Affiliated States of Boreoamerica thread
- Thread starter False Dmitri
- Start date
Liking the California posts.
Thank you.
Before I hadn't realized that Drake's New Albion was located right where the English colony in the North Bay ended up in TTL. Now I am thinking that the state would just call itself New Albion rather than name itself after a random royal dukedom. "New Albion County" in my map would become Drake County.
Wow. I must say the California updates are quite interesting. Great Job!
The maps are especially nice!
Out of curiosity, how much of California's history/current situation has been already planned out? I have dozens of much more specific questions I want to ask, but I don't want to get ahead of myself.
The maps are especially nice!
Out of curiosity, how much of California's history/current situation has been already planned out? I have dozens of much more specific questions I want to ask, but I don't want to get ahead of myself.
Upvoteanthology
Donor
Out of curiosity, how much of California's history/current situation has been already planned out? I have dozens of much more specific questions I want to ask, but I don't want to get ahead of myself.
Ben and I worked most of it out in PM over the past few days, I could tell you everything you want to know; just shoot me a PM!
Ben and I worked most of it out in PM over the past few days, I could tell you everything you want to know; just shoot me a PM!
Oh awesome! Thanks!
Wow. I must say the California updates are quite interesting. Great Job!
The maps are especially nice!
Out of curiosity, how much of California's history/current situation has been already planned out? I have dozens of much more specific questions I want to ask, but I don't want to get ahead of myself.
Here is what we have so far. Keep in mind that none of this is set in stone, yet.
- Russian California: This is a Realm of the Imperial Commonwealth (a descendant of the colonial empire/personal union that ultimately derives from a joke about my username). It has been relatively stable since the last flare-up of separatism in the 60s and 70s. The state changed from a full to an associate member of the Union, and other coastal states seemed on the verge of following its lead before a big military crackdown killed the movement. Russian California then adopted an Industrialist economy, which probably was not what the 60s reformers had had in mind. It has a lively opposition, though, led by a Green Party that is part of the agrarian-environmentalist movement active in Oregon and the ASB. Despite its name its main languages are Spanish, English, and Korean.
- New Albion: See Clarence above. It's official, New Albion is the state. Clarence will be the capital, located at the site of OTL Oakland.
- San Francisco: The State of San Francisco began when militia from New Netherland seized the Presidio in 1860, sparking the Gold Wars. In the aftermath it was established as a condominium run by New Netherland and Massachusetts Bay. The two states proved not to be particularly good at ruling a colony, and SF became a chaotic Wild West. It achieved a measure of stability after disconnecting itself from the East Coast, but its 20th century politics have been turbulent as well. From the 30s to the 70s it was under military rule, and a quick burst of separatism in the 70s unleashed a libertine impulse that later unionist governments could not contain. Today the threat of Union military takeover coexists with world-famous nude beaches and a nightlife catering to the full spectrum of lifestyles.
- Alta California: This was the portion of the coast left to Mexico at the end of the Gold Wars. It included the southern half of the Central Valley, an area with no gold fields where many Mexicans had already settled. Officially it is still a Mexican protectorate today, but the role Mexico plays today is very small.
- Media California: The basin around Santa Barbara and Los Angeles started to attract non-Mexicans in large numbers around 1900. It seceded from Alta California around 1920 or so.
- Baja California: The strategic but barren peninsula was detached from Mexico and included in the California Union as part of the treaty at the end of the Gold Wars.
- Las Haónas: The mountains take their name from the name Wawona, the OTL sequoia tree. The state was set up as a reserve for the Indian tribes forced out of the valley of Alta California.
- The California Republic: The Republic is the original nucleus of the Union. The Union in its original form was simply a meeting of the colonial powers with the Republic to negotiate land and mining issues. The Republic remains the steadfast center of unionist sentiment, since its economy would fall apart if it became detached from the coast. Later discoveries of gold and silver in the Sierra Nevada led to an expansion of the Republic’s borders.
