Dragos Cel Mare
Banned
Sorry to double-post, and also constructive: How are the Jews faring in Rhomanion?
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My first time commenting on this TL (though I've seen it before). Really great. Good job.
Also, I've seen a trend in most TLs - no matter how far back the POD, somehow, the non-European world is destined to not industrialize - unless there's the US or Canada. I don't often see a successful South America (or one at all, given how little people write about it), Africa, India, or East Asia.
I mean, somehow, it's always given that no other country can industrialize (or at least achieve great progress) without Western help. It would be really awesome if there was a modernized Ryuku Kingdom, tbh, and maybe a modernized Bahamas.
Also, I've seen a trend in most TLs - no matter how far back the POD, somehow, the non-European world is destined to not industrialize - unless there's the US or Canada. I don't often see a successful South America (or one at all, given how little people write about it), Africa, India, or East Asia.
I mean, somehow, it's always given that no other country can industrialize (or at least achieve great progress) without Western help. It would be really awesome if there was a modernized Ryuku Kingdom, tbh, and maybe a modernized Bahamas.
Deleted member 67076
Wow its been a minute since Ive posted here. Now I dont have an update for ya'll, but I saw the recent buzz and thought itd be rude to just ignore this.
Many thanks!
Im not a geographic determinist, so I get where you're coming from. Its quite annoying to see everyone else lag behind for no reason. Same with the lack of successful South America/Africa/Asia. I blame a lack of knowledge.
Re: Egyptian industrialization. Maybe. Too far in the future for me to give an answer now. It could happen though, although this would require much more land than it posses today. I *think* Sudan or Chad have coal. Need to check back on that.
And for other parts of the world, thats in the cards. Perhaps in India.
In theory yes, but as always there will be enclaves and muddled borders. Even after any attempted expulsions or conversions.
Badly. But better than Western Europe.
Many thanks!
Im not a geographic determinist, so I get where you're coming from. Its quite annoying to see everyone else lag behind for no reason. Same with the lack of successful South America/Africa/Asia. I blame a lack of knowledge.
Re: Egyptian industrialization. Maybe. Too far in the future for me to give an answer now. It could happen though, although this would require much more land than it posses today. I *think* Sudan or Chad have coal. Need to check back on that.
And for other parts of the world, thats in the cards. Perhaps in India.
On industrialization: The Song Dynasty came pretty close, someone in China could conceivably rediscover it and it could spread from East to West, imagine the Portuguese landing in Japan where they are doing industrial level warfare (WWI style warfare) for the warring states period
Industrialization isn't an invention, it's....complicated. Lots of moving parts that either kick into gear on their own or quit on you even with a jumpstart. It's not as simple as someone going....."Hey, lets just take this coal and burn it. I swear, it's worth it, just trust me."
Even if by some strange stroke of magical dwarf penis sacrifice that the East goes completely Steampunk, soot-faced with that 19th century can-do ambition, there'd be no reason for military tactics to remotely resemble WWI esque war making at all.
But regardless, that's still a neat ASB idea. Samurais charging over barbed wire with machine guns on their backs.
Dragos Cel Mare
Banned
Go on, both of you; I'm interested in the debate, although not knowledgeable enough to contribute...
Dragos Cel Mare
Banned
I assume they made no stupid move to offer Samurai to China during the Timurid Invasion, like in a certain other timeline, then?
Deleted member 67076
Oh no, Ive just been superbly busy. And near the Senegalese border with Mauritania, where internet has been limited.
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Deleted member 67076
I'm great.
Also, the adventure continues:
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Savoy’s invasion of Genoa came as an absolute shock. Savoy traditionally had held amicable relations with its neighbors (for the most part anyway), and thus Genoa’s was unable to adequately respond to the swift moves of the well trained Savoyard Army. In the subsequent year, much of Liguria was overrun. However, Genoa was not without allies and quickly summoned Milan to its defense. Always the stalwart ally, Milan promptly invaded Savoy, which caused Savoy to call in France. France agreed for 2 reasons: 1) her ambitions in Italy had her wanting for the fabulously wealthy Milanese Duchy, and 2) the current King of France wished to rid himself of the young yet already troublesome Duke of Berry via exiling him to a distant province via appointment. Once he had been dealt with, the French king would continue his path to centralization and expansion of royal authority.
