WI: Yamato and Shinano Survive the War

[Dilvish]

Already mentioned here several times: both are going to Bikini Atoll just like the Nagato (Japan's sole surviving battleship).

I did a scenario before where surviving IJN vessels were used to rearm the newly established JMSDF. Though its impractical as they were obsolete by the 1950s. The JMSDF did get the Fletcher-class, Allen M. Sumner-class, and the Gleaves-class DD, which were strong for that era. In 1956, the JMSDF built two of their first Harukaze-class destroyers, which were only decommissioned in 1985. All surviving IJN vessels were too old by the time of the Vietnam War.

Although I do admit, having the Yamato and Shinano as museum vessels would have been interesting as well.

I believe one or two IJN destroyers or escorts did serve with the JMSDF in the early days.

 

[Gillan1220]

I believe one or two IJN destroyers or escorts did serve with the JMSDF in the early days.

Providing these were not offensive weapons of war.

However, since these IJN ships were old and resource sinks in terms of repairing or reactivating, the U.S. were more than happy to sell or donate their ships that were being mothballed after World War II.

 

[marathag]

Pentagon realize they can get more money from surplus weapons by allowing Hollywood to lease them for movies than destroy them?

A thinking Hollywood production company would have bought every running Panzer in 1946 for Films, as it was obvious that there would be films about the War for the next hundred years.
didn't happen

 

[Gillan1220]

A thinking Hollywood production company would have bought every running Panzer in 1946 for Films, as it was obvious that there would be films about the War for the next hundred years.
didn't happen

Not just Hollywood, even museums or collectors could have gotten them. These would have made war movies look accurate instead of using mockups.

I remember the French utilized captured Panzers and Panthers well into the 1950s. If memory serves, some saw action in Algeria. Then even the Israelis faced off with Panzers in Golan Heights in 1967.

 

[Resurgam]

@Geon 's "How Silent Fall The Cherry Blossoms" had Yamato's fate as an epilogue - the war ends earlier, so Operation Ten-Go is butterflied and the ship is captured intact by American forces after the surrender.

Might be a little ASB, but I liked it.

Postscript – Fate of the “Mighty One”
Perhaps one of the most poignant tales of post-war Japan was the final fate of the Yamato.Before the surrender of Japan the great battleship had been in preparation for one last great mission.It was known that sooner or later the Americans would land troops on the islands of Iwo Jima and later Okinawa.Japanese planners had intended that Yamato would sortie with a small group of warships on a one-way trip to Okinawa and attempt to beach on the shore of that island to end its life as a gun platform taking as many U.S. ships and troops as possible before it was destroyed.

The early surrender of Japan in March, 1945 brought an end to those plans.Under the terms of the surrender all surviving Japanese naval units were to be turned over to the United States.One of the ships was of course the Yamato.This created a big problem, what do you do now that you are the owner of the largest battleship on Earth?

After some consideration it was decided that the Yamato would be sailed to Hawaii where for the time being it would remain docked as a “war prize.”A select prize crew was selected to take the vessel to Pearl Harbor and Admiral “Bull” Halsey was selected as the temporary captain of the ship.The purpose behind the choice was to give Halsey a chance to enter Pearl Harbor on one of the mightiest warships afloat which he had helped to capture, and the very one from which Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto had planned the attack on that same naval base

It is said many of the IJN naval officers and sailors who had sailed on Yamato were on the docks and on boats in the harbor watching the proud “Mighty One” begin her journey to Pearl Harbor.Many wept openly and unashamedly and over a dozen crew and officers later committed hara-kiri out of sheer grief at the loss of this greatest of ships.

Halsey would arrive in Pearl Harbor to a heroes’ welcome.Sailors and civilians watched as Admiral Yamamoto’s flagship sailed into the naval base.To a man all of them could only gape in awe at the sheer size of this great ship.

For Halsey sailing the Yamato to Pearl Harbor had a very profound effect.Being aboard the Yamato Halsey could understand the pride the Japanese had in this “wonderful lady”, as he came to call her affectionately on the trip over to the U.S.The man, who vowed after Pearl Harbor that when he was done the Japanese language would only be spoken in Hell, now had softened as he stood on the decks of the mightiest of Japanese warships.

