WI:Yamato at Guadancanal

Lets say the Japanese decide to send the Yamato to the Guadalcanal campaign. Instead of a jumped-up pre-WWI era battlecruiser, its the planets latest BB which faces South Dakota and Washington.
I suspect that South Dakota is a goner, OTL she was hit 3-4 shells from Kirishima which did not penetrate but destroyed her radar and electrical systems.
No way she is taking a comparable number of hits from Yamato and living to tell the tale.
Washington opened fire on Kirishima before the later even knew she was there. Yamato had warning radar, so thats not likely and she had better fire control than her colleague.

Washington is FUBAR'ed at the very least.
 
South Dakota is sunk and Washington is most likely not much better off, neither were built to stand up to 18inch pounding, that Yamato can bring to this fight.
 
The fuel usage by the Yamato would cripple Japanese operations for several months. Not to mention making her a prime target for the Allies.
Not to mention she would definitely have been hit and need repairs. That would have taken up drydockand require the expenditure of resources Japan does not have to not have to spare Japan did not have to spare
 
Last edited:
South Dakota is sunk and Washington is most likely not much better off, neither were built to stand up to 18inch pounding, that Yamato can bring to this fight.
You are thinking that Admiral Lee is going to fight the Yamoto like he did the Kirishima? He would not be planning on doing that, remember the US has better radar at this time and he also knew due to aerial scouting during the day what he was facing. This was not an ambush by the IJN. He would be fighting this totally different.
 
You are thinking that Admiral Lee is going to fight the Yamoto like he did the Kirishima? He would not be planning on doing that, remember the US has better radar at this time and he also knew due to aerial scouting during the day what he was facing. This was not an ambush by the IJN. He would be fighting this totally different.
Yeah, if recon spots her we are talking as many destroyers sent with him as possible, a lot more than four.
 
Technically she would be jacked up by the previous nights fighting and then even more by the CAF weighing in the next day, if we’re replacing the two Kongos with her. Either that or Musashi dies the most humiliating death for a ship class that the IJN was pinning all their Kantai Kessen hopes on.
 
Last edited:
Actually, this makes me think of a different what if. Admittedly a lot of info about the design of Yamato was destroyed by the Japanese before the surrender, but one thing the sources tend to agree on is that the Japanese considered a lot of possible approaches to propulsion, before eventually deciding on a design which emphasized reliability at the expense of everything else. I suppose they may have (correctly) planned for being at war when the ship was finished, so they didn't want to still be trying to solve reliability problems, but they really didn't need to add massive fuel hogs to their fleet. Could Yamato have been of any more use (possibly including for this operation) if they'd decided to try to make diesel work after all, or if they'd tried to push the envelope on steam pressure to get more power and efficiency? Especially assuming they got lucky and what reliability issues they had turned out to be small and/or fixable?
 

marathag

Banned
South Dakota is sunk and Washington is most likely not much better off, neither were built to stand up to 18inch pounding, that Yamato can bring to this fight.
armor-plate-from-yamato-ship-shows-the-true-power-of-armor-piercing-shells-4.jpg

What 16" does to Yamato Plate
Want to know more?
 

marathag

Banned
And at the range Washington opened fire at this is what will happen to Yamato's belt. Her turrets might be immune as while said photo is what happened to Shinano's turret armor that was when it was both vertical and at literally 500 yards
At the link, it expains that they were downloaded in velocity to strike at two different longer ranges distance, the shells arc in, negating the sloped advantage.
closer, they punch thru at the ranges that SoDak and Washington engaged, slope or no slope
Don't need muzzle velocity to punch, that tested at 1700fps
 
Tbf to the armor, the tests did fluctuate wildly between “fit only for pig iron” and “some of the best we’ve ever tested” IIRC. Still not that great a implication though.
 
Lets say the Japanese decide to send the Yamato to the Guadalcanal campaign. Instead of a jumped-up pre-WWI era battlecruiser, its the planets latest BB which faces South Dakota and Washington.
I suspect that South Dakota is a goner, OTL she was hit 3-4 shells from Kirishima which did not penetrate but destroyed her radar and electrical systems.
No way she is taking a comparable number of hits from Yamato and living to tell the tale.
Washington opened fire on Kirishima before the later even knew she was there. Yamato had warning radar, so thats not likely and she had better fire control than her colleague.

Washington is FUBAR'ed at the very least.
Four 18" hits are going to badly hurt South Dakota, but they're unlikely to sink her. Taking it hit by hit, 14" hit #1 was a high-explosive shell to the bow above the waterline. That'll make more of a mess, but it's unlikely to be catastrophic. 14" hit #2 hit the radar plot and was a Type 3 IS shell; again, the larger 18" shell is going to demolish more stuff, but the location and shell type mean catastrophic damage is again unlikely. 14" hit #3 was an AP cap and windscreen hitting the outer shell, and then spraying either her below-water hull or upperworks with shrapnel. Again, unlikely to cause catastrophic damage, in this case because an AP cap and windscreen just plain aren't doing much more damage. If it did cause underwater damage there would be more flooding, but shrapnel isn't likely to cause catastrophic flooding, either.

