Keynes' Cruisers

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Story 0823
November 22, 1941 Klin, near Moscow

The frozen ground had allowed the 3rd and 4th Panzer Groups to resume their advance. Soviet counter-attacks at the start of the month had been brushed aside but the lack of supplies had not allowed for a rapid counter-attack to take advantage of the temporary defeats. The Red Army was fighting harder and far more importantly, smarter in the past week. The few T-34 and British infantry tanks at the front had to be dealt with by swarms, but the Reds would retreat when the tactical situation warranted it and they would unleash a division’s worth of artillery when the German main body exposed themselves.

Now the fighting in Klin was the grinding, bloody and slow fight of infantry and engineers against each other. Victories were measured by apartment blocks. The German infantry regiments were forcing the Russian infantrymen further back every other rush. One of the greatest delays of the advance was that each time a room had been cleared, German infantry took the time to grab the warm winter gear that their opponents were fighting in. Some units had received coats and gloves but not all. Frostbite was almost as dangerous as landmines.

One hundred miles south of Klin, the 2nd Panzer Group had masked Tula and the first elements were over the Upa River. As night fell, a fresh from training tank brigade counter-attacked and it was supported by a fresh infantry division that had detrained from the Trans-Baikal three days earlier. Valentines and Churchills blunted the bridgehead even as the German anti-tank defenses extracted their own toll on the raw defenders.

The next morning, the attacks on both sides continued even as the German lorries that were supposed to carry fuel to the spearheads dwindled in numbers and were delayed by weather, partisans and air raids. Fuel and shells arrived at the front but the replenishments were insufficient to replace all of the prior day’s consumption.
 
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November 22, 1941 MCAS Ewa, Oahu

“Gentlemen, we will be shipping out for overseas duty on December 20th. We will be the garrison for Samoa. Our mission will be to hold the island against all attack while also improving the facilities to guard the sea lanes between the United States and Australia.

The 2nd Marine Brigade is ready for war. Accompanying us will be VMF 111, VMS 87, Defense Battalion 3, A Company, 1st Marine Tank Battalion and 3/11 Marines. The Navy is chopping to us Naval Construction Battalion 12, Patrol Squadron 33 and PT Squadron Seven.

This is a powerful force. We have been training hard together in Hawaii against the Army and Army Air Corps, but over the next three weeks, we will be at war. Tomorrow until December 1st is a maintenance stand-down. Between December 2nd and December 11th, Samoa Force will act as if we are under siege. Dawn patrols will be flown, unidentified aircraft will be intercepted, defenses will be dug, and every contact will be treated as hostile until positively identified as friendly. On December 12th, we will stand down to repair our equipment and review the lessons that we will have learned. Our men will get a few days of liberty in Honolulu before we load our equipment at Pearl Harbor on the 15th. We depart on the afternoon tide on the 20th.

Live ammunition will be carried by all aircraft, and live fire exercises are being arranged for all units. We will be ready when our country asks us to do our duty.


Any questions?”



The room erupted with noise as the rumors had been confirmed. They would be going to war, or at least getting ready for a war that almost everyone knew was coming. Bets would be paid off. Samoa had been the leader around the turn, but Luzon, Guam and Australia had been seen as reasonable bets. One man had placed a month’s salary on New Caledonia and he was lucky that his girl turned down his offer of marriage.


Oh oh, gonna be a urprise on a certain Sunday morning. Armed and up at dawn Fighters an Scout Squadron, fully equipped Defense battalion including AAA
 
Oh oh, gonna be a surprise on a certain Sunday morning. Armed and up at dawn Fighters an Scout Squadron, fully equipped Defense battalion including AAA
Not at 100% Availability.

Also remember, there is a 2 carrier US Task Force returning home from the west by southwest of Pearl Harbor. This is a live training opportunity. Not everything/everyone is ready to jump on an incoming raid.
 
Not at 100% Availability.

Also remember, there is a 2 carrier US Task Force returning home from the west by southwest of Pearl Harbor. This is a live training opportunity. Not everything/everyone is ready to jump on an incoming raid.
Oh I agree Fester, but compated to OTL this could lived things up. Is the VMF Wildcat or Buffalo equipped? The VMS equipped with SBD, or Vindicators? Also did the Defense battalion have anything between 3"50 cal AAA, and the .50 cal WC Browning? I remember you were working on dual as well as quad 1.1"; did not remember if there was a ground mount too?
 
Yes. I'd be surprised if the Japanese timetable can be adjusted much, if at all. The fuel load for Kido Butai was just sufficient to get them to the launch point on Sunday 7th at a specified cruising speed. They couldn't have taken significantly less time in transit as a faster cruising speed would use far more fuel. I think it's a cube law relationship, doubling the speed multiplies the fuel cost eightfold.

So if the Japanese task forces could depart a couple of days ahead of OTL, that's all they'd gain. IF they want the PH attack to be on a Sunday they're stuck with the OTL date or later.
Japanese timetable during the initial stages of the Pacific War was pretty much based on luck and predictability. And also a preconceived notion of what the British, Dutch and Americans would do.

Break any of those, and the whole thing falls apart.

November 22, 1941 MCAS Ewa, Oahu

“Gentlemen, we will be shipping out for overseas duty on December 20th. We will be the garrison for Samoa. Our mission will be to hold the island against all attack while also improving the facilities to guard the sea lanes between the United States and Australia.

The 2nd Marine Brigade is ready for war. Accompanying us will be VMF 111, VMS 87, Defense Battalion 3, A Company, 1st Marine Tank Battalion and 3/11 Marines. The Navy is chopping to us Naval Construction Battalion 12, Patrol Squadron 33 and PT Squadron Seven.