After the Yamato docked it would become a tourist attraction for a year.But its final disposition was still in question.Then in 1946 it was announced that the Yamato would be sailed to Bikini Atoll to take part in Operation Crossroads, a series of atomic bomb tests to determine how effective nuclear weapons were against naval surface ships.Several ships from both Axis powers were to be the “guinea pigs” for these tests.

When Fleet Admiral Halsey learned of the plans for the Yamato his exact words were, “Over my very dead body!”Admiral Halsey would later write that having been given the honor of piloting that incredible ship all the way to Pearl Harbor he was “damned if he was going to allow that beautiful ship to become a pile of radioactive junk.”

Halsey asked for help from every source he could get to save the Yamato.He even went on radio talk shows throughout the country.He urged people to write Washington and save a ship which even though it had been on the opposite side of the conflict was too fine a vessel to end up sunk.

Halsey’s appeal was very successful; starting with amazingly enough U.S. naval veterans who had fought in the war in the Pacific.Even more amazing was that some of these men were veterans of the Task Force Taffy 3 which had faced down the Yamato in the Battle of Leyte Gulf.To a man these veterans who supported Halsey agreed that turning Yamato into a target for a nuclear weapon was not the end that ship deserved.

Even more touching was what happened when an elementary school teacher, one of many, asked her 4th grade class to write letters for an assignment where the children were asked to tell President Truman why the Yamato shouldn’t be sunk, and the top 3 judged by the teacher would be sent to the White House.The letter which won first place would later be published both in the local newspaper and in others throughout the country.

Dear Mr. President Truman
The Yamato is a very big and beautiful ship.Even though it was part of the Japanese Navy it is still a very wonderful proud ship.Now that the war is over I don’t think we should bomb it but we should save it so that future mommies and daddies can show it to their children.We should always try to remember the past and not destroy it….

The letter writing campaign was successful.In May, 1946 it was announced that the Yamato would not be going to Bikini Atoll but would stay in Pearl Harbor as a permanent museum piece.The announcement was hailed by many although many other wanted to see Yamato at the bottom of the sea, old wounds did die hard.

In 1948 the Yamato was opened as a floating maritime museum.Some of the first guests were Japanese sailors and officers who had served upon her as well as the young girl who wrote the letter above, and Admiral Halsey.The Japanese naval personnel offered their deepest thanks to Admiral Halsey for his help.Halsey is said to have remarked to one of the senior officers, “We may have been enemies but damn you fellas built one hell of a ship!”

For the next sixteen years the Yamato would attract huge crowds.Then in 1965 a meeting occurred in Hollywood that would have major implications for the vessel.The Toho film company, famous for creating Godzilla and other famous monster films approached Hanna-Barbera with a proposal.A script was being produced for a new feature length animated film and Toho wanted to have American cooperation on the project.The project would later be called Star Quest.

Star Quest was to be a science fiction action/adventure film set in the near future.In the film the battleship Yamato would be used as a backdrop for many of the scenes.Parts of the ship were meticulously photographed and then carefully drawn to form the backdrop for the film.In the film the battleship was converted into a starship by the brilliant professor Dr. Benton Quest of the now well-known Johnny Quest cartoon series.Then the ship and a hand-picked international crew headed into space to find a cure for a deadly virus launched at Earth by the evil Gamelon Empire.The film ran 2 ½ hours and used several ground breaking animation techniques.It also featured many name-level stars in the voice roles.

The film would gross millions at the box office and became a smash hit both in the U.S. and Japan.The result was that many people flocked to Pearl Harbor, Hawaii to see the great lady. The film would spawn two remakes in the 80’s and in the 2000s as well as several TV series.

On the 40th anniversary of the Los Angeles attack President Reagan spoke aboard the Yamato as he announced that the U.S. would be the first nation to sign the International Treaty Outlawing the Use of Chemical and Biological Weapons.Speaking to a crowd of World War II veterans from both sides of the Pacific the President said, “The ship we are on if it could talk it could tell us many a story.In signing this treaty it is my hope that there will be future generations to which its stories both in reality and in fiction will still resonate.”

Last edited: Jun 26, 2017

 

[Gillan1220]

@Geon 's "How Silent Fall The Cherry Blossoms" had Yamato's fate as an epilogue - the war ends earlier, so Operation Ten-Go is butterflied and the ship is captured intact by American forces after the surrender.

Might be a little ASB, but I liked it.

Man, this would have been awesome. Seeing the Yamato and later the USS Missouri in Pearl Harbor.

