And all this makes it crazier when you know that Yamamoto ordered the attack to continue even if they were discovered 24 hours in advance.
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And all this makes it crazier when you know that Yamamoto ordered the attack to continue even if they were discovered 24 hours in advance.
Yes nice addition,til only. I know, A couple of Army 37mm batteries were present at the airfields,but were in operationtoo late to beuseful.
Thanks for the aircraftconfirmation.
To be entirely fair, if the American's do something equally crazy like raise steam on the entire Pacific Fleet and come charging out at the Kido Butai, that's all the well and good for the IJN... But if they sit in Pearl Harbor and fort up...
Does the Air Station, at Ewa,monitor the Naval District communications? If so how would they react to the Ward's submarine attack report?
Imo, any warning prior to about 0500 on 7December could lead to worse results. If the fleet and capitol ships are less than 30 miles south of Oahu, they would be still very vulnerable to air attack in open water which would lead to total losses of vessels with serious damage and much higher. Dew losses.
As proved by Force Z easily avoiding everything thrown at it?
Post-war, Nimitz reckoned that if Kimmel had had 24 hours warning of the attack, he would have sailed to engage the Kido Butai and lost the entire Pacific Fleet with 6000 dead.
As proved by Force Z easily avoiding everything thrown at it?
Post-war, Nimitz reckoned that if Kimmel had had 24 hours warning of the attack, he would have sailed to engage the Kido Butai and lost the entire Pacific Fleet with 6000 dead.
Force Z attack: 49 Japanese torpedoes launched, only 8 hits, 4 per ship. PoW suffered a critical torpedo hit and lost all power, allowing for an easy further 3 hits.
Pearl Harbor attack: 40 torpedoes, 19 hits.
Nimitz' reckonings are not necessarily historical fact.
Would a attack on the USN fleet at sea not have far more B5Ns with torpedoes? OTL they had 40 with torpedoes but 49 more with bombs and then 54 more in second wave so at least 143 aircraft how many hits would they get?
That would give 23 hits assuming the same rate as against Force Z, which had basically zero AA fire after the first torpedo hit on POW. Presumably the American fleet would have much stronger AA fire, and would probably have air support if close to Oahu.
Nimitz and others also thought that the Japanese made an error of historical proportions by not making a third strike against the fleet base. However there is pretty powerful evidence that it would not have done the damage American Admirals think, and that the damage would have been rapidly remedied. For one thing there were several repair ships and tenders (which can act as repair ships) on hand, plus the base staff. A few 500 pound bombs wouldn't have been worth the cost. The Japanese also would be lucky to hit a quarter of the storage tanks and destroy them, and a few tanker trips takes care of that. As Zimm pointed out, at least if the tankers had been redirected to the West Coast they probably wouldn't have been sunk by German U Boats on the East Coast.
Also: contrary to what people 'believe' the Wildcat vs. Zero matchup, was hilariously in the favor of the WILDCAT. While yes, the Zero was an agile SOB, and long ranged, performance in other areas was insignificant difference between the two frames with pilot quality being the issue. The Zero's 20mm cannon is more than equaled by the fact they only had two, and limited ammo, and it's all the Zero carried to hurt a Wildcat, while the Wildcat had 4 to 6 .50 cal which pretty much meant any Japanese airframe was dinner.
Study actual 'equal odd' battles. Even when the Zero had a 2 to 1 ratio over the Wildcat in battle, it wasn't a good day for the Japanese.
Even one all up Wildcat squadron gives the Kido Butai a bad day.
Study actual 'equal odd' battles. Even when the Zero had a 2 to 1 ratio over the Wildcat in battle, it wasn't a good day for the Japanese.
Even one all up Wildcat squadron gives the Kido Butai a bad day.
Good points.
Wasnt Japanese aircraft during WW2 to be notorious for catching fire after being hit with .50 cal rounds? Because the Val, Kate and Zeke were all subjected to lighting up like a fire cracker aftet getting hit.
Yup , no self sealing tanks , large amounts of fuel and little armor, add in , for a lot of planes, no radio or parachute and things get grim very quick. Whilst the initial pilots were very good and probably the best carrier jocks on the planet , the replacements were not and the replacement rate of planes meant once the losses started , the odds shift massively ( and that's not even factoring in the US ability to swamp with numbers after 43 )
*Weren't Japanese aircraft, during WW2, notorious for catching fire after being hit with .50 cal rounds? Because the Val, Kate and Zeke were all likely to light up like a fire cracker after getting hit.
