Sports What Ifs.

[High Plains Drifter]

The Brewers made some free-agent moves for their pitching staff in 1979: Signing Jim Slaton and Reggie Cleveland.

Here is the Opening Day lineup in 1979:
2B Molitor
SS Yount
1B Cooper
C Murphy
DH Oglivie
CF Thomas
3B Money
RF Moore
LF Henderson

SP Mike Caldwell

Catcher is interesting. Current Brewers catchers (prior to 1979) are Charlie Moore and Buck Martinez. Moore hit around .270, but with little power. Martinez is more of a liability at bat. Murphy has power, and has split time at catcher and first base. Cooper emerges as an everyday player, though, so Murphy starts out at catcher, but it is soon obvious that while he is a good power hitter, he is a liabilty defensively, so the Brewers stick him in left field, and go with an Oglive/Lezcano platoon in right, with Henderson holding down center field.

Their pitching looks strong on paper going into 1979: The Brewers' 1979 rotation as planned is headlined by Mike Caldwell (22-9, 2.36 ERA in 1978) and Lary Sorenson (18-12, 3.21 ERA) with Jim Slaton returning as a free agent and Bill Travers taking the next two slots, with Moose Haas as the 5th starter, unless the Crew decides to stick with Jerry Augustine (13-12, 4.54 in 1978). So their rotation is going to be in good shape entering that season.

The bullpen may be a bigger question, since Bill Castro (5-4, 1.81 ERA, 8 saves) leads the bullpen. Castro may be underrated as a closer - note the 1.81 ERA. Bob McClure's also not shabby, either (4-7, 3.10 ERA, 15 saves combined in 1977-1978). Augustine and Andy Repogle could fill bullpen slots. The Brewers also have free-agent acquisition Cleveland (5-8, 3.08 ERA, 12 saves in 1978). So their `pen doesn't have big names, but Cleveland, Castro, and McClure look to be serviceable, with Augustine and Repogle as inning-eaters.

The 1979 bullpen is still catch-as-catch-can, but by the end of 1979, the Brewers have a few spare parts they could conceivably dangle for pitching. Murphy will have probably shown by the end of 1979 that he is an answer in the outfield. Oglivie will also have earned a spot as well - probably full-time (as he did in @ 1979). In 1979, Charlie Moore emerges as a solid contact hitter (.300 batting average). So catcher is less of a concern than it was at the start of the season.

The Brewers will be looking to unload Sixto Lezcano and Dick Davis at the very least - maybe Jim Gantner as well. They also start to view OF/1B David Green, their top prospect, as likely trade bait instead, and begin to start looking for a third baseman of the future to replace Money, who is 32.

Here is the OTL Brewer's 1978 lineup which finished 3rd in the AL East with a 93-69 record:

C - Martinez (age 29), 256 AB, .219 ave, .255 obp, .277 slg
C - Moore (age 25), 268 AB, .269 ave, .300 obp, .358 slg
1B - Cooper (age 28), 407 AB, .312 ave, .359 obp, .474 slg
2B - Molitor (age 21), 521 AB, .274 ave, .301 obp, .372 slg
3B - Bando (traded per POD prior to 79 season)
SS - Yount (age 22), 502 AB, .293 ave, .323 obp, .428 slg
LF - Hisle (traded per POD prior to 79 season)
CF - Gorman (age 27), 452 AB, .246 ave, .351 obp, .515 slg
RF - Lezcano (age 24), 442 AB, .292 ave, .377 obp, .459 slg
DH - Davis (age 24), 218 AB, .248, .273 obp, .372 slg
LF/RF/1B/DH - Oglivie (age 29), 469 AB, .303 ave, .370 obp, .497 slg
1B/2B/3B/DH - Money (age 31), 518 AB, .293 ave, .361 obp, .440 slg
UI - Gantner (age 25), 97 AB, .216 ave, .269 obp, .258 slg

Here are Murphy and Henderson's 1978 stats:

Henderson (age 19) OF in AA, 455 AB, .310 ave, .417 obp, .358 slg, 81 SB

Murphy (age 22) 1B/C in ATL, 530 AB, .226 ave, .284 obp, .394 slg


A 20 year old Henderson is NOT starting 1979 in the majors. IOTL he didn't make his debut till June 24, and the A's had a lot weaker outfield than Lezcano, Thomas, and Oglivie.