France’s invasion sent shockwaves throughout Christendom. The image of French nobles setting up estates in Italy scared the Urban Burghers, who desperately valued their autonomy, it scared the Papacy in Rome which feared deposition and a solidification of the ‘Babylonian Exile’ of the so called Avignon Papacy (and an end to the Western Schism on the enemy's terms), and of course, the Holy Roman Emperor himself- currently the king of Bohemia- who had his own plans for the peninsula. This sent a number of counter invasions and mobilizations all throughout Europe on a scale unseen in arguably centuries. Bohemia, in the name of the Holy Roman Empire declared war on France ostensibly to protect the Papacy and linked up with Milan and a coalition of Northern Italian states who (rightfully) feared French Aggression.
When news reached Paris, the King of France reacted rather by further broadening the war. Driven by a common dislike of the Papacy and the possibility for mutual gain, he had little difficulty in convincing his ally, the Kingdom of Naples to attack the Papal States with impunity. Naples’ position regarding the current Schism (wholescale support of Avignon) further sweetened the deal. Naples could take as much as she wanted in the Papal States, without repercussion. In all this, Venice maintained armed neutrality and generally tried to play all sides against each other, selling as much arms and equipment as possible while grabbing territory when they could. The recent decades had been relatively generous to them, with an expansion of their Italian holdings. Here presented a chance to open up new opportunities for expansion in the future as the regional powers exhausted themselves.
The bottom line in all this is over the course of a mere year, Italy was in flames, and suddenly Romanian debt was the least of Genoa’s problems. Combined with a brutal decisive loss outside the gates of Constantinople by a combined Roman-Bulgarian force. (Although to be fair the Roman-Bulgarian force suffered heavily as well) Genoa scrambled, withdrawing her Aegean fleet and the remainder of her mercenaries back to the homeland to fight against Savoy. They could always return later after all. The Savoyards were eventually rebuffed from their siege of Genoa thanks to the timely arrival of reinforcements and the enemy’s need to split their forces to fight Milan and company, but much of Liguria lay under Savoyard control.
Seeing the way the wind was blowing, a quick peace treaty was signed and Genoa agreed to give up control of Monaco and the surrounding areas to Savoy in exchange for peace. A small price to pay for stabilizing the situation. Yet it was not the time for Savoy to return to normalcy; Milan had still mobilized her troops, and would not be satisfied with her rival’s improved geostrategic position. And so the war front shifted northeast as Northern Italy’s largest powers battled for supremacy of the Po Valley.
Despite being outnumbered by Milanese forces, Savoy managed to keep a stalemate for the time being until the French soldiers arrived en route to Milan, where in which the tide (briefly) shifted to the favor of the Avignon Alliance. Until of course, reinforcements from the Papal states, Tuscany and Bohemia kicked the French out of Milan where they bunkered down in the Alpines.
France would return with a vengeance the following year after licking their wounds and sending additional reinforcements.
One might wonder why France, heavyweight of Europe, was so tied down rather quickly in Italy despite its massive demographic advantages and military innovations stemming from its decade long struggle with England and her allies. The reason is that frankly, the French still were pretty exhausted from the Hundred Years War. The English may have lost their continental possessions, but decades of warfare, destruction, plague and economic crisis have taken their toll on the country. France had been depopulated, the crown was low on funds and peasant revolts grew increasingly frequent as the decades passed.
Additionally, there was the fact that these military innovations weren’t much of a bonus in Italy. The Condottieri mercenary companies that formed the bulk of the Italian armies during this time period were equally (and arguably in many cases better) equipped and disciplined as their French counterparts. Furthermore, these men knew the Italian terrain much better than the invaders, adding yet another powerful advantage. And then of course was the Holy Roman Emperor’s levies, who were not to be dismissed.
To the south, in Naples the picture was much more different. Naples had been having a very good century -relatively speaking- in contrast to most of the continent. Sure, the plague and other stresses did their damage, but by and large the rule was stability and (a decent amount of) prosperity. It should not come as a surprise that in this time of war, the Neapolitans managed to raise a fairly impressive army and march with little difficulty north. Unlike previous spats with the Papal states, this was a war of conquest, and it showed. Every fortress and every city was a target, and every bit of resistance was to be crushed with extreme force. With the bulk of Papal forces obviously north, there was little that could be done in the initial weeks of this invasion. When Papal forces shifted south (and these were primarily Papal forces- Bohemia and Tuscany and other were far more concerned with kicking the French out) they found a picture very different than the one that they left.
The holy city of Rome, and the broader region of Lazio, had fallen to the Schismatics.
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