The Land of Wine and Beer : a Franco-Burgundian TL

[DracoLazarus]

Ok guys. Due to RL stuff, I couldn't post my first update yet, but it will be here by tomorrow 18 : 00 GMT.
The c
"The Cast" will focus on three families : Capétiens, Trastamara and Habsburgs.

 

[aegis03florin]

Ok guys. Due to RL stuff, I couldn't post my first update yet, but it will be here by tomorrow 18 : 00 GMT.
The c
"The Cast" will focus on three families : Capétiens, Trastamara and Habsburgs.

I can say just we waiting...

I do understand the RF requirements...

 

[Xgentis]

A Valois reconciliation would be interesting, having them hate a common enemy that they hate more then each others might be a good start.

 

[DracoLazarus]

A Valois reconciliation would be interesting, having them hate a common enemy that they hate more then each others might be a good start.

Well I think giving a good reason for Charles to invade and annex Lorraine could be sufficient for him to reconcile with the Spider King. As for the other way around, well... The will seems a good treat for the Spider King.

 

[DracoLazarus]

The Cast as of 1473
​

The Capetien Clan : the Houses of Valois

Louis XI "le Prudent", King of France (the Land of Wine)
He is known as "l'universelle aragne" or Louis the Spider King. He has spent the few first years of his reign trying to grab Burgondian lands and trying not to have his grabbed. This has stopped after the treaty of Péronne which instaured an uneasy peace between the cousins. (POD : Péronne is not invalidated) Since then he grabs others of his vassals' lands. He is certainly the most machiavelian king around, and is also a very competent administrator.
Economically speaking, France is still recovering from the not-yet-finished Hundred Years' War, but this is militarily speaking covered up by the well-trained, well-organized troops he inherited from his father Charles le Bien Servi.

Charles "le Téméraire", Duke of Burgondy and countless lands of Beer.
His nickname is well-deserved, being excessively brave and a bit rash. In his person he shows both the best and the worst of the Valois-Burgondy, as he is too pushy for fine diplomacy, but a very chivalrous duke, and his sponsoring of artists stained by his utter ruthlessness, as when he burnt and pillaged the rebellious city of Dinant. Ever heard of it ? It's because he burnt it.
He owns a massive prosperous realm whose main inconvenient is its being split in halves, the Burgondies and Netherlands. Had he a reason, or simply an occasion to invade Lorraine or Champagne, he would doubtlessly seize it.

"Le Bon Roi" René d'Anjou, Duke of Anjou, Count of Provence and Forcalquier, formerly titular king of Aragon and Naples.
An old man liked by his subjects in Angers and (especially) Aix-en-Provence. One of his daughters has married the Spider King.

Nicolas the First of Anjou, Duke of Lorraine
The grandson of René d'Anjou, whose claims on Aragon and Naples he inherited through his father Jean II of Calabria. He has been promised Marie of Burgondy. His death on July 27th, 1473, while trying to take Metz to round up his realm, will kick the butterfly flower.

The Trastamara Tribe (yes, I do it for the Added Alliterative Appeal)

Juan II de Trastamara, King of Aragon, Valencia, Majorque, Sicily, Navarra (usurping) and Count of Barcelona.
Juan is another old man. Old he was when he inherited the throne, and old he remained. Nothing noteworthy happened in Aragon after a civil war when he was 60.

Ferdinand of Aragon
The heir of Juan of Aragon. He just thought of marrying one of the women who are bound to fight for Castilla y Leon and married Isabella.

Alfonso V, (House of Aviz) King of Portugal and the Algarves.
The old man is having the same idea as Ferdinand of Aragon after a little crusading in Morocco and conquering archipielagoes.

Enrique IV, King of Castille and Leon
A weak-willed king who, after a little crusading in Andalucia, now sees his kingdom polarise over his inheritance between the allies of his daughter Juana (most Castillian nobles, France) and his step-sister Isabella (Aragon).

Ferrante of Peninsular Sicily (Naples)
One of the worst kings of Naples. Brutal and ruthless, he only reigns through coercition and terror. He is seen by his neighbours as a cruel and dissimuling King.
He had defeated Jean of Calabria, being the bastard son of the previous king of Naples and not his grandson through a woman.

The Habsburg Archduke

Friedrich III von Habsburg, Holy Roman Emperor.
He is very, very busy losing a war against Mathias Corvin. He is considering getting help everywhere he can. A bit weak-willed, he deeply admires Charles de Bourgogne.
His son Maximilian however shows great promise.

 

[Faeelin]

This would be pretty interesting; curious to see what stops them from eating Europe.

 

[DracoLazarus]

Update complete. I'll correct the presentation whenever I reach a computer.

