If they will not meet us on the open sea (a Trent TL)

[BELFAST]

I was wondering how large is the CSA Navy as of last update?

 

[Saphroneth]

I was wondering how large is the CSA Navy as of last update?

Not big - few extra ship orders compared to OTL, fewer blockade runners and they've not had time to finish many ships either - but the Virginia is having an effect out of all proportion to her actual size, since as the only ironclad on the Potomac until Eads finishes his gunboats (which will be months yet given the armour he's going for) she essentially gives the CSA total control of the river within the range of her guns - ably supported by a couple of small gunboats knocked together in Norfolk in a tearing hurry.
At the moment that means the western portion of the DC fort ring is not connected to the city itself (all the bridges are down) and the CSA is working on bridging the Potomac as close to Washington as is practical.

 

[Saphroneth]

5 May
The War Department issues an order for 20,000 troops (as in actual troops in numbers - this is specificed as 20,000 present) to be withdrawn from the Department of the Northeast in order to reinforce the Army of the Potomac and hence break the siege of Washington.
This seriously worries the American commanders on the ground - this will require stripping the forces facing Canada (by around 10,000; as this is the locus of the largest Canadian armies and the border is long it is considered highly risky to remove more) and 10,000 from the coastal fortifications. Ultimately the selection is made to strip troops from New York and New Jersey to make up the numbers.

This means that the total force facing the 160,000 strong British + Canadian armies is around 80,000 strong, and the forces preventing amphibious attack are about 60,000 strong - most of these in the forts or directly protecting cities and towns on the coast.
As around 6,000 infantry march out of NYC to the railway station, Mayor Wood (an antiwar Democrat) delivers a fiery speech about how the Republicans are unwilling to admit defeat. He highlights the severe economic problems hitting New York over the last couple of months as trade is cut off by the blockade, and his reference to "fine Irishmen and Germans" being inducted into regiments armed with pikes and shotguns, while an exaggeration of the true situation, sparks fury in the audience - rumors of the awful weapon situation of the Union's infantry are widely circulated by now, and his words have the ring of truth.
Wood also hints at the possibility of New York making a separate peace with the British, something which is noted with alarm by the Federal government, especially as he mentioned (then backtracked on) the concept of a 'Republic of tri-Insula'.
It is decided it would be completely unsafe to remove any more troops from NYC - indeed, emergency plans are drawn up for the Federal troops remaining to take control of the city if the Mayor makes good on his suggestion.

As a curiosity, on this date 5,000 uniforms arrive in Savannah by ship. Ordered from a Limerick firm, they are sufficiently good quality that the Confederate army will eventually clothe itself entirely of the products from this one company.

6 May
The Sarissa, a powered ram, sallies out of Buzzards' Bay in Massachusets. Built with an oak sheath and cased with four 1" layers of iron, she carries one gun (a 6.4" rifle) and is built mainly as a ram ship - indeed, she has an impressive speed at full power of eleven and a half knots.
She makes for the frigate sustaining the blockade of Buzzards' Bay at this time, the Melpomene(51), and her attendant gunboats. The Melpomene at first opens fire, scoring some hits with her shell guns and one with her 68-lber pivot (racking off some plates from the Sarissa), not realizing the Sarissa's intent.
The Sarissa is closing so fast that Melpomene only has the time for two broadsides (one at long range and one close) and the captain of the Melpomene (belatedly realizing Sarissa is intending to ram) makes a sharp turn to alter the angle of contact - something the Sarissa's steersman cannot compensate for in time as he has very poor visibility, due to the lack of a conning tower.
Sarissa's ram scrapes along the underside of Melopmene near the stern, making a few small holes, and her 6.4" rifle fired at point blank range causes several casualties for what has already been something of an unlucky ship in the Trent War. Once past, however, the Sarissa has trouble turning about quickly, and the British gunboats begin firing on her in earnest. While she manages another pass on the Melpomene, she does not inflict significant additional damage, and a full broadside from Melpomene renders her hors d'combat - the hail of shell and shot shattering several plates, and riddling her smokestack. The low-draft ram is in a sinking condition as she attempts to turn for home, and the order is given to abandon ship near Penikese Island.
Melpomene is fothered, and the damage is judged severe enough (there was working of the structure) that she should head to Halifax for repairs. HMS Mersey will replace her.