- Dalekoterra: Almost immediately after the Republic’s creation, it was split in half to reflect the two main gold-mining regions at the time. The new state got the name of Dalekoterra, a name that began with Dalyekiy (Russian for “distant”), and modified it after the pattern of Inglaterra (the Spanish place-name for England). The linguistic mishmash was appropriate for the cultural mix that lived here. Russian land companies gradually took control of a greater and greater part of the territory, and it was de facto a Russian economic colony until mining slowed down in the early 20th century. Today it is mostly a backwater.
- Halchidoma: A desert reservation left to the Halchidoma tribe because nobody else particularly wanted the land.
- Hopi and Diné: These vibrant native societies voluntarily left unreliable Mexican protection for associate membership in the California Union around 1900; California was seen as a surer guarantee of autonomy for both peoples. Hopi is a pueblo society, while the Diné or Navajo were traditionally nomadic.
- Numa: Rounding out the list of native states is Numa, a state created for the Paiute people.
- Supremacist States (Supremacia and Pietas): In the 1860's, one of the members of the ASB takes over San Francisco, forcing the ideology of the ASB onto the people of California. This doesn't work, and due to the far area, outlaws flood in from all over, with people even having slaves and doing crazy things in the colony. After a canal is built somewhere in Central America, the ASB states are better able to communicate, and basically implement systems of semi-independence in order to stop the madness. After this, a lot of the people who think they're doing the right thing make a trek inland, with the former slave-holders moving to Supremacia and Pietas. The former slaves, still segregated in San Francisco, move to form their own state as well. This new state becomes a haven for the African people, but it's heavily racist as well as unstable. They eventually turn to a harsher governmental system, to keep the protests at bay. Meanwhile, the supremacist states aren't doing too well either. Both have extremely corrupt governments, as well as pressure coming from all sides to allow blacks residence. Slavery was outlawed in the 1990's, but chaos still reigns.
- Exile States (New Kuril, Kulakja, and Azeria): These were established in patches of desert by different groups fleeing persecution in the Russian empire and related lands. New Kuril was founded by Ainu refugees losing land to Russian, Korean, and Anglo-American settlers in Sakhalin and Ezo. Kulakja was established by Kulaks hurt in a land reform. And Azeria was founded by a group of Muslims from all over the empire, with the largest contingent being Azeris from Shirvan and Circassia. They sought to create a Muslim country free of tsarist oppression. Subsequent shifts in population means that in none of these states do the respective founding groups still form a majority,but the unique Russian exile heritage is an important part of each state’s identity. Hardscrabble desert states, they rely on the Union for protection and basic services.
- Manzil Jadid: An offshoot of Azeria, founded in the early 20th century to be a stricter, purer Muslim state.
The general history of California is also being written gradually. This is Part One.
Background
California in the first half of the 19th century was a land of limitless potential. Mexico’s sovereignty was generally acknowledged over the area, but Mexico did not have the ability to fully take advantage of the territory’s riches. The infrastructure for irrigated farming did not exist yet, so most settlers relied on cattle ranching. The population was low and widely spread out, the towns and cities small. The settlers were a mix of well-to-do landowners and poor, largely Nahuatl-speaking laborers and homesteaders who came north as part of the same program that Mexico was using to populate the Great Plains.
Increasing numbers of foreigners were encroaching on the territory. Russia had operated a fort north of San Francisco for some time, but now English and American traders were also ramping up their operations in the same region. England, together with the states of New Netherland and Massachusetts Bay, operated consulates within San Francisco that functioned as autonomous trading enclaves for all practical purposes. Small posts and forts proliferated along the coast and even in the arms of the Bay, posing a real threat to Mexican sovereignty by engaging in commerce totally outside the country’s control. Mexico was not yet willing to expel the foreigners by force, and anyway they all had legal excuses that allowed them to be there. While all parties considered California to be part of Mexico, there was no treaty that defined its northern boundary, and Russia and England’s claims to the Oregon country seemed to creep further south all the time. Even the Boreoamerican states that traded in the Pacific were beginning to talk about economic “spheres of influence” in California, a clear prelude to territorial claims.
