Would the French ever persue a Fashoda War?

Major Crimson

Major Crimson

Let's say that following the Fashoda incident, or an African Colonial confrontation similar to it, Britain and France go to war. Would France ever attempt to fight the British Behemoth? Perhaps with Russian support they could be emboldened?

As detailed in the short-lived but excellent A War of Honour, within which Britain and Russia go to war in 1898 not for economic gain but for good old fashioned pride, could this apply?

Also: do the Franco-Russians have any chance at beating the Anglo-Japanese?
 
Xgentis

Xgentis

France would try to defuse the crisis in my opinion. They have enought enemy with the German empire. The only way I could see a war is if the UK start it.
 

wietze

Xgentis said:
France would try to defuse the crisis in my opinion. They have enought enemy with the German empire. The only way I could see a war is if the UK start it.
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how about a situation where king Edward VII gets assassinated by some french loon during his visit to France/paris in may 1903?
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
As fun a scenario as the Fashoda War is to AH.commers, it's rather unlikely. The French a) knew that they could not compete with British naval power and b) were worried about Germany a lot more than they were worried about Britain.
 

Matteo

Angry Celt said:
Let's say that following the Fashoda incident, or an African Colonial confrontation similar to it, Britain and France go to war. Would France ever attempt to fight the British Behemoth? Perhaps with Russian support they could be emboldened?

As detailed in the short-lived but excellent A War of Honour, within which Britain and Russia go to war in 1898 not for economic gain but for good old fashioned pride, could this apply?

Also: do the Franco-Russians have any chance at beating the Anglo-Japanese?
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No, never.

The french knew they were so over-powered by the british that they would never go to war against the UK. Especially with Germany on its back.

This would be deliberate suicide.

You need to take into account that, from 1815 on, France knew it could never again win a war against the UK. Besides, the gap in economic power between the UK and France had never been as important as it was ... in the late 19th century.

The key axis of french diplomacy in the 19th century was : never again going to war against the UK.
 

LordKalvert

Banned
If France was assured of Russian support. To get Russian support though, France would need to get at least one other Great Naval Power to go along-
Italy, Germany or the US. Then its bye bye Britain.

The most likely scenario for a Franco-British War is that the British, before the Entente, got into it with the US over some Western Hemisphere matter or Italy/Germany over something else and France and Russia decided to join in.

This would especially have been true before the Manchurian War disrupts the balance of power on the continent.



The other time frame for a Franco-British War would be a fight over the spoils after a quick entente victory in WWI With Russia, France and Italy attacking Britain with the captured German/Austrian fleet
 

WXL1815

You need an investment of public pride in the dispute and you need a French leader with delusions of godhood, no understanding of naval power/force projection, no grasp of economics..basically Napoleon!
 

fhaessig

EvolvedSaurian said:
Alsace-Lorraine trumps Africa.
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So much this. That's the reason the French right wings politicians were AGAINST extending the french colonial empire; it diverted military ressources from the main goal.

The only way France would fight a Fashoda war is if the Franco-Prussian war is averted, or turns out a french victory.
 

Deckhand

With what particularly? By my count France had 9 turreted pre-dreadnaughts in 1898, with 2 under construction.

Russia i believe had 8 with 2 under construction.

Germany has 4 with 3 under construction

The US has 3 with 2 under construction

Italy does not have any as yet.

Britain had 30 pre-dreadnaughts and 10 under construction. More than all the others combined.

The Fashoda crisis came at the absolute peak of Royal Navy superiority. i don't think they were even as overwhelming during the Napoleonic wars.
No one's build plans had come to fruition, and dreadnaught had not yet leveled the field. In 5 years this awesome,overwhelming superiority will be mostly gone due to building and technology. But right then, at that moment, a France that fights Britain at sea loses, even if the Russians help. And they knew it.
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

Donor
Ever? Yes in some circumstances

Say, the British attack and are wiped out, and this is repeated elsewhere, say in Niger, IndoChina etc

Then the French have the momentum to continue the war. They also have the security blanket of Russia, meaning that Britain fights alone.

France just then needs to define its objectives

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 

Deckhand

Marchand had 128 Franco-Senegalese troops with him. Kitchener had 1500 Anglo-Egyptians and 5 gunboats with cannon. I suppose the British could have drunk some lead paint and come at the French single file in order to be sporting and so be wiped out, but i doubt it. If it comes to shooting Fashoda is only going one way.
 

LordKalvert

Banned
Deckhand said:
With what particularly? By my count France had 9 turreted pre-dreadnaughts in 1898, with 2 under construction.

Russia i believe had 8 with 2 under construction.

Germany has 4 with 3 under construction

The US has 3 with 2 under construction

Italy does not have any as yet.

Britain had 30 pre-dreadnaughts and 10 under construction. More than all the others combined.

The Fashoda crisis came at the absolute peak of Royal Navy superiority. i don't think they were even as overwhelming during the Napoleonic wars.
No one's build plans had come to fruition, and dreadnaught had not yet leveled the field. In 5 years this awesome,overwhelming superiority will be mostly gone due to building and technology. But right then, at that moment, a France that fights Britain at sea loses, even if the Russians help. And they knew it.
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With their large fleet of armored cruisers and torpedo boats for one. French doctrine is not Mahan but commerce raiding. Given France's better geographic position than Germany's their abilities shouldn't be underestimated

Also French gunnery is much better than British at the time so a concentrated attack against a British squadron (like the Mediterranean Fleet) might succeed and even out the odds a bit. Two and the British are in a pretty tight pickle


Its risky and France would be better off in a few years, so why fight it.

As for the military situation in the Sudan- the British are the stronger at the moment but Menelik is coming to France's aid to more than even things out a bit
 
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