This is a powerful force. We have been training hard together in Hawaii against the Army and Army Air Corps, but over the next three weeks, we will be at war. Tomorrow until December 1st is a maintenance stand-down. Between December 2nd and December 11th, Samoa Force will act as if we are under siege. Dawn patrols will be flown, unidentified aircraft will be intercepted, defenses will be dug, and every contact will be treated as hostile until positively identified as friendly. On December 12th, we will stand down to repair our equipment and review the lessons that we will have learned. Our men will get a few days of liberty in Honolulu before we load our equipment at Pearl Harbor on the 15th. We depart on the afternoon tide on the 20th.

Live ammunition will be carried by all aircraft, and live fire exercises are being arranged for all units. We will be ready when our country asks us to do our duty.


Any questions?”



The room erupted with noise as the rumors had been confirmed. They would be going to war, or at least getting ready for a war that almost everyone knew was coming. Bets would be paid off. Samoa had been the leader around the turn, but Luzon, Guam and Australia had been seen as reasonable bets. One man had placed a month’s salary on New Caledonia and he was lucky that his girl turned down his offer of marriage.
They will never reach Samoa...... thank you Kido Butai....
 
were forcing the Russian infantrymen further back every other.
"every other" every other what? or was that a weird typo for 'every day' or something?

Some units had received coats and gloves but not all. Frostbite was almost as dangerous as landmines.
November 22. Near Moscow. Most of the troops have no GLOVES or COATS!!!?!?!?!?
It's amazing the German army didn't just freeze to death on the spot in the coming month.
 
Oh I agree Fester, but compated to OTL this could lived things up. Is the VMF Wildcat or Buffalo equipped? The VMS equipped with SBD, or Vindicators? Also did the Defense battalion have anything between 3"50 cal AAA, and the .50 cal WC Browning? I remember you were working on dual as well as quad 1.1"; did not remember if there was a ground mount too?

Wildcats (This is Jaroschek's squadron) and Dauntlesses.

The defense battalion has 12 3 inch AA guns, 24 .50 cal WC Brownings, and 12 37mm Brownings for AA.
 
Wildcats (This is Jaroschek's squadron) and Dauntlesses.

The defense battalion has 12 3 inch AA guns, 24 .50 cal WC Brownings, and 12 37mm Brownings for AA.
Wildcats can do good against the torp and dive bombers, since the F4F-3 is equipped with the .50 Browning M2HB, which in hindsight was pretty good at shredding Japanese aircraft. Don't think they can fight the Zero in a turn fight unless they want it to be scrap metal dotting the countryside.

Any other aircraft other than the Marine aircraft?

November 22. Near Moscow. Most of the troops have no GLOVES or COATS!!!?!?!?!?
It's amazing the German army didn't just freeze to death on the spot in the coming month.
The Germans in Operation Barbarossa really expected the campaign to be wrapped up before November..... so they never planned.
 

Driftless

Donor
If the initial resistance to Japanese attacks is more effective and that significantly reduces their OTL perimeter, that's good for the Allies. At the same stroke, doesn't that also shorten up the Japanese logistical problems as well? They're less over-extended?
 
If the initial resistance to Japanese attacks is more effective and that significantly reduces their OTL perimeter, that's good for the Allies. At the same stroke, doesn't that also shorten up the Japanese logistical problems as well? They're less over-extended?
If they don't get the oil fields then extension does not really matter as no oil, no move
 
The Germans didn't think the invasion of the Soviet Union through (hell, if Hitler read his history, he'd know that invading Russia was one of the causes of Napoleon's downfall a century earlier)...
 
The Germans didn't think the invasion of the Soviet Union through (hell, if Hitler read his history, he'd know that invading Russia was one of the causes of Napoleon's downfall a century earlier)...
No one can invade Russia in the winter...

Unless you are the Mongols.

 
My favorite, "Blues Brothers".

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Good point. I was assuming they got the DEI; but if they're stymied in Malaya and the Philippines, the DEI is problematic isn't it?
Oil has to get from the DEI to Mainland Japan. If we are to assume the Japanese conquer at least some oil ports/oil installations here are some interdiction possibilities in no particular order

1) Air raids on ports
2) Mines outside of ports
3) Surface action groups
4) Carrier raids
5) submarines
6) Armed recon by medium bombers
7) Effective commando/raider/guerrilla sabotage

In OTL, the Japanese oil lifeline was mainly threatened only by #5 (submarines) for 2+ years and even then it was getting squeezed hard. IF Malaya and/or Central Philippines are in long term Allied hands, the more secure passageway for oil has to go east of Borneo so that adds some serious shipping constraints. I would be seeing a whole lot of gardening going on
 
I wonder if the Marines will be working in conjunction with the radar in Hawaii, which is ahead of where it was OTL. If the Marine air units catch the Japanese first wave further out from Hawaii, no matter what this is going to be a big plus for the US. There will be inevitable disruption of attack formations over and above those aircraft shot down or too badly damaged to make their attack runs, so fewer aircraft over Pearl than OTL. Every minute of warning PH and the other military bases gets means watertight doors can be closed, battle stations manned, and ships can begin to get steam up. On land some fighters will get off. AA emplacements will be manned and with ammo compared with OTL, and folks will be in trenches rather than in barracks. All of this adds up to less damage for the US, and more losses for the Japanese and this is only for the first wave. The second wave is going to be hit harder and do less damage also.

If the Japanese are encountered 50+ miles out, this means perhaps 15 minutes extra warning for PH as a whole. Of course if encountered a little further out more time. At least for the ships at Pearl, I can't imagine that they can't get closed up at GQ, condition Z set throughout the ship, and batteries manned and loaded with 15 minutes warning.

Those aircraft headed for Ewa are going to be in for a world of hurt - wonder if any other fighters can get off on 15-20 minutes notice.
 
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