 

[DracoLazarus]

This would be pretty interesting; curious to see what stops them from eating Europe.

Whom ? The French ? They will keep having coalitions sent at them from the beginning of the 1500s onwards. Not that they will lose, we're talking of France with ~4M additionnal inhabitants.

 

[DracoLazarus]

update !!!

Autumn 1473
​

The Running Emperor (as per OTL)

Charles de Bourgogne's chivalrous, flamboyant.personnality gave him numerous admirors, among which the Holy Roman Emperor Friedrich III von Habsburg. The Emperor had once offered Charles' father Philippe "le Bon" de Bourgogne to make the Duchy of Brabant, "one of the oldest and most renowned in Christendom" a kingdom. Philippe had refused, wanting to be king of all his lands and not part of them. Now Charles and Friedrich were in Trier negociating a resurection of the Kingdom of Burgondy.
This kingdom would include, besides Burgondian lands in the Holy Roman Empire, the duchies of Lorraine, Savoie and Kleve as well as the episcopates of Liège, Toul, Verdun, Metz, and Utrecht. In exchange Marie of Bourgogne would marry Maximilian von Habsburg. However, Charles also insisted the Swiss should pay allegiance to him, which Friedrich could not offer, having lost all control on these lands in the past decade.
As discussions got increasingly heated. Friedrich's admiration for Charles progressively turned to fear. As a consequence, on the eve of the crowning Friedrich and Maximilian ran away by horse, leaving Charles let down at the altar.

The Spider's prey

Charles had returned to Dijon furious. He started thinking of putting siege to the imperial city of Neuß. It was at that moment that he received a messenger from his cousin, the French King. Despite not being fond of his cousin, which he despized as a traitorous coward, he accepted to meet as soon as possible in Reims because the letter quoted the Duchy of Lorraine as a possible target for him and Louis had proved he could be true to his word.
Thus they met on December 14th in Reims. Louis smilingly greeted his "good cousin the Prince of Burgondy", thus raising his title (The title would only be officially confirmed at the New Year of 1474) as a means of soothing Charles before directly reaching the core of the subject : the Angevins were going extinct. Only René of Anjou was still alive, and his son and grandson had both died. The Angevins had obtained various titles which could easily be extracted from the old Duke, notably claims to the thrones of the Aragonese Trastamara. Besides that, Lorraine, Provence and Anjou could also be taken over.
Anjou, being an apanage, would return to Louis at René's death, and so would Provence (after a passage in Charles du Maine's hands) as Louis was René's nephew. Lorraine, on the other hand, was going to another granddaughter.
Louis was not interested in Lorraine, having a claim which was at best whacky, and he knew Charles would do anything to land-grab it. On the other hand, Charles was not interested in any far-away kingdom as these kingdoms had large ressources, and an attempted conquest would give his gueux more occasions to revolt.
Thus the French King and the Duke of Bourgogne signed on December 19th the treaty of Reims. According to it, René d'Anjou will be "relieved" of his various claims and titles aside Provence. France would receive these claims except for those to the duchies of Bar and Lorraine. In case a power that wasn't claimed by the Angevins was declaring war to either of the signatories, the other one would come to the rescue.
Charles returned to Dijon incredibly satisfied with his cousin, yet still mad against Friedrich. Upon his arrival, he wrote his will.

 

[Xgentis]

Interesting, the emperor won't like that.

 

[DracoLazarus]

Interesting, the emperor won't like that.

He may not like it, but he doesn't have the gold nor the troops to intervene. He is pretty much busy losing all his lands to the Hungarians and Bohemians led by Mathias Corvin.

 

[aegis03florin]

I can't wait to see more!
However, would Mary stil marry Max, knowing that this means she wil be desinherited?
Any way, i supose that most of his lands wil not accept his wil and rebel.

 

[DracoLazarus]

I can't wait to see more!
However, would Mary stil marry Max, knowing that this means she wil be desinherited?
Any way, i supose that most of his lands wil not accept his wil and rebel.

She doesn't know about the will. All she knew is that her father has thought of marrying her with Maximilian.
There is a low probability of revolt in the Burgondies, and Artois/Flanders will probably not revolt. Add to this that Louis doesn't burn to ashes cities, and that he has a stronger moral position than IOTL you will have at least at the end of the War of the Burgondian inheritance more Frenchllands due to less revolt.
Marie and Max simply won't accept the will. Burghers in the Netherlands, though... They have more to gain with Louis than Max due to Louis giving out extensive privileges to cities that surrender. (Like in Dijon IOTL) What's more they are not rebelling against their righteous lord, are they ?