Then we get the last, and that's the only 14" hit that would support your assertion. That was a direct AP hit on the barbette, which got bounced. Needless to say, it's very unlikely an 18" AP shell is getting bounced. So it punches through and detonates, disabling the turret, and lighting afire charges in the hoists. Sadly, this is also unlikely to be catastrophic. American propellant was famously insensitive; Boise survived a shell directly introducing itself to one of her magazines, for Pete's sake. It tends to burn rather than explode.

Of course, random chance could mean better hit locations with Yamato, and given the last 14" hit happened while Kirishima was on fire from getting bushwhacked by Washington, she could conceivably also get more hits. But just the original four aren't sinking South Dakota.

Washington, meanwhile, is still going to bushwhack Yamato. Yamato doesn't have radar; she only got a search set installed in 1943. And once Washington opens fire Yamato is in deep trouble. At that range her armor isn't standing up to 16" super-heavies, as alluded to upthread. 18-20 hits won't sink her like they did Kirishima, but they'll leave her slowed and in a bad state and hideously vulnerable to air attack. And that's assuming Washington doesn't have the time to get more hits in.

So, most likely this leads to Yamato and South Dakota limping away a shambles apiece, which given the state of air cover for both navies is a lot worse a proposition for Yamato than South Dakota.
 
Last edited:
Another thing to think of is what is she being fueled with. If she is using normal Bunker C all should be ok, but is she is using straight run crude like they did in some cases, they could end up with an engineering plant casualty. Later on in the war when they were mixing Bunker C with the crude or using the crude or unrefined oil it caused some of the boilers to actually explode.
 
Another thing to think of is what is she being fueled with. If she is using normal Bunker C all should be ok, but is she is using straight run crude like they did in some cases, they could end up with an engineering plant casualty. Later on in the war when they were mixing Bunker C with the crude or using the crude or unrefined oil it caused some of the boilers to actually explode.
Yamato proceeded to Truk from Japan to try and participate in the Guadalcanal campaign, so most likely Bunker C.

Yeah, if recon spots her we are talking as many destroyers sent with him as possible, a lot more than four.
The problem is the US Navy is desperately short of all types of escorts in-theater after the 1st Guadalcanal disaster. Halsey is going to be extremely reluctant to strip more destroyers out of Enterprise's screen, given he only has about a dozen or so to begin with and after the last battle knows he's unlikely to get them back.
 
Yamato proceeded to Truk from Japan to try and participate in the Guadalcanal campaign, so most likely Bunker C.

She might come down the slot because they can have air cover out of their bases. If so she might be fueled out of some place close to Rabaul that won't have the bunker c available.
 
I have to agree with CV12Hornet. If Yamato has bombardment shells in the turret and barbettes she will need to fire a couple of salvos to clear the ammo path. This will give SoDak a bit of a reprieve. Of course getting hit with 18.1 inch HE shells is no walk in the park.

However, Washington was firing at Yamato at what is knife fighting range for BBs. The 16/45 doesn't have the belt penetration ability of Iowa's 16/50s, but at that range, I think they can punch through the belt and easily punch through the 6.1" secondary turrets and barbettes.
 
At the range Washington engaged at, her guns have the horizontal penetration to go through Yamato's belt and end bulkheads at about 50 degrees off perpendicular, so Washington would be able to successfully defeat Yamato's armor at any angle. Of course, Yamato would be able to do the same thing at even longer ranges.
 
Yamato proceeded to Truk from Japan to try and participate in the Guadalcanal campaign, so most likely Bunker C.


The problem is the US Navy is desperately short of all types of escorts in-theater after the 1st Guadalcanal disaster. Halsey is going to be extremely reluctant to strip more destroyers out of Enterprise's screen, given he only has about a dozen or so to begin with and after the last battle knows he's unlikely to get them back.
Mind you with the USN knowing Yamato is coming via aerial recon its likely that 1st Guadalcanal doesn't happen as the TF64 waits for Lee's battleships before going in.
 
Mind you with the USN knowing Yamato is coming via aerial recon its likely that 1st Guadalcanal doesn't happen as the TF64 waits for Lee's battleships before going in.
1st Guadalcanal would probably not involve Yamato, frankly. There's no reason to. The first bombardment was unopposed, the only reason to involve Yamato is because of expected opposition and that's not going to be expected in the first run.

And TF64 is getting committed either way; there was nothing else that could get there in time to stop the bombardment.
 
Top