Murphy is NOT the starting catcher or rightfielder in 1979. His catching is weak and he hits worse (though with more power and more potential) than Moore. He's never played the OF and the Brewer's have Lezcano in RF who hits for average with power and threw out 18 base runners in 78.

The regular starting 9 in the first half of the 1979 season are:
C – Moore
1B – Cooper
2B – Molitor
3B – Money
SS – Yount
LF – Oglivie
CF – Thomas
RF – Lezcano
DH – Davis/Murphy

Murphy will catch at least twice a week to spell Moore. He will spot start for Cooper against tough lefties or when Cooper is given a day off/plays DH. If Murphy hits well enough, he will push out Davis at DH and he might gain an extra start a week at catcher. IOTL in 1979 Murphy only hit .257 ave, .305 obp, .421 slg away from the friendly confines of Atlanta. And Milwaukee is a big time pitcher’s park, so it is VERY difficult to see him hitting so amazing he can force one of the other starters out of a regular job. (Historically IOTL Murphy hit .281 ave, .368 obp, .499 slg at home; but only .250 ave, .324 obp, .440 slg away. Any career playing for the Brewers is going to result in much lower overall career numbers for Murphy.)

The second half of the 1979 season will see the introduction of Rickey Henderson as the everyday left fielder. IOTL in 71 at AAA in 1979 he hit .309 ave, 430 obp, 448 slg. There is no keeping him down he is that good.

The regular starting 9 in the second half of the 1979 season are:
C – Moore
1B – Cooper
2B – Molitor
3B – Money
SS – Yount
LF – Henderson
CF – Thomas
RF – Lezcano
DH – Oglivie

Murphy will get a good amount of playing time split between catcher, first base, and DH. But he won’t be a “regular”. IOTL Moore, Cooper, Molitor, Oglivie, Thomas, and Lezcano all had really, really good years with the bat. I just can’t see where Murphy becomes a regular, everybody he can replace is better than he is in 1979. If he is lucky, the manager Bamberger (who did seem very open to adjust lineups and positions), will give Murphy a shot as a spot starter in the outfield. That might expand his playing time in later years.

 

[The Dude Bro]

Here's a very fascinating what if: let's say that, in 1915, instead of ruling that baseball (and, by extension, sports teams) do not count as interstate commerce and thus do not fall under the provision of the Sherman Antitrust Act, the Supreme Court rules the exact opposite, perhaps going as far as ordering the breakup of Major League Baseball for violating the Sherman Antitrust Act?

 

[Unknown]

WI the 49ers draft Aaron Rodgers instead of Alex Smith?

 

[Rojodi]

Here's a very fascinating what if: let's say that, in 1915, instead of ruling that baseball (and, by extension, sports teams) do not count as interstate commerce and thus do not fall under the provision of the Sherman Antitrust Act, the Supreme Court rules the exact opposite, perhaps going as far as ordering the breakup of Major League Baseball for violating the Sherman Antitrust Act?

That would be an excellent topic to discuss. What effect would it have on minor league baseball? Would the Federal League have survived for a third year, with the Kansas City Packers moving to New York? Would a southern major league be formed in the '20s?

So many ways to take this.

 

[FDW]

WI the 49ers draft Aaron Rodgers instead of Alex Smith?

Aaron Rodgers does just as badly, if not more so, given that Rodgers was even less pro-ready than Alex was, and the Niners quite literally had no offense in 2005. Also, Nolan really disliked Aaron Rodgers and thought that the two couldn't co-exist together if that ends being the case then we'll be seeing Nolan bomb out much sooner than OTL.

As for Alex, he'll either be drafted by the Packers or Redskins (who had QB needs). If he goes to the Packers, then he'll probably replace Favre a year earlier than Rodgers did (and given the good GM office and filled out supporting squad) while also doing everything Rodgers did and then some. Chances are we'd be talking about Alex as being in the same Elite category as Manning and Brady here.

