Map Thread XII

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I started munroifying this but then gave up. The POD is that the Mamluks are informed of Muhammad Ali's plans and thus avoid being massacred; they ultimately attain total power in Egypt. Butterflies mean that Napoleon is defeated a bit sooner and Britain is able to turn around and crush the United States, resulting in the New England states and Maryland seceding and the rump collapsing in on itself multiple times. After that, a lot of things go very differently.

First Emp NZ and then you do a "Bad war of 1812 makes US collapse like a souffle?" If this is a trend, I'm not entirely happy with it. :p

2 Glad to be free of South America. Not as great of a immigrant magnet as Maryland or Mexico, but they got their fair share. Mostly Hungarians, though Frenchies hold plurality.

Maryland is a bit small to attract a lot of immigrants, I'd think. So the big slaveocracy is the "United States of South America?" Seems like that would be confusing, given that it's in North America. :)


7 The Czar's titles include 'Lord of the (Geographic) Poles'. They also include 'Prince of Kentucky', but don't tell the Russians- or the South Americans for that matter.

What's the year?

8 Napoleon stayed on Elba, so the Brits never needed this island. Instead, one of the hundreds of Russian expeditions ended up here. Vozneseniya never informed St. Petersburg they were a colony.

It was owned by the East India company from 1658.

9 Maryland's power is ostensibly on par with TTL's Netherlands, but their army is singlehandedly the best man for man in the world. They've actually shown great restraint in colony shopping.

Great restraint and and very little interest in actual profitability, apparently.

12 "One State, Two Nations"- A political ideology dominant in Prussia from the 1880s: The Prussian Poles and Prussian Germans, equal halves of the Prussian identity.

(Applause)

17 The Mamluks are quite tolerant; Sunnis only make up about half of the population these days. Their French-model army has been having foreign adventures and they're building a canal.

Who are the non-Sunnis made up of?


20 The Bristol Conferences forced this on them. Mostly Swahilis and Arabs still, but Japanese colonists are starting to arrive en masse.

I don't think you can force an independent nation to take a colony: at most you can give them a choice between taking what's behind door number 2 or nothing at all. :)

Fine job, overall.

Bruce
 
So I had an idea while at work a couple days ago. Tonight I'm pulling a 24 because I have to work at 0700 and wouldn't normally go to sleep until about now anyway. So I made this little monstrosity to pass the time.

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The Peace of Versailles ends World War I a bit differently than IOTL.

Poland is only given the entirity of West Prussia and Posen. Danzig is initially a Free City but joins Poland in 1940.

With all of Silesia, Brandenburg (Neumark), And Pomerania being German, and the Wiemar's fight against the Allied demands (although they lost), Hitler's ascent to power is relatively normal.

In 1936, shortly after Rearmament, Hitler gets a wild hair in his ass. For some god-blessed reason, he decides that the Jews aren't to blame for the War. Instead he opts to blame Russian and French Aggression as well as British Interventionism. After a successful rise of the Nazi Part in Switzerland, many of French ancestry leave the western regions and return to France or move to the US. Hitler convinces Wilhelm Gostluff to allow for Jewish Emigration to Switzerland, as opposed to his plans of extermination.

Between 1936 and 1938, Hitler spends much of his time reading up on the ancient histories of the Eastern Germanic populations. He rallies the worlds best language professors to Germany in a conference to determine whether it would be feasible to recreate a dead language. By 1939, a full education curriculum is established. East Prussia is given the curriculum, the funds, and the experts available to teach students between 14 and 25 ancient Gothic. By 1940, Hitler's Rearmament policies have made Germany the most technologically advanced military on Continental Europe. Franco's Spain wins the Civil War. Sweden turns fully Fascist. Prussian men and women, now of effective breeding age, are spurred on by Hitler's charisma to only teach their children Gothic, leaving German as a second language in the region and to be used "only in the Fatherland." Hitler starts immigrating Irish, Persian, and Swedish women into the region. While all German women are forcibly moved back to Germany.