We should note that at this point, the 1850s, the ASB was a permanent institution, but it was not yet clear exactly what it was going to be. Certainly it did not yet have a voice on the world stage. Many countries had ambassadors in Two Forts to represent their interests to the Confederation, but the ASB had no permanent diplomatic service, only occasional special envoys. The separate states still had a very free hand to interact with foreign nations. The purpose of the ASB was negotiating disputes and managing the affairs of its own end of the continent. The issues that pressed its leaders centered around the development of its own institutions, such as Parliament, the primordial version of which first met during California’s Gold Wars. Matters in California certainly concerned the entire ASB and all of its members, and many Boreoamericans greatly opposed the northeastern states’ reckless meddling on the other side of the continent. But politically they could not raise the matter without alienating their neighbors; and even if the issue had been raised, none of the ASB’s institutions had the authority to do much about it. So the diplomatic struggle (and later the physical struggle) over California’s fate would be fought by New Netherland and Massachusetts Bay, and to a lesser extent Canada and Pennsylvania - not the ASB as a whole.
This was the situation in California in the late 1850s, when the discovery of gold shook the entire region.
Background
California in the first half of the 19th century was a land of limitless potential. Mexico’s sovereignty was generally acknowledged over the area, but Mexico did not have the ability to fully take advantage of the territory’s riches. The infrastructure for irrigated farming did not exist yet, so most settlers relied on cattle ranching. The population was low and widely spread out, the towns and cities small. The settlers were a mix of well-to-do landowners and poor, largely Nahuatl-speaking laborers and homesteaders who came north as part of the same program that Mexico was using to populate the Great Plains.
Increasing numbers of foreigners were encroaching on the territory. Russia had operated a fort north of San Francisco for some time, but now English and American traders were also ramping up their operations in the same region. England, together with the states of New Netherland and Massachusetts Bay, operated consulates within San Francisco that functioned as autonomous trading enclaves for all practical purposes. Small posts and forts proliferated along the coast and even in the arms of the Bay, posing a real threat to Mexican sovereignty by engaging in commerce totally outside the country’s control. Mexico was not yet willing to expel the foreigners by force, and anyway they all had legal excuses that allowed them to be there. While all parties considered California to be part of Mexico, there was no treaty that defined its northern boundary, and Russia and England’s claims to the Oregon country seemed to creep further south all the time. Even the Boreoamerican states that traded in the Pacific were beginning to talk about economic “spheres of influence” in California, a clear prelude to territorial claims.
We should note that at this point, the 1850s, the ASB was a permanent institution, but it was not yet clear exactly what it was going to be. Certainly it did not yet have a voice on the world stage. Many countries had ambassadors in Two Forts to represent their interests to the Confederation, but the ASB had no permanent diplomatic service, only occasional special envoys. The separate states still had a very free hand to interact with foreign nations. The purpose of the ASB was negotiating disputes and managing the affairs of its own end of the continent. The issues that pressed its leaders centered around the development of its own institutions, such as Parliament, the primordial version of which first met during California’s Gold Wars. Matters in California certainly concerned the entire ASB and all of its members, and many Boreoamericans greatly opposed the northeastern states’ reckless meddling on the other side of the continent. But politically they could not raise the matter without alienating their neighbors; and even if the issue had been raised, none of the ASB’s institutions had the authority to do much about it. So the diplomatic struggle (and later the physical struggle) over California’s fate would be fought by New Netherland and Massachusetts Bay, and to a lesser extent Canada and Pennsylvania - not the ASB as a whole.
This was the situation in California in the late 1850s, when the discovery of gold shook the entire region.
Have we talked about that before? IIRC you had an idea of multiple states sort of associated with the ASB without being full members. It's intriguing as long as it's done in a way that matches the spirit of the place.
Early on I know I played with the idea of including Lakota as an actual state. I decided against that, but some sort of association could fit in. I imagine the northern Great Plains as being divided into several smallish states, at least some of which have formal relationships with one or more of the bigger neighbors (the ASB, Mexico, and Rupertsland).
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I must say False Dmitri and Upvoteanthology, I’m extremely impressed with the progress you two have made. Bravo!
[FONT="]Still, I do have some questions and thoughts. Apologies for it being a bit much!