Now if Alex goes to the Redskins, he'll probably spend some time sitting behind Mark Brunell, eventually coming in 2006. Alex would probably marginally improve the Redskins during this period, but the sheer dysfunction of the franchise would weigh him down, and he probably would've been traded to another team.

Now, lastly we have to consider Jason Campbell on the Packers. Jason Campbell would end up doing just as well as Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith would've, for the same reasons.

 

[The Dude Bro]

That would be an excellent topic to discuss. What effect would it have on minor league baseball? Would the Federal League have survived for a third year, with the Kansas City Packers moving to New York? Would a southern major league be formed in the '20s?

So many ways to take this.

I could perhaps see, across all American major sports, a tendancy towards more leagues, with a smaller number of teams, or perhaps instead less pay for players. So, to use the example of baseball, we could have the National League, American League, Federal League, Continental League, and as many as five more leagues, all between, say, 6-16 teams. Multiple teams in each city as well, probably, since there would be no single league to decide which teams go where, meaning that media space is cramped.

I could also see, instead of one owner for each team, the league owning all the teams in the league as one single property, in order to avoid constant relocations and foldings to deal with fighting for fans in cities.

Probably no further World Series or any cross-league/college conference championships/bowls, unless they adopt a college football system, and who wants to ponder that horrible outcome?

 

[Rojodi]

I could perhaps see, across all American major sports, a tendancy towards more leagues, with a smaller number of teams, or perhaps instead less pay for players. So, to use the example of baseball, we could have the National League, American League, Federal League, Continental League, and as many as five more leagues, all between, say, 6-16 teams. Multiple teams in each city as well, probably, since there would be no single league to decide which teams go where, meaning that media space is cramped.

I could also see, instead of one owner for each team, the league owning all the teams in the league as one single property, in order to avoid constant relocations and foldings to deal with fighting for fans in cities.

Probably no further World Series or any cross-league/college conference championships/bowls, unless they adopt a college football system, and who wants to ponder that horrible outcome?

This would happen, up until the Depression, when the major leagues begin to feel the crunch. One, perhaps two fold, while the others merge to form two.

 

[The Dude Bro]

This would happen, up until the Depression, when the major leagues begin to feel the crunch. One, perhaps two fold, while the others merge to form two.

What happens after the war, though? What happens when an upstart league feels pressure and decides to sue for antitrust violations again?

Alternative possibility: perhaps the federal government provides a little financial support, seeing sports keeps people's spirits up during tough times?

 

[AltSptHst]

Aaron Rodgers does just as badly, if not more so, given that Rodgers was even less pro-ready than Alex was, and the Niners quite literally had no offense in 2005. Also, Nolan really disliked Aaron Rodgers and thought that the two couldn't co-exist together if that ends being the case then we'll be seeing Nolan bomb out much sooner than OTL.

As for Alex, he'll either be drafted by the Packers or Redskins (who had QB needs). If he goes to the Packers, then he'll probably replace Favre a year earlier than Rodgers did (and given the good GM office and filled out supporting squad) while also doing everything Rodgers did and then some. Chances are we'd be talking about Alex as being in the same Elite category as Manning and Brady here.

Now if Alex goes to the Redskins, he'll probably spend some time sitting behind Mark Brunell, eventually coming in 2006. Alex would probably marginally improve the Redskins during this period, but the sheer dysfunction of the franchise would weigh him down, and he probably would've been traded to another team.

Now, lastly we have to consider Jason Campbell on the Packers. Jason Campbell would end up doing just as well as Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith would've, for the same reasons.

If the Niners would have taken Rodgers, I wonder if Smith would have gone before Rodgers did in OTL because he was rated higher. If that happens, do the Pack take Campbell?

Because, if Jason falls out of the first round, he probably ends up with Cleveland early in the second round, and they don't draft Charlie Frye that year, or Brady Quinn in 07.

 

[The Dude Bro]

Nevermind.