"World War II" kicks off in 1942 with the Soviet Invasion of Poland. Hitler feels as though he needs to save Poland in order to save his Gothic experiment. So Hitler launches an attack on Russia. France, having elected a Communist government in 1938 quickly joins the Russians and attack Germany. German Rearmament proves too much for France so they fall behind the Maginot Line. Spain and Italy launch attacks into Southern France, in the process temporarily inciting a Fascist Occitan Revolt. Germany blows through the Maginot Line and smashes France hard. France is knocked out by the start of Winter in 1942. Sweden sends her armies into Finland to assist with the Winter War. Finland-Sweden crush the Soviets, giving all of Karelia to Finland. Sweden is, in exchange, given Aland by Finland. Oscar Keunen rises to power in the Netherlands and strengthens the Fascist/Nazi power bloc. By Spring 1943, the Soviets are turned back from Poland and defeated handily in Minsk and Kiev. The war ends soon after. Alsace is turned over to Germany, Lorraine remains French. Germany is relieved of all debt owed to France that was enforced during the Treaty of Versailles. Polish independence is guaranteed. And Russia secedes Karelia to Finland in addition to demilitarizing Belorussia and Ukraine. Hitler passes in 1947.

By 1955, only half of the population in Prussia uses German as a second language. Gothic has become the predominant language. Germany offers Prussia a referendum on independence at this point. It passes. The territory styles itself as, "The Gothic Republic of Prussia." The region becomes rather unstable during the Soviet Invasions of Europe. Soviet-backed Communist governments spring up all over Eastern Europe, leaving Greece, Germany, and Austria as the only nations who survive. Gothic Military Coups occur for years until the Communist regime is overthrown in 1986. The Goths, now as strong as ITTL Isreal are surrounded by Communist nations. Communist Poland and Soviet Russia. The Goths take the Memelland in 1987 and hold it until 1995. The Soviet Union doesn't collapse as in OTL, but loses their hegemony on Eastern Europe between 1991 and 1996 with Poland as the last nation to be rid of Communism.

Germany supplies the Netherlands, Switzerland, Austria, and Prussia with their military equipment. Sweden maintains older German hardware, but supplies most of its own equipment in addition to supplying Finland. Since the restoration of a democratically elected, Capitalist economic government in Prussia, the term has been dropped from nearly all usage in modern contexts. The government and the People have been calling themselves Goths and view their nation as Gothonica, not Prussia. The population has become incredibly mixed since Hitler's immigration policies. The Gothic populations are nearly all Olive skinned, with Red or Brown hair, Blue eyes, and voluptuous figures.

And this is Europe as it would be in this Bizarre world.

Hitler's Wild Hairy Ass.png

Hitler's Wild Hairy Ass.png
 
First Emp NZ and then you do a "Bad war of 1812 makes US collapse like a souffle?" If this is a trend, I'm not entirely happy with it. :p
It was in no way inspired by other recent maps, I assure you.
Maryland is a bit small to attract a lot of immigrants, I'd think. So the big slaveocracy is the "United States of South America?" Seems like that would be confusing, given that it's in North America. :)
Well, consider how it would be for the affluent abolitionists and other northerners- stay put and get treated like trash or leave. Your choices, then, are to try to get along with the 'brit loving' New Englanders, the foreigners in the supposedly barren West, the British, or Maryland. Maryland seemed like the best option. Later, the same factours forcing people to leave the old world still exist- and at this point? If you're not British or French, the friendliest looking place in the Americas is certainly Maryland. To the extant that the largest language is German in the modern era, even now but especially after the upcoming Great Wars. Of course, you can tell by looking that Europe has been a chaotic place since the POD, and some places are quite depopulated when compared to OTL.
As for the South American Federation, the concept of a State died with the Union in 1867, and the concept of divisions with any useful autonomy whatsoever is slow in the comeback.
What's the year?
The year is about 1910-1915; just prior to the first Great War. Few countries are not part of one of the five major alliance systems; it's lining up to be a true mess.
It was owned by the East India company from 1658.
That's extremely arguable, considering that that is Ascension and not Saint Helena.
Great restraint and and very little interest in actual profitability, apparently.
Of course, better to set a good counterexample to the South Americans whilst giving your allies' spies a gateway into the Muslim world then have to deal with subjugating a large area- and after all, they were late to the game. They could have been bullies in The Bristol Conferences or even bought/stole colonies beforehand, but at the time profitability was low everywhere. Their Chinese interests- not all are depicted- are by far the more profitable.
Who are the non-Sunnis made up of?
French expies who disliked the Italian options, a resurgent Coptic populace, people fleeing strife further up the Nile, and as of late immigrant workers from across South Asia. Oh, and an awful lot of Georgians who see Egypt as a great Georgian Empire-in-exile because of the Mamluk elite. That notion is usually ruined pretty quickly, but a few influential writers can do all sorts of things to a downtrodden nation. There are also Jews, Spaniards, lots of Greeks and others.
I don't think you can force an independent nation to take a colony: at most you can give them a choice between taking what's behind door number 2 or nothing at all. :)
At the time of The Bristol Conferences, both France and Britain were very much up in arms and in everyone's faces with 'Maintain the bloody status quo!'. They demanded that the states they construed as being most powerful should get a slice of the pie, nevermind that those states didn't want any. Others, like Russia, went along with it because they figured it would prove a nice distraction. The Asians went with it because they figured they could let private groups do the work, and after all, what head of state would give up the chance to nearly double their territory?
Fine job, overall.
Thankee.
 