On the same date, General Pennefather (commanding British forces on the St. Clair and Detroit Rivers) orders a reconaissance in force across the St. Clair river. In a three-hour battle, his well-trained British battalions drive American pickets from the riverbank and defeat the local reaction force (about 5,000 Americans ultimately being involved in the battle) with accurate rifle fire across the 300-yard width of the St. Clair at Sarnia, before a crossing is made by 15,000 British and Canadian infantry and 4,000 cavalry, along with two batteries. Their orders are to identify the main American army in the area in preparation for a future attack with ironclad support.
What Pennefather does not know is that the St. Clair river line was the main American resistance line - his reconaissance in force has defeated 20% of the Union forces in Michigan without really breaking a sweat, and there is no way for Austin Blair to set up any additional defensive lines without either pulling forces out of Detroit or effectively abandoning most of the peninsula. He and his advisors deliberate into the evening about whether to fort up in Detroit, try to stop this offensive, or retreat to the west and to Grand Rapids.

 

[Richter von Manthofen]

The breaking away of additional states (even if only one or two) will secure the republicans will be defeated almeot 100% in the next elections - especially if they use force to "subdue" those states...

 

[Saphroneth]

The breaking away of additional states (even if only one or two) will secure the republicans will be defeated almeot 100% in the next elections - especially if they use force to "subdue" those states...

Part of my intent here in highlighting these (real!) suggestions - in the case of Tri-Insula, one which last surfaced in 1861 - is to illustrate how the US even OTL was under serious strain in 1862. That's what will drive them to make peace, in my opinion - the fear of a total splintering of the Republic.
As for using force to subdue states, that's almost exactly what happened OTL in Maryland. Very little actual violence occurred, of course (though the Baltimore Riots claimed over a dozen dead AFAICT) but Maryland was essentially occupied.

 

[Saphroneth]

Oh, speaking of the CSN, I've found something that rather surprised me - I'd assumed based on comments I've seen that the CSA couldn't put together a viable naval propulsion plant.

Well, they did - or rather, Tregedar did. It produced the engines for the Roanoke and the Colorado, two of the Merrimack class ships, and as such it could handily produce the engines, armour and guns for an armoured frigate. She wouldn't be the equal of the Warrior - smaller and less well armoured - but still quite capable.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

while their weapons are mostly percussion muskets (with almost as many flintlocks as rifles)

Percussion, as percussion cap? Then how are they flintlocks? And rifle/smoothbore is a completely different dichotomy from percussion/flintlock. So this line is ... strange.

(As a point of curiosity, one Canadian militiaman is killed by a ball fired from a flintlock Brown Bess musket - one captured from his own Grandfather at Fort Erie nearly fifty years ago.)

You as the omniscient narrator knows this. But it sounds to me like this was supposed to be 'weird facts from the ACW', and there is no way anyone could know this.

In the fog of war, people rarely knew if they hit, or especially killed, any particular target, and with all the firing happening, is the shooter going to remember who he shot, and where exactly on the field he was? Worse, how would the shooter know whose the gun originally was.

This SOUNDS like a legend after the war (like, oh, Molly Pitcher), with the only hard facts being the guy and the gun identified.

the first wave crosses 200 yards. Then, as they reach 600 yards, the British 2nd class shots open fire as well.

Going backwards, are they?
Was the first figure supposed to be '1200', not '200'?

 

[Saphroneth]

Percussion, as percussion cap? Then how are they flintlocks? And rifle/smoothbore is a completely different dichotomy from percussion/flintlock. So this line is ... strange.

Here's an example of how that would work:

9% flintlock musket
80% percussion musket
11% percussion rifle

So there's "almost as many flintlocks as rifles" and "mostly percussion muskets".

You as the omniscient narrator knows this. But it sounds to me like this was supposed to be 'weird facts from the ACW', and there is no way anyone could know this.

In the fog of war, people rarely knew if they hit, or especially killed, any particular target, and with all the firing happening, is the shooter going to remember who he shot, and where exactly on the field he was? Worse, how would the shooter know whose the gun originally was.

This SOUNDS like a legend after the war (like, oh, Molly Pitcher), with the only hard facts being the guy and the gun identified.

True, it's not quite apt for a history, but it's something I'm saying as the narrator. If I wanted it to be a history point, then I'd have it be:
1) The gun is the only Brown Bess on the field.
2) The wound is positively identified as being from a Brown Bess ball.
3) The Brown Bess is captured and the serial number can be checked.

Going backwards, are they?
Was the first figure supposed to be '1200', not '200'?

They came under fire at 800 yards range, then crossed 200 yards of ground to reach 600 yards range.

 

[Saphroneth]

Correction to earlier statement - it seems the 7.7 million lbs of gunpowder issued was to the Ordnance department and does not include the Navy. As such the estimates of how much time the Union has left with its powder should be revised down somewhat to account for all the powder the Navy used.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Here's an example of how that would work:

9% flintlock musket
80% percussion musket
11% percussion rifle

So there's "almost as many flintlocks as rifles" and "mostly percussion muskets".