[/FONT]
[FONT="]It’s interesting to see New Netherland become an aggressive player on the world stage. What’s New Netherland’s (and to a lesser extent, Massachusetts and the English’s) relationship to the ‘Old’ Netherlands? It would interesting to see the Netherlands involved in the Gold War – or even just be more influential on the world stage itself.[/FONT]
Or perhaps “Brave New World” might be a better example.
Instead of trying to use more traditional efforts to instill control, the ruling elites (old money, corporations, and maybe crime families) rely on a super tolerance or even promotion (another way to earn profit) of “hedonistic” activities in order to distract the masses from the inherently undemocratic/economically unfair state of the current system.
Of course, there will be periods of time (such as economic downturns) where pleasure isn’t enough, at which point you can still cases of police brutality, military crackdowns, etc.
[FONT="]Another interesting possibility of this San Francisco would be its art scene. The “mainstream” portion would constantly be pushing the envelope – to the point that by the modern day, it might be globally stereotyped as purely “shocking for the sake of being shocking” with little of it being politically/socially relevant or at least relevant in fields that would conflict with the ruling. [/FONT]
[FONT="]The politically charged underground art scene though might be viewed as one of the best in the world though.[/FONT]
[FONT="]*Due to Mexico at some point wanting to wash its hands of the mess that California develops into.
[/FONT] [FONT="]Does Nahuatl maintain any presence as a spoken language in AC? [/FONT]
[FONT="]
*Since based on the description below, it seems like the C.U. was still a talking club after the Gold Wars[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]I’d assumed that Carolina might be the one that introduced slavery to California [/FONT][FONT="]since it’s still in under the English crown and still had slavery. Of course, I don’t believe it would be called slavery or be presented to the world as such.
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[FONT="]In order to bypass the presumed abolitionist sympathies of the Northern ASBians/English, I could see the Carolinians presenting it as a sort of Neo-Indentured Servitude – in which after x years, they would be set free – due to the lawlessness of this period though, that part gets quietly ignored, until of course more stable government is established. [/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]Also, considering that the Supremacist states are still – well – Supremacist, might it be possible that they might be considered “suspended”* members of the California union?
[/FONT]
[FONT="]*In the sense that the world recognizes that the territory is legally Californian/the Supremacists are forbidden to currently participate in the national government, but due to the weakness of California on the national level, the national assembly is unable to exercise much power over those states?
[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT="]Have any other groups like Russian Jews or Tartars tried to establish exile states in California?
[FONT="]Thanks[FONT="]!![/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Still, I do have some questions and thoughts. Apologies for it being a bit much!
[/FONT]
[FONT="]It’s interesting to see New Netherland become an aggressive player on the world stage. What’s New Netherland’s (and to a lesser extent, Massachusetts and the English’s) relationship to the ‘Old’ Netherlands? It would interesting to see the Netherlands involved in the Gold War – or even just be more influential on the world stage itself.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Perhaps San Francisco is able to break off by trying to woo the English with offers of SF becoming a ally/protectorate? At the very least, it would certainly lead to the creation of tensions in NN/MB and English relations. [/FONT]
Based on this description, I could easily see this version of San Francisco as a sort of “Bread and Circuses” corporatocracy (that supports Unionism simply for the sake of market access) that could possibly be summed up as a mix between the stereotypical images of OTL San Francisco, New Orleans, Las Vegas, and Weimer Berlin.
Or perhaps “Brave New World” might be a better example.
Instead of trying to use more traditional efforts to instill control, the ruling elites (old money, corporations, and maybe crime families) rely on a super tolerance or even promotion (another way to earn profit) of “hedonistic” activities in order to distract the masses from the inherently undemocratic/economically unfair state of the current system.
Of course, there will be periods of time (such as economic downturns) where pleasure isn’t enough, at which point you can still cases of police brutality, military crackdowns, etc.