 

[FDW]

If the Niners would have taken Rodgers, I wonder if Smith would have gone before Rodgers did in OTL because he was rated higher. If that happens, do the Pack take Campbell?

Because, if Jason falls out of the first round, he probably ends up with Cleveland early in the second round, and they don't draft Charlie Frye that year, or Brady Quinn in 07.

Probably, and he would've done just as good as Aaron Rodgers would've because of the excellent management that Green Bay had at the time. That's why they came back the way did in 2006-07 more than anything else.

 

[athleticsfan2kx]

How about some NASCAR Stuff

What if Cale Yarborough and Donnie Allison didn't Crash in the 1979 Daytona 500 if so who won, Cale or Donnie?

What if Dale Earnhardt won the 1993 Daytona 500?

And On the MLB Side

What if the San Francisco Giants won the 2002 World Series?

 

[Friedrich]

How about: what if Meisel and Pozzo had never been? How would soccer be different?

 

[AltSptHst]

The N"if"L

Have any of you seen these videos?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/n-if-l/0ap2000000114366/N-if-L-What-if-Eli-hadn-t-been-traded-to-New-York

This is one installment in a series that Dave Dameshek has been doing. It deals with Eli not being traded to the Giants.

Dameshek thinks that Rivers would have won the same SB's that Big Ben won in Pittsburgh, but I disagree. The Steelers wouldn't have done as well the last several years without Roethlisberger.

 

[athleticsfan2kx]

Have any of you seen these videos?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/n-if-l/0ap2000000114366/N-if-L-What-if-Eli-hadn-t-been-traded-to-New-York

This is one installment in a series that Dave Dameshek has been doing. It deals with Eli not being traded to the Giants.

Dameshek thinks that Rivers would have won the same SB's that Big Ben won in Pittsburgh, but I disagree. The Steelers wouldn't have done as well the last several years without Roethlisberger.

And What about what if the World Football League Gets Merged by the National Football League in 1975 could we see a super bowl between the Birmingham Vulcans vs. Dallas Cowboys?

 

[Brennus]

Here's something I've been thinking about,

-Before WWII, hockey was relatively popular in Britain. How would it be possible for the game to remain popular (and be a strong fourth sport) on a nationwide level? The sport seems to do well in smaller towns and cities, but when it comes to the bigger ones (outside of Nottingham, Sheffield, Coventry, and counting Northern Ireland, Belfast), it doesn't seem to do as well.

And here's a scenario,

-In 1998, Paul Kariya was hit by Gary Suter in a game between Anaheim and Chicago. The hit was devastating to Kariya, who suffered from concussions for pretty much the duration of his career. After the hit he seemed to become much more injury-prone. It completely changed his play, and his point totals showed it. Around this time, a lot of publications (I know an ESPN Magazine article and one in The Hockey News) had more or less deemed Kariya the one to "carry the torch" for the league after Gretzky was set to retire, but that never came to be (lesson learned, don't always believe articles!)

Now, let's say Gary Suter never hits Kariya, or better yet, Kariya doesn't suffer a severe concussion after the hit. Would he possibly continue on with the pace he was on? (multiple 100 point seasons along with linemate Teemu Selanne) Could he have been the biggest star, skill-wise? As a Ducks fan, I know that the team was horribly, horribly run by general manager Pierre Gauthier (who would go on to Montreal later on and run that team just as bad), so there is that to take into consideration.

-Also, what if there was no split between the IRL and Champ Car? I assume one way would ultimately mean that Tony George (the one who facilitated the split) would not become president of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Co, or at least isn't removed from the CART board of directors. The split was disastrous for open wheel racing in the US, and it's yet to recover from it. Could CART be up there with Nascar in terms of popularity if it remains one entity?

And here's an Olympics what if,

-What if the IOC had not awarded Moscow the 1980 games? The US and a lot of other countries boycotted the games due to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, which lead to a counter boycott in 1984 of the Soviet Union and it's allies when the games were held in the US. Where could the 1980 Games be located if not in Russia, and what impact would it have regarding the boycotts? (And could this potentially change the state of politics in general? I know President Carter's boycott lead to a considerable amount of backlash at home and abroad.)