Don't worry, we've all written posts like yours after a glass or fifteen.
Story 0823
November 23, 1941 near Ras Lanuf
Exeter and two light cruisers pressed closed to the shore. Their guns were tracking targets that photo-recon planes had found. Three thousand yards east of them and two thousand yards closer to the shore were the assault transports. Men had already started to scramble down the cargo nets into the assault boats.
A single coastal defense battery fired first. The Italian crews had not been expecting an amphibious raid. The first two shells were several hundred yards long and over Exeter. She, along with Gloucester, returned fire. Six eight inch shells erupted from the gun barrels every fifteen seconds while twelve lighter six inch shells were being fired every six seconds. The weight of fire was soon smothering the coastal defense guns. Overhead, four squadrons of biplane bombers flew over the cruisers and dropped their loads amongst the tents and barracks of the garrison.
As dawn became morning, the first wave of the 51 Commando came ashore. Luftwaffe ground personnel had managed to turn their four heavy flak guns into an impromptu strong point supported by a dozen heavy machine guns and a trio of light anti-aircraft cannons. The fliers and ground crews at the temporary landing field were tough but brittle. They had pinned down two companies of Marines but as 53 Commando landed further east along with a squadron of tanks, they were overwhelmed by the flanking attack. The tanks made a made dash to the coastal road six hundred yards inland before they stopped and the crews began to string netting and arrange for cover for their now hull down tanks.
By noon time, two air raids by the Luftwaffe had been flown. The twin engine bombers had contested drops on the Commandos as Fulmars ripped into their formation. Martlets were outclassed by BF-109Es but they were able to keep the escorts away from the interceptors. As the second raid departed, the fleet turned to the north for sea room even as the five still floating transports continued to unload equipment over the beach east of the town.
Story 0824
November 23, 1941 Libya
Six Lysanders and four recently arrived Dakotas flew low over the Libyan desert. Off to the east a trio of red lights flashed. Five seconds late, the flash sequence repeated itself. The drop zone had been secured. The Dakotas climbed for some altitude and slowed down as the drop masters pushed cargo crates out the rear door. Most of the parachutes worked and most of the crates were mostly intact as they bounced off the sand dunes. The Lysanders prepared to land on a hard sand surface. Five made clean landings. Their cargoes were quickly unloaded and the light aircraft were back in the air and flying through the dark, cold night. Burning tanks, and blazing fuel dumps acted as guides that signaled where the transient, permeable front line was.
Story 0825 Valiant's loss
November 24, 1941 1623 east of Benghazi
Corallo fired four torpedoes at the string of Royal Navy battleships at point blank range. The first torpedo missed while the next two torpedoes exploded against the side of HMS Valiant. The final torpedo exploded in the stern wake of the leviathan. The veteran of Jutland quickly began to list as three thousand tons of water poured into the holes on her port side. As she was listing, the race to save her was recognized to be futile and now the ship was being abandoned.
She would be joined by her assassin on the seabed floor an hour later as three destroyers prosecuted the contact and another three destroyers took off most of Valiant’s crew.
Quick thinking and some luck had led to the forward magazines being flooded which prevented an explosion according to the Board of Inquiry. Her crew would be landed at Alexandria and serve as a replacement pool for the Mediterranean Fleet.
Story 0826
November 24, 1941 27 miles north of Moscow
Two Panzer Armies, all 276 tanks, lurched forward once more. Some of their comrades were lost to Russian anti-tank guns, more were loss to mines, most were lost to cold and distance. Mechanics working in barns and tents heated by green wood burning swore that they could restore fifteen tanks a day to combat conditions. They had performed miracles during the offensive’s interludes to rebuild the spearheads but spare parts seldom were emerging from the rail heads in the quantity or specificity that was needed. A single Panzer III that left the workshops could contain parts from seven other tanks as it went back to the front.
As the armored troops pressed forward through the cold, resistance strengthened. Red Army infantry divisions, now mostly composed of veterans, knew when to hold firm, and they knew when to hedgehog. Artillery would lash down on exposed columns and flanks would be threatened by well sited anti-tank guns. Soviet armor still was not being well handled although there were more and more tanks that were not be driven by drunk farm boys.
The attack would continue as smoke from the factories and power plants of the objective were now in sight.
- Status