[FONT="]Another interesting possibility of this San Francisco would be its art scene. The “mainstream” portion would constantly be pushing the envelope – to the point that by the modern day, it might be globally stereotyped as purely “shocking for the sake of being shocking” with little of it being politically/socially relevant or at least relevant in fields that would conflict with the ruling. [/FONT]
[FONT="]The politically charged underground art scene though might be viewed as one of the best in the world though.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Perhaps instead of being a protectorate, it got spun off* as a separate duchy or something under a minor Mexican noble?[/FONT]
[FONT="]*Due to Mexico at some point wanting to wash its hands of the mess that California develops into.
[/FONT] [FONT="]Does Nahuatl maintain any presence as a spoken language in AC? [/FONT]
[FONT="]What are the domina[FONT="]nt[/FONT] groups that immigrate to MC between 1900-1920?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Since Mexico was able to originally keep Alta California, wouldn’t Baja have officially been made a protectorate/ colony of another foreign power instead of controlled directly by the C.U.?*[/FONT]
[FONT="]
*Since based on the description below, it seems like the C.U. was still a talking club after the Gold Wars[/FONT]
[FONT="]What are the domina[FONT="]n[FONT="]t[/FONT][/FONT] languages of the CR? [/FONT]
[FONT="]How similar are the demographics of Dalekoterra to Oregon? If they’re similar enough, then I could easily imagine a small but dedicated movement on both sides of the border promoting the unification of Dalekoterra and Oregon.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Hmm, any idea of what the state of the Mayan people in Mexico from 1880 to 1900 is? I would imagine that the treatment of the Mayans would play a big role in the Hopi/ Diné decision to leave Mexico. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Upvoteanthology had messaged me this part earlier, but based on what else you’ve written, I’ve made some modifications to my analysis.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]I’d assumed that Carolina might be the one that introduced slavery to California [/FONT][FONT="]since it’s still in under the English crown and still had slavery. Of course, I don’t believe it would be called slavery or be presented to the world as such.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]In order to bypass the presumed abolitionist sympathies of the Northern ASBians/English, I could see the Carolinians presenting it as a sort of Neo-Indentured Servitude – in which after x years, they would be set free – due to the lawlessness of this period though, that part gets quietly ignored, until of course more stable government is established. [/FONT]
[FONT="]Could slavery possible last that long? I could see apartheid legally lasting that one, but I would be surprised that the ASB, Mexico, and PIC, wouldn’t put pressure on California to do something decades ago. Or is it more a case of it being on the books, but not actually practiced? [/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]Also, considering that the Supremacist states are still – well – Supremacist, might it be possible that they might be considered “suspended”* members of the California union?
[/FONT]
[FONT="]*In the sense that the world recognizes that the territory is legally Californian/the Supremacists are forbidden to currently participate in the national government, but due to the weakness of California on the national level, the national assembly is unable to exercise much power over those states?
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Does the PIC include Hokkaido? If anything, I could see the Russians trying to use the Ainu to try to take control of the island from the Japanese instead of exiling them from their lands. [/FONT]
[FONT="]What kind of land reform? Admittedly, I would be surprised that an imperial Russia would target ethnic Russians whose economic state was created by imperial land reform.[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]Have any other groups like Russian Jews or Tartars tried to establish exile states in California?
[FONT="]Thanks[FONT="]!![/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
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Probably pretty amicable, truth be told. But definitely not that close.
So the not-quite-written story is this. California was swimming in gold and miners and it was not at all clear who was in charge. The gold fields were all in areas of disputed claims, and none of the powers had much force on the ground anyway. New Netherland had a post within San Francisco that was basically an old-school trading enclave, and with the crazy situation it increased the size of its armed contingent there. The spark was the murder of a whole group of New Netherland miners just outside the city limits. The militia captain, acting on his own, surrounded the Presidio and took control.
The context for this is sort of explained in my other text post. NN's economic power and global reach were on the rise, but the ASB had not yet fully formed, at least not in terms of foreign policy. In later eras this sort of action on the world stage would not be possible.
The Netherlands proper by now was not on the scene, I think.
I don't know the full story, but in addition to that, the two states were getting a lot of pressure from the ASB confederation to let San Francisco go. States owning overseas colonies meant states continuing to have a separate foreign policy, and this would be a huge complication as the confederation began to take control of foreign affairs. Pressure from England could be part of the story as well.