Dorozhand

Banned
It would be nice if you get Fulgencio Yegros, Fernando de la Mora, or any other Paraguayan Prócer as first president ;)



And there was no USA nor Monroe Doctrine that could save Argentina, I see and it make sense. In fact, turbulent times are always good for getting butterflies hit quickly around the area.



It all make sense, you just need the names for the most important people: politicians, generals and commanders, and so on.


Alright, here's a complete history:


In 1811, Paraguay declares independence. General Juan Romulo Echevarria, experienced fighting the Spanish in Peru and having studied in France, after driving out Spanish garrisons from Asuncion, becomes the first Consul of the Republic of Paraguay.

Echevarria works to establish democratic traditions in Paraguay, abolishing slavery and declaring all peoples equal before the law. The 1812 Constitution is modeled after the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen. The country is organized into unitary departments like France, with a senate ruling in Asuncion whose powers are checked by the judiciary and the constitution itself. The Consul is elected by popular vote from the Senate to a five year term as head of state.

This system works for Echevarria's rule, as he is popular and wields great influence. However, discontent brews against his centralist outlook among the common people and against his egalitarianism from the nobles. When he runs for a second term as Consul in 1816, he is assassinated and civil war ensues between various senator-generals, nobles, ethnicities, and peasant movements. Several unstable nobility-led and liberalist-led governments are set up and deposed in Asuncion over several years.

In 1822, the country is again united under the Army of the Conception led by General Desiderio Cruz de Vizcaya. The army is a collection of peasant farmer volunteers, city dwellers and other common peoples. In 1823, a new constitution is adopted which was inspired by the 1821 Constitution of Mexico. The French style department system was scrapped in favour of a system of federated states, the head of state became a President, and the legislature was divided into a Senate and a Chamber of Deputies.

Meanwhile in Rio de la Plata, the civil wars which plagued the United Provinces of South America last longer. Royalists and Republicans, as well as separatist movements fight one another for two decades without a clear winner, and the country is a failed state.

Finally, in 1831, a centralist general named Cassio Diaz de Santiago gains enough power and influence to align the Rio de la Plata province around his government in Buenos Aires. He rules as a dictator, believing that the people can only ever be ruled by dictators, and adopts a ruthlessly unitary system, military state, and protectionist economy centred on Buenos Aires called the Directorate of Platinia.

He clings to power for years, dragging the country into the ground fighting royalists and independence movements. In 1836 his army invades Paraguay, but badly led and with poor morale, it is pushed back disastrously after attempting to besiege Asuncion. In 1838, the British and French invade Platinia to collect the massive debts incured by Santiago's mismanagement and his wars. They occupy Buenos Aires, and soon Santiago's government collapses and he is killed by mutinous soldiers.

The royalists, aided by the British and French, then set up a government in Buenos Aires called the Empire of Platinia, led by a regency council which elects Prince Louis of the House of Orleans (ruling house of France at the time) as Luis I of Platinia.

In Paraguay, the Federal Republic managed to gain a great deal of stability and prosperity. It participated in the invasion of Argentina along with the British and French and gained territory, drawing a new southern border along the Bermejo.

Attracting foreign investors and being in control of its important waterways increased the wealth of the nation. It invested significantly in its army and riverine navy.

In the 1840s, German, Italian, Spanish, Irish, Scottish, Polish, and Greek immigrants began settling along the Colorado, Negro, Chubut, and Deseado rivers. Platinia being in no position to control them, and lacking any other central authority, they established the Republic of Patagonia in 1859.

