WI: Vietnam War Run By The Navy & Marine Corps

[Deleted member 94680]

Only 190,000 Marines in 1965.

Wow. ‘Only’ One hundred and ninety thousand?

The Malayan Emergency was fought and won with - at most - 351,000 men (allowing for total figures of all Commonwealth forces combined) in it’s entirety. Given the depth of American manpower reserves, the potential amount of time for expansion and increased recruitment or even conscription, the likelihood of the conflict being fought in a different manner and the qualitative difference between Marines and Commonwealth troops, I’d say 190,000 is enough to be started with.

 

[Marquis]

Success in Malaya was as a result of over a century of waxing and waning efforts in counter insurgency work throughout the Empire that - despite some glaring failures - gave the British Armed Forces more than half an idea what to do in a situation like that. The US had a HULK SMASH thing going that didn't work with the terrain, opposition, and allies available. Correction. The US still has a HULK SMASH thing going, and look how well it has served them in Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

Wow. ‘Only’ One hundred and ninety thousand?

The Malayan Emergency was fought and won with - at most - 351,000 men (allowing for total figures of all Commonwealth forces combined) in it’s entirety. Given the depth of American manpower reserves, the potential amount of time for expansion and increased recruitment or even conscription, the likelihood of the conflict being fought in a different manner and the qualitative difference between Marines and Commonwealth troops, I’d say 190,000 is enough to be started with.

That 190,000 were integrated into the USN, and had global commitments, and included the training base in the US. Committing half the 190,000 to Viet Nam pretty much trashes all the other missions the US Navy amphibious forces had globally. As the war rampped up so did the USMC strength, peaking out somewhere around 215,000.

 

[Deleted member 94680]

That 190,000 were integrated into the USN, and had global commitments, and included the training base in the US. Committing half the 190,000 to Viet Nam pretty much trashes all the other missions the US Navy amphibious forces had globally. As the war rampped up so did the USMC strength, peaking out somewhere around 215,000.

So how many grunts would the US have available to deploy, from the get-go? Would it be possible to put a meaningful presence on the ground made up entirely of USMC personnel?

 

[PNWKing]

Knowing the Marines it's possible that the term "Vietnamization" would not exist.

 

[Riain]

From what I can gather in the mid 60s there were 3 Regular Marine Divisions, 2 of which were in Vietnam by 1965, the 4th Division was a Reserve unit and the 5th Division was a Force in Readiness unit tasked with training up units to deploy to Vietnam with the 1st and 3rd Divisions of the III MAU.

The USMC would struggle to do more than that IMO, that's a pretty big effort for them.

 

[DG Valdron]

How do the Marines deal with the massive systematic corruption and incompetence of the South Vietnamese government, and the pervasive alienation of the South Vietnamese countryside and peasantry from the urban elites? Because if you can't fix that, it's just a different brand of lipstick on the corpse.

 

[Riain]

How do the Marines deal with the massive systematic corruption and incompetence of the South Vietnamese government, and the pervasive alienation of the South Vietnamese countryside and peasantry from the urban elites?

With bullets and bombs!

 

[DG Valdron]

With bullets and bombs!

By Jove! That is sure to work! Once the South Vietnamese government is eradicated then the Vietcong will be a piece of cake.

 

[Marc]

Re: the first point made about experience in counterinsurgency - the Corps was 30 years past that, and had just about completely reconfigured for other types of warfare. They really didn't have any experiential edge by the mid- 1960's.