Oh me, oh my. I'm so used to thinking of the ACW as Minié ball rifles that it never occurred to me that there'd be that many smoothbores still around.

Where are they getting all the percussion caps from? Are THEY locally sourced? (Making a percussion cap that only goes off when you want it too involves sophisticated chemical techniques for the day.)

 

[Saphroneth]

Oh me, oh my. I'm so used to thinking of the ACW as Minié ball rifles that it never occurred to me that there'd be that many smoothbores still around.

Where are they getting all the percussion caps from? Are THEY locally sourced? (Making a percussion cap that only goes off when you want it too involves sophisticated chemical techniques for the day.)

Not sure the source for Union percussion caps - if you find a good one let me know!

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Not sure the source for Union percussion caps - if you find a good one let me know!

I would guess they were, or could be, produced locally.

Most links I found were to CSA operations

Beginning operations in March 1862, the Atlanta Arsenal employed nearly 5,500 workers and acted as the primary ordnance supplier for the Army of Tennessee until its operations were removed farther south in July 1864. During its years of operation, the arsenal produced more than 46 million percussion caps, 9 million rounds of ammunition, and large quantities of other materiel.Beginning operations in March 1862, the Atlanta Arsenal employed nearly 5,500 workers and acted as the primary ordnance supplier for the Army of Tennessee until its operations were removed farther south in July 1864. During its years of operation, the arsenal produced more than 46 million percussion caps, 9 million rounds of ammunition, and large quantities of other materiel.

Now... This didn't get started until '62, and it was forced on them by the blockade. It MIGHT be that the Union bought British iOTL, like they did for saltpetre. And, of course, given a long war they can set up lots of production of various things.

If I find anything about Union production, per se, I'll let you know.

 

[BELFAST]

Nice update.
I like the uniforms from Limerick.
The Irish as in all wars fight on all sides.
Will there be an Irish regiment in the union army fighting an Irish regiment in the British army?
Like happen OTL at Fredericksburg between Union and CSA Irish

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Ha.
From
Making Arms in the Machine Age: Philadelphia's Frankford Arsenal, 1816-1870
we have

By the fall of 1853 the workers at the Frankford Arsenal had exceeded those estimates. In November 1853 Hagner reported producing "1,000,000 percussion caps, 25,000 friction tubes, and 100,000 Maynard primers."

Of course, that doesn't tell us whether they blew up when you looked at them funny....

 

[Saphroneth]

Ha.
From
Making Arms in the Machine Age: Philadelphia's Frankford Arsenal, 1816-1870
we have


Of course, that doesn't tell us whether they blew up when you looked at them funny....

Ah, excellent. So that's a source of 12 million percussion caps per year at that date.
Given that OTL in the war to 30 June 1862 the Union purchased (from sources foreign and domestic) 383 million percussion caps, while over the same period Federal arsenals manufactured 39 million, the main question is whether domestic sources were outproducing the Federal arsenals by a factor of five to ten - or less.


We do know that the British were sending a substantial number of caps:

've posted extensively on how America relied on British supplies to make war, but here are the headline figures for what Britain sent to the US:
1st of May, 1861, to the 31st of December, 1862: Muskets, 41,500; rifles, 341,000; gun-flints, 26,500; percussion-caps, 49,982,000; swords, 2,250.
1st of January to the 17th of March, 1863: 23,870 gun-barrels, 30,802 rifles, 3,105,800 percussion caps.

...there were an awful lot of British ships taking munitions to North America in 1862 anyway. Liverpool alone sent 196,053 rifles and muskets and 11,947,000 percussion caps to northern ports that year. The only difference here is that those ships would go to Canada instead of the Union.

So my overall reading of this is that the British blocking shipment of percussion caps would reduce Union supplies by at least 15% compared to OTL, but it would not be the limiting factor on what the Union could do. (No, that's gunpowder - they'll run out of spare powder to issue some time in July to August, and at that point they're down to taking back powder that's already been issued.)

 

[Saphroneth]

Here's a ship of later TTL:

https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...ships-of-nations.326948/page-38#post-12729097

 

[Saphroneth]

On the huge 32" Mallock Mortar:

It was originally built for use on land against Sevastopol, but use at sea was intended.

- DK Brown, Before The Ironclad.

That would be a mighty door knocker for a Union Fort!

 

[cerebropetrologist]

On the huge 32" Mallock Mortar:

It's actually Mallet's mortar, and it's 36in. Brown's much better at ships than land forces...

 

[Saphroneth]

It's actually Mallet's mortar, and it's 36in. Brown's much better at ships than land forces...

Fair enough! Knew I should have checked other sources.

 

[Mrstrategy]

so its over?