In 1866, Brazil invaded Uruguay due to internal political happenings in that country, and in response Paraguay, Bolivia, and Peru declared war. Platinia and Chile (citing as casus belli the Bolivian nationalization of Chilean mining companies) joined on the side of Brazil, and Patagonia declared war on Platinia.

The alliance was victorious due to the difficult terrain of Paraguay, the well trained Paraguayan soldiers, and Paraguay's riverine navy which routinely denied crossings to Brazilian soldiers, who were plagued by disease and guerilla warfare to be run down in battle by Paraguayan cavalry. Bolivia's army defeated Chile's in Antofagasta and the Chilean navy was defeated by the navies of Bolivia and Peru. Bolivia participated in the Brazilian war in Mato Grosso, while Uruguay put up a tenacious resistance and Patagonia prevented much Platinian progress elsewhere. Towards the end of the war, Brazil collapsed into civil war as the Republic of Rio Grande do Sul seceded.

Today, Paraguay is a prosperous nation of 16 states and a federal district.
The colours of the flag represent (from the bottom up) religion, liberty, and independence. The values on which the federation was founded. Another interpretation is that it represents the sun, the rivers, and the land.
 
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A rough map of the Future Avatar world after the Korra Series and at the start of perhaps another series! Credit for Base map and key goes to Ephraim Ben Raphael. I might try to think up a good TL for it. Depends on how much time I have. I'm going to college right now.

As you can see; much of it is speculation... The Earth Kingdom is fractured. Years have gone by and new empires have arisen despite the Avatar, (Mainly because 2 were killed young so the empires had time to grow...) including a neo Equalist group.

The Air Unions are separate from Tenzins "jedi-like" Nomads. But are still pacifist they just aren't nomads anymore and are much more populous allowing for full blown settlement of the areas around the temples.
A UR treaty after the defeat of the Metal "fascists" took even more land from Ba-Sing-Se and gave the Northern Union some land.

PS. I'm still waiting on Emperor of New Zealand to continue his Avatar series from the last map thread....

Avatar as of Third Series.png
 
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A rough map of the Future Avatar world after the Korra Series and at the start of perhaps another series! Credit for Base map and key goes to Ephraim Ben Raphael. I might try to think up a good TL for it. Depends on how much time I have. I'm going to college right now.

PS. I'm still waiting on EBR to continue his Avatar series from the last map thread....

What? I've never made an Avatar map in my life. I think you're giving credit to the wrong person.:confused: Do you mean rvbomalley?
 
Bigger Spanish Civil War

Current Date: 5/31/37
POD: 7/20/36
Rough idea, basically Republicans and Nationalists uppercut each other until the Republicans have the Nationalists in a choke hold (Nationalists over-committed to a battle north of Madrid), but then Deus Ex Germania. After that the Nationalists are in no position to argue with the Germans, and so this.
Germany has basically annexed the northwest, and the rest is divided between the "joint" cooperation between the Nationalists and the Wehrmacht/Royal Italian Army. Republicans are still guerrilla-ing by Zaragoza (even though there's been a treaty), so they've got that going for them.
The USA and the USSR declared embargoes on Germany for a bit, but gave up by the time the Republicans were doomed. France was pro-Nationalist for a bit but gave that up once Germany and Italy got involved. Meanwhile, Mao's China is slowly falling apart after reaching its territorial apex a couple months ago, and Italy has annexed Albania and puppetized Yemen. Obviously, no one likes either Franco, Hitler, or Mussolini by now, even probably themselves. WWII promises to be eventful.
(sorry about the tiny map)

Bigger Spanish Civil War 1.png
 
When it comes to individual people, you really don't need some elaborate chains of events. 200 million sperm, 1 egg. Any change in the timing or position in which your parents have sex that evening, a brother or sister is born instead. As individuals, we're all supremely unlikely.

It is true. But even then, someone who unites the Mongol tribes, gets called "Genghis Khan" (universal ruler) and goes on a spree of conquest might occur on many different timelines. Assuming that OTL is not a particularly special timeline (in the same way that those speculating on Earth-like worlds assume that Earth is not a particularly special planet), and then assuming a large number of potential timelines, even with an early PoD, a military genius could arise among the Mongols in the 12th century. It's just as likely as anything else, and we know it's possible. So, I don't see the problem with including such OTL elements largely as one sees fit for the sake of creating the timeline they want.