Weimar Berlin was actually the exact thing that I was thinking of. Though honestly it's also sort of the OTL image of San Francisco plus a dose of oppression.
I like all of this! The underground art scene in particular was a thing I had thought about, but I like the way you put it.
That could be. This was just a beginning, and if there's better ideas coming, sure thing.
Yeah, Nahuatl in Alta California is in the same situation as on the southern Great Plains. A lot of speakers got grants of land and settled there. I think that the language situation is pretty stable and regionalized, so you could probably draw a line in AC to show which places speak Nahuatl and which places Spanish.
I was thinking people from the ASB and from China.
I assume so, certainly in the 19th century. Whether it stayed connected to Mexico or not is something I am not sure of yet. (If you hadn't noticed, I prefer to be tentative about the world until I know that an idea is really working well.
)Unless there is an objection, English and Spanish are the official languages. A lot of minority languages have been spoken there over the years, but at present it is less diverse and dynamic than the coastal states because the Republic is no longer the economic hub.
Huh, they are certainly similar enough, geographically. Oregon is a very diverse place with an idiosyncratic government. Each valley in many ways is a separate culture unto itself, so it's hard to generalize all that much. The rural areas of Oregon are probably very similar to Dalekoterra - some towns that are mainly indigenous, some English, some German, even some French. But the population today is dominated by the chain of cities that run between OTL Eugene and Vancouver. The cities have a very large Asian (Chinese, Japenese, Korean) population that does not really match anything in Dakeloterra.
So yes, Separatist opposition in Dalekoterra might have a pro-Oregon element to it; but in Oregon only the country folk are likely to get excited about it.
I know that Mexico in TTL approached the northern Indians in a way closer to the OTL United States. A lot of land was taken in the Great Plains and California and given out to homesteaders. Some actually moved into ASB territory - the state of Dakota in particular drew lots of Indian immigrants from the south and east. I can't say whether this was done to the Maya as well.
I'm going to leave this for now. I also objected to slavery lasting that long, but then Upvoteanthology explained that she was using OTL South Africa as an analogue. I'm personally still torn. This whole world is not supposed to be perfect realism, but I don't want it to be totally crazy, either.
Yes, as the Empire of Ezo. Russia did not colonize it directly, but in the later 1800s it was given to Manchuria, which was in personal union with Russia since ... quite possibly the late 18th century. So Russia had a lot of influence in there and put forth a lot of effort to attract settlers, both from Europe and across the Pacific ... in TTL the westward movement is less intense, but farther flung and includes American people emigrating to Ezo and the Russian Far East. A few even moved on to Siberia.
So even if the Russians used the Ainu, they may still have encroached on their lands later.
None of this means that New Kuril is set in stone. We want that part of the Basin to have some "odd" little states, and this was one we thought of. If there's a more interesting idea ...
I'll defer to Upvoteanthology on this one; I'm not totally sure what she had in mind for this state.
A lot of Tatars made it into Azeria; despite the name it ended up attracting Muslims from across the empire. As for Jews, I know I want something like a "Jewish Autonomous Oblast" in Manchurian territory; maybe this was more attractive than the desert. And Oregon has a big Jewish presence as well.
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It’s certainly interesting history I must say.
As for the old Netherlands, it might not directly be involved in California, but assuming it has a good enough relationship to powers in the ASB such as New Netherlands, then that could mean that the ASB could develop strong business interests in the Dutch East Indies – which could potentially lead to both California and the ASB later on developing a large Indonesian immigrant population.
Thanks!
Once the core details for California are firmly established, it will be supremely awesome to see a linguistic map for California.
IMO, I think it’s far more likely for the English or whoever to pull a Hong Kong on San Diego while leaving the rest of the peninsula under Mexico’s control. Initially at least…
Later on, Baja ~ as well as Alta and other territories out east ~ might be spun off from Mexico for various reasons such as Mexico wanting to wash its hands of Californian politics to limit any political liabilities, etc.
I’d imagine Dutch might be given legal status early on, but that might change years later as the number of Dutch speakers declines.
