Just to balance the World without Islam. What would happen if Christianity just got lost in the morass of religions perculating in the Roman Empire. I can't see any major changes in survivability of WRE and ERE or the "Barbarian" invasions of same. However could Islam still arise or at least a very close analogue, with just the Judaic tradition to draw upon? Also if ERE and Persia still wore each other out as in OTL would it burst on the scene and be even more successful?
World without Christianity
- Thread starter Lindseyman
- Start date
Religions arise when the dominant religion fails to meet the needs of certain sections of the population. Some new faith had to arise at that point because those needs - the certainty of a glorious future life, the detachment of moral good from whatever benefitted the Roman state, a sense of community and specialness - were not being met for large numbers of subjects and slaves.
Needs like those won't remain unfulfilled for long; something will bubble up. And no matter the original basis of the faith, it would become an analog of Christianity as it adapted to its adherents' needs.
So if you want to avoid Christianity or some analog you'd have to change Roman society enough to prevent those needs from arising.
Needs like those won't remain unfulfilled for long; something will bubble up. And no matter the original basis of the faith, it would become an analog of Christianity as it adapted to its adherents' needs.
So if you want to avoid Christianity or some analog you'd have to change Roman society enough to prevent those needs from arising.
This has been asked plenty of times before already, but it's a fun question.
Islam will not come into existence - aside from the huge number of butterflies that will prevent Muhammad being born anyway, Islam was heavily influenced by Christianity.
What would we see? Well, a much less monotheistic world, and no Abrahamic influence of mankind - it will be reduced to what it was before Christianity, a small faith centered in the Levant, and nothing else.
Here's a possible map of what we could see as the major religions of the middle east in the year 500 AD:
Neon blue = Tengriist (assuming turks still migrate west)
Crimson = Iberian Paganism
Dark green = Arab Paganism
Teal blue = Zoroastrianism
Orange = Hinduism
Yellow = Buddhist
Pink = Judaism
Dark red = Hellenic Paganism
Dark blue = Egyptian Paganism
Light green = African beliefs
What would happen beyond that is hard to tell. This map of course is assuming no other major religions pop up in Christianity's place.
Islam will not come into existence - aside from the huge number of butterflies that will prevent Muhammad being born anyway, Islam was heavily influenced by Christianity.
What would we see? Well, a much less monotheistic world, and no Abrahamic influence of mankind - it will be reduced to what it was before Christianity, a small faith centered in the Levant, and nothing else.
Here's a possible map of what we could see as the major religions of the middle east in the year 500 AD:
Neon blue = Tengriist (assuming turks still migrate west)
Crimson = Iberian Paganism
Dark green = Arab Paganism
Teal blue = Zoroastrianism
Orange = Hinduism
Yellow = Buddhist
Pink = Judaism
Dark red = Hellenic Paganism
Dark blue = Egyptian Paganism
Light green = African beliefs
What would happen beyond that is hard to tell. This map of course is assuming no other major religions pop up in Christianity's place.
Actually, Christianity was intentionally converting people without Paul. He made conversion a lot easier, breaking with a lot of Jewish law, but Peter, Thomas, John, Matthew, Mark, James, and Luke were all certainly converting people regardless.
Mithraism was based around secrecy. It was like of like the Free Masons of its day.
Take the point about Mithraism although it could have had a Damascene event in TTL. At the risk of invoking ASBs when did Buddhism reach Europe?
In the Hellenistic era, I believe, so pre-Christ.
No Christianity means Judaism and Zoroastrianism will be very different: they won't have to put effort into defining themselves against Christianity and Christian-influenced faiths. So, they could easily evolve in different directions, or, in the case of Zoroastrianism, never "crystalise" properly at all.
However, there is no need for this to be a single religion. You might see a dominance of Sol Invictus in one region, Isis in the next, and soteriological Zoroastrianism in a third.
Personally I would see Judaism (and a sub-regional 'Christian' pacifistic variant) dominating the region around Israel, a rise of Zoroastrianism from Persia, potentially spreading around the Middle East and parts of India, maybe some sort of polytheistic presence continuing in Arabia for a time.
To the rest, well I'm not sure, but we definitely won't be seeing one of the mystery cults rise to take the place of Christianity in importance and prominence.
We will probably see a mish mash of polytheistic beliefs differing by region as ideas adopt. Though it's possible a wild card could arise and come about spread very quickly.
To the rest, well I'm not sure, but we definitely won't be seeing one of the mystery cults rise to take the place of Christianity in importance and prominence.
We will probably see a mish mash of polytheistic beliefs differing by region as ideas adopt. Though it's possible a wild card could arise and come about spread very quickly.
John Fredrick Parker
Donor
I could actually see Buddhism making serious inroads in Europe were it not for Christianity...
The cult of Isis seemed to draw on the same "market" as Christianity, if you will.
http://hilo.hawaii.edu/academics/hohonu/documents/Vol05x19TheCultofIsis.pdf
http://hilo.hawaii.edu/academics/hohonu/documents/Vol05x19TheCultofIsis.pdf
So could I, or at least a more "muscular" European/Middle Eastern version
Seeing how incredibly syncretic Buddhism is compared to Christianity if there's no Christianity I could see that picking up steam even faster. After all the Buddhists won't be running around denouncing the polytheistic practice as idol worship or claiming they have the only true God. In Rome if one didn't disturb the peace or rebel against the Empire then you were generally left alone and Buddhists, while likely to move against other issues, don't strike me as being as likely to challenge the Roman system on spiritual grounds like Christianity did. It could be very easily grafted on to the whole system of mystery cults and popular spirituality in a very similar fashion to what happened in China, India, and Japan. That would also lead to some VERY interesting cultural implications. If Buddhism ends up filling the non-Abrahamic void that's going to have some enormous butterflies all over the place.
PhoenicianLegacy
Banned
I personally think that Mithraism will take Christianity's place in Europe until the present day. It would also prove a much less homophobic world as well!
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