It would be better for plausibility to change names, appearances and personality features, for sure. Hitting the randomize button in post-PoD births is a good idea. But hey, the same or very similar could very well pop up again and have similar or at least analogous effects.

I think part of the problem is that we view alternate history plausibility through the lens of our own timeline. "Nixon, the car salesman, ridiculous!" Sure. But in Car-Salesman-Nixon-TL's perspective, OTL doesn't exist and isn't relevant to internal consistency. He was always just a car salesman in British America. Is he even the same guy? Maybe it's just a guy that looks the same as OTL Nixon, has the same name, and acts sleazy. Hell, I have met weird dopplegangers with weirdly similar names to people I know in this world a few times, so assuming a whole different history with different individuals, such things would be even more likely. If he talks like a Nixon and quacks like a Nixon, then he's Nixon regardless of what and were he sprung from or if he's actually genetically unrelated.
 
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on some of that: I don't really want to do this argument.

Hey, no maps from you in a while, tormsen. Real life devouring too much of your time lately?

Bruce
 
A rough map of the Future Avatar world after the Korra Series and at the start of perhaps another series! Credit for Base map and key goes to Ephraim Ben Raphael. I might try to think up a good TL for it. Depends on how much time I have. I'm going to college right now.

Gah, ninja'd.

I too am working on a Future Avatar world map. TL is (mostly) worked out, though I haven't finished writing it down yet - too much other things to do. :eek:
 
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on some of that: I don't really want to do this argument.

Hey, no maps from you in a while, tormsen. Real life devouring too much of your time lately?

Bruce

Fair enough. I have to admit though, while I don't entirely agree with your position on this on a philosophical level, most of my work (with some exceptions) is largely based on it anyway.

Yeah, real life has been hectic. I have more than a few ideas, though, so hopefully I will produce something new soon.
 
Current Date: 5/31/37
POD: 7/20/36
Rough idea, basically Republicans and Nationalists uppercut each other until the Republicans have the Nationalists in a choke hold (Nationalists over-committed to a battle north of Madrid), but then Deus Ex Germania. After that the Nationalists are in no position to argue with the Germans, and so this.
Germany has basically annexed the northwest, and the rest is divided between the "joint" cooperation between the Nationalists and the Wehrmacht/Royal Italian Army. Republicans are still guerrilla-ing by Zaragoza (even though there's been a treaty), so they've got that going for them.
The USA and the USSR declared embargoes on Germany for a bit, but gave up by the time the Republicans were doomed. France was pro-Nationalist for a bit but gave that up once Germany and Italy got involved. Meanwhile, Mao's China is slowly falling apart after reaching its territorial apex a couple months ago, and Italy has annexed Albania and puppetized Yemen. Obviously, no one likes either Franco, Hitler, or Mussolini by now, even probably themselves. WWII promises to be eventful.
(sorry about the tiny map)

Very interesting concept! And Italian Yemen, interesting...
 
Current Date: 5/31/37
POD: 7/20/36
Rough idea, basically Republicans and Nationalists uppercut each other until the Republicans have the Nationalists in a choke hold (Nationalists over-committed to a battle north of Madrid), but then Deus Ex Germania. After that the Nationalists are in no position to argue with the Germans, and so this.
Germany has basically annexed the northwest, and the rest is divided between the "joint" cooperation between the Nationalists and the Wehrmacht/Royal Italian Army. Republicans are still guerrilla-ing by Zaragoza (even though there's been a treaty), so they've got that going for them.
The USA and the USSR declared embargoes on Germany for a bit, but gave up by the time the Republicans were doomed. France was pro-Nationalist for a bit but gave that up once Germany and Italy got involved. Meanwhile, Mao's China is slowly falling apart after reaching its territorial apex a couple months ago, and Italy has annexed Albania and puppetized Yemen. Obviously, no one likes either Franco, Hitler, or Mussolini by now, even probably themselves. WWII promises to be eventful.
(sorry about the tiny map)
Good to see someone finally do something with the Italians leaning on Yemen. Perhaps the Italians would also occupy some or all of the Baelerics. Or to get the light brown for influencing an area into Tangier. Similar to the way Monaco is filled in.
 
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