Of course, the Japanese would indeed want it back for this timeline. Maybe the U.S. would relent eventually, just like how they did regarding the Balangiga Bells of Samar which was only returned to the Philippines in December 2018.

 

[Mordalfus Grea]

That's Yamato's possible future secured but what about her sole surviving Sister ship?

Could she be retrofitted and then gifted to the Republic of China? I know it's out there but it would be an interesting fate in Yamato's Carrier sister ship was moored up in Taiwan come modern day as a museum ship

 

[PhilKearny]

Ideally, if the Shinano and Yamoto survived, they would have been tried before the war crime tribunal, found guilty, sentenced to death, hanged by the neck until dead, and recycled as unmarked of steel ingots. These ingots would have been the used for the manufacture of plowshares and other tools of peace.

 

[TheMann]

@Geon 's "How Silent Fall The Cherry Blossoms" had Yamato's fate as an epilogue - the war ends earlier, so Operation Ten-Go is butterflied and the ship is captured intact by American forces after the surrender.

Might be a little ASB, but I liked it.

That's awesome. ASB, sure, but it's still quite awesome.

 

[Resurgam]

That's awesome. ASB, sure, but it's still quite awesome.

ASB to me is literal divine, magical, or other supernatural intervention. None of that is happening here. If the war ends soon enough, Yamato would have still been afloat. Maybe the Americans not nuking her is a hard sell, but if you had someone like Halsey vouching for her preservation... who knows?

(Geon has also Word of God'd that Enterprise was preserved.)

 

[RamscoopRaider]

You could probably save one of the two by a combination of accident and bureaucratic inefficiency. IE Yamato is towed to the US to be examined before a date with Bikini, but when being towed to Bikini she grounds somewhere and is stuck ala Warspite. The tests go on without her, because the results are more important than waiting for one more ship and it takes a long time to free her, no rush, just another hulk for arms testing. By the time she's removed the Bikini tests are over, but she's reserved for testing some other weapons system as a big armored ship. Then oops that project got cancelled due to budget cuts, reserve her for something else, oops tests cancelled to free up resources for Korea, oops we used one of the old Standards instead until say the mid 50's, when the decision is made to just to scrap her. But say bureaucratic hell for a couple years, stuck in limbo for a lawsuit etc. and keep her until the 60's, at which point the Japanese make an offer for her at slightly more than scrap value and eventually restore Yamato as the centerpiece of a museum

However this requires a lot of coincidence to say the least, and while doing it once is sort of believable, twice would not be

 

[Dilvish]

I was inspired to have another silly idea. It is half-baked, if that much.

Late in the war, the Japanese discover the Chinese oil fields. Yamato and Shinano are eventually moved to a port on the west coast of what is now North Korea. For some reason, Yamato and Shinano are captured by the advancing Soviets. Shinano is moved to a Soviet port, but Yamato remains where she is for some reason. Ah, she was damaged by air strikes and stuck in port. Later she successfully drove off the USN's TF 95, but was further damaged by the large cruisers Alaska and Guam. Repairs took a long time...

Fast forward to the Korean War and the American landing at Inchon. Yamato, now flying a North Korean flag, is considered a possible threat. A surface task force, built around the battleships New Jersey and Vanguard, and the heavy cruisers Newport News, Canberra, and Algerie stands ready to counter a sortie by Yamato.

 

[Alanith]

I was inspired to have another silly idea. It is half-baked, if that much.

Late in the war, the Japanese discover the Chinese oil fields. Yamato and Shinano are eventually moved to a port on the west coast of what is now North Korea. For some reason, Yamato and Shinano are captured by the advancing Soviets. Shinano is moved to a Soviet port, but Yamato remains where she is for some reason. Ah, she was damaged by air strikes and stuck in port. Later she successfully drove off the USN's TF 95, but was further damaged by the large cruisers Alaska and Guam. Repairs took a long time...

Fast forward to the Korean War and the American landing at Inchon. Yamato, now flying a North Korean flag, is considered a possible threat. A surface task force, built around the battleships New Jersey and Vanguard, and the heavy cruisers Newport News, Canberra, and Algerie stands ready to counter a sortie by Yamato.

Given how poorly Royal Sovereign was used, I can’t see Yamato being in better shape.

 

[Dilvish]

Given how poorly Royal Sovereign was used, I can’t see Yamato being in better shape.