Oregon is now officially another country I’d love to see a linguistic map for.
Assuming Mexico goes the Bilingual cultural route – emphasizing the “glories” of both Mexico’s Indigenous and Spanish heritage – in creating a national identity, then what happens to the Mayan will probably depend on how the national leadership wants to incorporate the Mayans’ legacy and current status into the new National narrative.
Depending on how things go, the situation for different groups of Mayans could range from being left alone, to forcibly assimilated, exiled, etc. As such, you could have a situation were more rebellious Mayans either pull a Great Trek like the Boers or find themselves in their own equivalent of the Trail of Tears with both situations leading to a Mayan derived state in either California or the Northern Great Plains.
Fair enough.
Honestly, it’s an interesting history and very original. Based on AH clichés and OTL immigration patterns, I would have placed my money on either a Chinese or Japanese established state instead of an Ainu state. So based on your explanation, New Kuril would be worth keeping.
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As for other potential ideas, I think a self-imposed nationalistic Green Ukraine equivalent or a Roma homeland would be fascinating.
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OK, yes, a close trade relationship is definitely likely.
Was San Diego economically relevant in the 19th century? I suppose it has an excellent harbor and would be ripe for a trade enclave once California became more stable. But could not Mexico have developed the city on its own?
Within the State of San Francisco, it still does. But in the other states, its presence is small.
You're right, this depends on the overall vision for Mexico. The nationalist attitude toward the Maya could go either way. On the one hand, they were a great civilization. On the other, they live down in marginal jungle country.
True, the Ukrainians have no real homeland in TTL, being divided between the Kingdom of Poland and the Russian Empire. A national consciousness definitely emerged, though. Today they have the autonomous areas of Volhynia and Galicia in Poland, and Kiev in Russia. Of all Russia's autonomous areas, I would venture that Kiev has among the most devolved power. That said, it's still a part of Russia, and anti-monarchists and other more hardcore nationalists were probably exiled over the years. Russia has no shortage of places to send political exiles, but escaping to California would be a real possibility as well. This is a good idea to hold in reserve if some of the others don't work out.
I imagine small groups of Roma settling all over the western part of North America and becoming established there, including in Oregon and throughout the Californias; but I don't see them getting organized enough to carve out their own state.
ninel
Banned
If I can suggest something – looking at your map of PIC, I am seeing that the 'Volhynia' country doesn't include any of Volhynia. Perhaps it should be renamed to something like 'Podolia', or even 'Ukraine', which before 19th century meant just something like 'borderland'. I’m also skeptical of name 'Galicia', as it’s name popularised mostly by Austrians after 1st partition of Poland. Maybe 'Ruthenia' would be better.
Other that that, I absolutely love the world of PIC-ASB (and ’ve been lurking for few months), and I’m waiting for the further updates. Maybe because I’m a fan of such baroque (con)federalism.
OK, that's a likely change I will make by and by. I haven't done too much detailed development with the PIC (if that's the "real" name... I can't imagine that anyone in that timeline calls it that!), because I have not done a lot of the "required reading" on Muskovy and Poland-Lithuania that I'll need to do it justice. I like the names Podolia and Ruthenia; they are probably a lot more accurate.
Seeing how long you've had an account, and how few posts you've made, I'm really honored that you saw fit to say something to me.
In that vein, I've been playing around a lot with the main PIC map. I posted this Religions map before, but on a different thread and with some errors that have been mostly fixed.
ninel
Banned
Well, that explains some odd things about the map. And BTW, what’s the POD for Imperial Commonwealth?
For the entire world, the general PoD is in the early 17th century. But there is a lot of historical convergence; the setting isn't supposed to be "serious" or "hard" counterfactual alternate history, more an amalgam of historical things that I find interesting and try to harmonize.
This tl is as asb as shit.
But hey, it's the first asb tl I like. Even if it's implausible as shit, all this background info is just SO INTERESTING.
Keep up the good work y'all.
But hey, it's the first asb tl I like
. Even if it's implausible as shit, all this background info is just SO INTERESTING.Keep up the good work y'all
.