 

[Avrorrange]

She doesn't know about the will. All she knew is that her father has thought of marrying her with Maximilian.
There is a low probability of revolt in the Burgondies, and Artois/Flanders will probably not revolt. Add to this that Louis doesn't burn to ashes cities, and that he has a stronger moral position than IOTL you will have at least at the end of the War of the Burgondian inheritance more Frenchllands due to less revolt.
Marie and Max simply won't accept the will. Burghers in the Netherlands, though... They have more to gain with Louis than Max due to Louis giving out extensive privileges to cities that surrender. (Like in Dijon IOTL) What's more they are not rebelling against their righteous lord, are they ?

How come Mary doesn't know about the will?If she doesn't know,at least Margaret of York should know about it.At the very least,wouldn't the will be proclaimed when the man kicks the bucket?

 

[kasumigenx]

I want to say this

the ties of Rene to Louis XI is that Louis XI is his Nephew via Marie of Anjou, the heir to Provence before Louis XI claimed Provence and Anjou is Charles IV of Provence, the son of Charles du Maine, when Charles du Maine died, the County of Provence went to Louis XI.

the Wife of Louis XI is Charlotte of Savoy...

There could be a war of succession to Provence between France and Aragon but it was stopped by the treaty of Corbeil that renounces Aragon's claims to those lands..

 

[DracoLazarus]

I want to say this

the ties of Rene to Louis XI is that Louis XI is his Nephew via Marie of Anjou, the heir to Provence before Louis XI claimed Provence and Anjou is Charles IV of Provence, the son of Charles du Maine, when Charles du Maine died, the Duchy of Provence went to Louis XI.

the Wife of Louis XI is Charlotte of Savoy...

There could be a war of succession to Provence between France and Aragon but it was stopped by the treaty of Corbeil that renounces Aragon's claims to those lands..

About the family ties between René and Louis : oops, my mistake. i'll edit it. I knew about Charles du Maine but he died soon after René.
Provence is no Duchy, it's still a County.
As for Aragon - these guys are going to get trashed sooner or later, they will not have the ressourcesnnor the political will to declare war over Provence. what's more IOTL when Louis bullied René they agreed on the succession line for Provence. Aragon was not in it.

Darthfanta :
The will will only be proclaimed when they're sure Charles is dead. IOTL he died a very gruesome death and it took time to find his body and ascertain it was him.
The will has been written in 3 copies. The first one is in Dijon and will (spoiler). The second one is on Charles himself and won't even be readable when they find him. The third one is on its way to Brussels and will be lost in heaps of parchment. It will be found, but not before the Dijon one.

 

[Avrorrange]

Darthfanta :
The will will only be proclaimed when they're sure Charles is dead. IOTL he died a very gruesome death and it took time to find his body and ascertain it was him.
The will has been written in 3 copies. The first one is in Dijon and will (spoiler). The second one is on Charles himself and won't even be readable when they find him. The third one is on its way to Brussels and will be lost in heaps of parchment. It will be found, but not before the Dijon one.

So Mary married Maximillian immediately after her father died and the proclamation of the will was somehow delayed?Why wasn't the will proclaimed immediately after Charles kicked the bucket?

About the family ties between René and Louis : oops, my mistake. i'll edit it. I knew about Charles du Maine but he died soon after René.
Provence is no Duchy, it's still a County.
As for Aragon - these guys are going to get trashed sooner or later, they will not have the ressourcesnnor the political will to declare war over Provence. what's more IOTL when Louis bullied René they agreed on the succession line for Provence. Aragon was not in it.

Bet you play CKII!

 

[DracoLazarus]

So Mary married Maximillian immediately after her father died and the proclamation of the will was somehow delayed?Why wasn't the will proclaimed immediately after Charles kicked the bucket?

It would be a spoiler. May I point that she would see Louis the Spider as an infamous land-grabber ? Who can protect her ? The King of the Romans maybe, ie Maximilian.

Bet you play CKII!

I wish I did. I'm currentky thinking of buying EU4. I play Civ4 though.
Provence remained a county until 1789. One of the French kings' titles after 1500 was Comte de Provence.

 

[kasumigenx]

About the family ties between René and Louis : oops, my mistake. i'll edit it. I knew about Charles du Maine but he died soon after René.
Provence is no Duchy, it's still a County.
As for Aragon - these guys are going to get trashed sooner or later, they will not have the ressourcesnnor the political will to declare war over Provence. what's more IOTL when Louis bullied René they agreed on the succession line for Provence. Aragon was not in it.

I forgot that Provence is a county..

 

[DracoLazarus]

I forgot that Provence is a county..

What makes it even weirder is that there is a small village in the south of Aix-en-Provence, Luynes, which was made a duchy by Louis XIII for his first favorite. I live there.