 

[The Dude Bro]

Here's something I've been thinking about,

-Before WWII, hockey was relatively popular in Britain. How would it be possible for the game to remain popular (and be a strong fourth sport) on a nationwide level? The sport seems to do well in smaller towns and cities, but when it comes to the bigger ones (outside of Nottingham, Sheffield, Coventry, and counting Northern Ireland, Belfast), it doesn't seem to do as well.

Perhaps have Coventry avoid getting firebombed during the Blitz. After the war, it becomes a sort of Mecca for hockey, and eventually forms a major hockey league with the other three towns mentioned above and the largest of the smaller cities. Eventually, hockey hits it big as a winter alternative to hockey, especially in northern England and Scotland.

 

[The Dude Bro]

As a bit of a fun game, let's face-off the runners up in both the AFC and NFC championships (and before the merger, the AFL and NFL championships) in the Super Bowl:

Super Bowl I (1966): Buffalo Bills (I) vs. Dallas Cowboys (I)

Super Bowl II (1967): Houston Oilers (I) vs. Dallas Cowboys (II)

Super Bowl III (1968): Oakland Raiders (I) vs. Cleveland Browns (I)

Super Bowl IV (1969): Oakland Raiders (II) vs. Cleveland Browns (II)

Super Bowl V (1970): Oakland Raiders (III) vs. San Francisco 49ers (I)

Super Bowl VI (1971): Baltimore Colts (I) vs. San Francisco 49ers (II)

Super Bowl VII (1972): Pittsburgh Steelers (I) vs. Dallas Cowboys (III)

Super Bowl VIII (1973): Oakland Raiders (IV) vs. Dallas Cowboys (IV)

Super Bowl IX (1974): Oakland Raiders (V) vs. Los Angeles Rams (I)

Super Bowl X (1975): Oakland Raiders (VI) vs. Los Angeles Rams (II)

Super Bowl XI (1976): Pittsburgh Steelers (II) vs. Los Angeles Rams (III)

Super Bowl XII (1977): Oakland Raiders (VII) vs. Minnesota Vikings (I)

Super Bowl XIII (1978): Houston Oilers (II) vs. Los Angeles Rams (IV)

Super Bowl XIV (1979): Houston Oilers (III) vs. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (I)

Super Bowl XV (1980): San Diego Chargers (I) vs. Dallas Cowboys (V)

Super Bowl XVI (1981): San Diego Chargers (II) vs. Dallas Cowboys (VI)

Super Bowl XVII (1982): New York Jets (I) vs. Dallas Cowboy (VII)

Super Bowl XVIII (1983): Seattle Seahawks (I) vs. San Francisco 49ers (III)

Super Bowl XIX (1984): Pittsburgh Steelers (III) vs. Chicago Bears (I)

Super Bowl XX (1985): Miami Dolphins (I) vs. Los Angeles Rams (V)

Super Bowl XXI (1986): Cleveland Browns (III) vs. Washington Redskins (I)

Super Bowl XXII (1987): Cleveland Browns (IV) vs. Minnesota Vikings (II)

Super Bowl XXIII (1988): Buffalo Bills (II) vs. Chicago Bears (II)

Super Bowl XXIV (1989): Cleveland Browns (V) vs. Los Angeles Rams (VI)

Super Bowl XXV (1990): Los Angeles Raiders (VIII) vs. San Francisco 49ers (IV)

Super Bowl XXVI (1991): Denver Broncos (I) vs. Detroit Lions (I)

Super Bowl XXVII (1992): Miami Dolphins (II) vs. San Francisco 49ers (V)

Super Bowl XXVIII (1993): Kansas City Chiefs (I) vs. San Francisco 49ers (VI)

Super Bowl XXIX (1994): Pittsburgh Steelers (IV) vs. Dallas Cowboys (VIII)

Super Bowl XXX (1995): Indianapolis Colts (II) vs. Green Bay Packers (I)