True. Hence, one of the reasons the USN and RN were confident if Yamato sortied. They were wanting Yamato and the North Korean "fleet" to sortie.

 

[RandomFloridian]

Maybe after the Americans capture the Yamato and Shinano intact, they can transfer the ships to the Republic of China.

 

[Admiral Jellicoe]

The Japanese only commissioned one former IJN warship into the JMSDF. She was the Wakaba, formerly Nashii, a modifed Matsu class escort that had been sunk in the Inland Sea in July 45 and then refloated and rebuilt. She was broken up in 1972. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDS_Wakaba.

A number of destroyers and destroyer escorts were distributed to China/Taiwan up to an Akizuki class but few if any saw any real service and were not much more than hulks. My copy of Jane's 1960 suggests that Taiwan was probably operating the former Yukikaze (Kagero class) in the 1950's and I think she is therefore the largest operational combatant from the IJN still in service postwar.

Japanese destroyer Yukikaze (1939) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Thoresby]

As everyone else has said in 99 timelines out of a 100 Yamato if still floating is at Bikini Atoll but I think there is a very small chance that she ends up in San Diego or San Francisco as a war prize/museum ship. She is very big and the US did have the money post war to do odd things like that.

 

[Resurgam]

As everyone else has said in 99 timelines out of a 100 Yamato if still floating is at Bikini Atoll but I think there is a very small chance that she ends up in San Diego or San Francisco as a war prize/museum ship. She is very big and the US did have the money post war to do odd things like that.

Your biggest problem is why the Americans would want to do that when legendary American ships like Enterprise went to the breakers.

 

[Gillan1220]

That's Yamato's possible future secured but what about her sole surviving Sister ship?

Could she be retrofitted and then gifted to the Republic of China? I know it's out there but it would be an interesting fate in Yamato's Carrier sister ship was moored up in Taiwan come modern day as a museum ship

Well the ROC-N did receive some Japanese destroyers which they later retrofitted with American weapons.

I was inspired to have another silly idea. It is half-baked, if that much.

Late in the war, the Japanese discover the Chinese oil fields. Yamato and Shinano are eventually moved to a port on the west coast of what is now North Korea. For some reason, Yamato and Shinano are captured by the advancing Soviets. Shinano is moved to a Soviet port, but Yamato remains where she is for some reason. Ah, she was damaged by air strikes and stuck in port. Later she successfully drove off the USN's TF 95, but was further damaged by the large cruisers Alaska and Guam. Repairs took a long time...

Fast forward to the Korean War and the American landing at Inchon. Yamato, now flying a North Korean flag, is considered a possible threat. A surface task force, built around the battleships New Jersey and Vanguard, and the heavy cruisers Newport News, Canberra, and Algerie stands ready to counter a sortie by Yamato.

Could the North Koreans in 1950 operate the Yamato? It's too complex for the KPA. Even if the Soviets change the guns or other weaponry. I could see it fall victim to F4U Corsairs or even a B-29 bomber if the KPA managed to get the Yamato.

Even when the North Koreans captured the USS Pueblo in 1968, she was more of a trophy than actual asset.

The Japanese only commissioned one former IJN warship into the JMSDF. She was the Wakaba, formerly Nashii, a modifed Matsu class escort that had been sunk in the Inland Sea in July 45 and then refloated and rebuilt. She was broken up in 1972. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDS_Wakaba.

A number of destroyers and destroyer escorts were distributed to China/Taiwan up to an Akizuki class but few if any saw any real service and were not much more than hulks. My copy of Jane's 1960 suggests that Taiwan was probably operating the former Yukikaze (Kagero class) in the 1950's and I think she is therefore the largest operational combatant from the IJN still in service postwar.

Japanese destroyer Yukikaze (1939) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Correct. The former IJN DDs and DEs were donated to the ROC as a form of reparations. Of course, since the Japanese weapons and equipment were outdated, the ROC refitted them with American guns, engines, and radars. I'm really amazed these continued operating well into the Vietnam War era, considering these ships were in their 40s or 50s by the time of the early 70s.

Eventually, the ROCN got the Knox-class frigates to replace these aging ones.

 

[Nebogipfel]

A thinking Hollywood production company would have bought every running Panzer in 1946 for Films, as it was obvious that there would be films about the War for the next hundred years.
didn't happen

This leads straight to some movie related ATL. Assault on a Queen, but not with a German U-Boot but as last horray for the Yamato before being scrapped?