la boiteuse) ? Will he ever become king?:D
Cheers!
He won't become King but he will marry Anne de Bretagne. He will have his marriage with Jeanne la Boiteuse annuled for consanguinity and she will go East.
 
OK. I'm gonna answer them all.
No, in Zaragossa. It is only compared to Troyes which is the precedent when a king which claims your land takes your capital.
I hesitate between "too stupid to live" and "let's leave him a chance". He will have a heir though.

Long enough to take over Burgondy, so a bit longer as Burgondy will really be a mess.

There will be a military reform, Englishmen, chronic backstabbing disorder and a happy Spider.

He won't become King but he will marry Anne de Bretagne. He will have his marriage with Jeanne la Boiteuse annuled for consanguinity and she will go East.

Assuming that he marries Anne of Brittany earlier, it gives her and her husbands descendants a chance to reclaim Milan.
 
Assuming that he marries Anne of Brittany earlier, it gives her and her husbands descendants a chance to reclaim Milan.

And he will become one of the most powerful man in France... His son (if he has a son with Anne), will be next in line for the crown if Charles' son die... or do not have issue...

Interesting how the Italian wars will happens TTL... :rolleyes:
 
Assuming that he marries Anne of Brittany earlier, it gives her and her husbands descendants a chance to reclaim Milan.
Well there will be some Italian Wars anyway, since the claims to Peninsular Sicily haven't been renounced. Add to it Milan, and Savoy is doomed should the Valois cousins agree on partition.
They already reclaimed Milan IOTL during the Second Italian War in 1500. However they failed and lost it in the Third when going for Naples.
Since here they will go for it earlier they might have a chance at keeping it.
Let me think.... Italian War I : Milan claimed by the Valois-Orleans with French support. Italian War II : Naples claimed by Charles VIII with Milanese support. Could work, especially since the Aragonese have been completely screwed ITTL.
The remaining of the Half-Dozen Italian wars will mainly be coalitions with the Aragonese, Venitians, and Habsburgs to try and take Milan and/or Naples from Valois hands. Especially after the Burgondian Will.
 
Well there will be some Italian Wars anyway, since the claims to Peninsular Sicily haven't been renounced. Add to it Milan, and Savoy is doomed should the Valois cousins agree on partition.
They already reclaimed Milan IOTL during the Second Italian War in 1500. However they failed and lost it in the Third when going for Naples.
Since here they will go for it earlier they might have a chance at keeping it.
Let me think.... Italian War I : Milan claimed by the Valois-Orleans with French support. Italian War II : Naples claimed by Charles VIII with Milanese support. Could work, especially since the Aragonese have been completely screwed ITTL.

Italian War III : HRE fight back! + Pope, Venetians and all the Italian states

Italian War IV : One more mess to mess around with... :cool: (aka: some people never give up...)
 
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