Super Bowl XXXI (1996): Jacksonville Jaguars (I) vs. Carolina Panthers (I)

Super Bowl XXXII (1997): Pittsburgh Steelers (V) vs. San Francisco 49ers (VII)

Super Bowl XXXIII (1998): New York Jets (II) vs. Minnesota Vikings (III)

Super Bowl XXXIV (1999): Jacksonville Jaguars (II) vs. Tampa Bay Buccaneers (II)

Super Bowl XXXV (2000): Oakland Raiders (IX) vs. Minnesota Vikings (IV)

Super Bowl XXXVI (2001): Pittsburgh Steelers (VI) vs. Philadelphia Eagles (I)

Super Bowl XXXVII (2002): Tennessee Titans (IV) vs. Philadelphia Eagles (II)

Super Bowl XXXVIII (2003): Indianapolis Colts (III) vs. Philadelphia Eagles (III)

Super Bowl XXXIX (2004): Pittsburgh Steelers (VII) vs. Atlanta Falcons (I)

Super Bowl XXXX (2005): Denver Broncos (II) vs. Carolina Panthers (II)

Super Bowl XXXXI (2006): New England Patriots (I) vs. New Orleans Saints (I)

Super Bowl XXXXII (2007): San Diego Chargers (III) vs. Green Bay Packers (II)

Super Bowl XXXXIII (2008): Baltimore Ravens (I) vs. Philadelphia Eagles (IV)

Super Bowl XXXXIV (2009): New York Jets (III) vs. Minnesota Vikings (V)

Super Bowl XXXXV (2010): New York Jets (IV) vs. Chicago Bears (III)

Super Bowl XXXXVI (2011): Baltimore Ravens (II) vs. San Francisco 49ers (VIII)

Super Bowl XXXXVII (2012): New England Patriots (II) vs. Atlanta Falcons (II)

 

[AltSptHst]

What if the San Francisco Giants won the 2002 World Series?

If Dusty stays after the win, he may not have went to Chicago, and the Bartman thing may have been butterflied away.

Also, Kerry Wood and Mark Prior may have had longer careers without playing for Dusty because of how hard Dusty works pitchers. That is one of the major criticisms against him.

 

[dsp19]

Big 4 American Sports

Baseball: Dave Roberts is caught stealing at 2nd base in Game 4 of the ALCS. The Yankees sweep the Red Sox and the Curse of the Bambino lives on, as Boston succumbs to Cleveland in 2007 with the memories of that defeat playing on them psychologically

Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio are traded for each other...both put up even better stats playing in ballparks that are better suited for their skills, but the Yankees still dominate the Sox

Branca strikes out Bobby Thomson and induces a rookie CF named Willie Mays to pop up to 2nd; Brooklyn wins the pennant and finally beats the Yanks in 7 in 1951

Willie McCovey's line drive is three feet to Bobby Richardson's right in the bottom of the 9th inning in Game 7 of the 1962 WS...the Giants beat the Yankees 2-1 to win the series

Don Denkinger gets the call right at 1st in the STL-KC World Series Game 6; Cardinals win the Series

NFL:

Norwood's kick is good and Buffalo wins SB XXV 22-20 (the most obvious NFL WI)

The Saints draft Lawrence Taylor with the #1 overall pick in 1981. His career is wasted on some bad Saints teams. The Giants pick George Rogers and his career is curtailed by injuries; the Giants futility (at the time, 18 years without a playoff win) continues for at least another 4-5 years, and they do not win a SB under Parcells

Mo Lewis does not KO Drew Bledsoe in a 2001 Jets-Patriots game...Tom Brady does not get off the bench in time to save New England's season, and the Patriots dynasty is delayed or possibly curtailed

49ers draft Aaron Rodgers instead of Alex Smith with the #1 pick in 2005

The Eli Manning trade falls through...Eli is a Charger and Roethlisberger is drafted by the Giants. Eli is beaten out by Drew Brees in SD and is traded to New Orleans, where he leads his dad's team to a SB in 2009. Roethlisberger wins at least one SB in Giants blue, while the Steelers are still searching for a QB