WI: US Backed Argentina in the Falklands war

overoceans

sparky42 said:
He like so many others including Reagan are Irish-Americans, not Irish.
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I think you're onto something with the Irish-American specification.

Tip O'Neill was Irish-American in the sense of having been raised in the US among Irish immigrants and their descendants, and imbuing much of that culture, which would have included, among other things, a close familarity with (if not always adherence to) the Catholic faith.

Can the same really be said about Ronald Reagan?
 

Alanith

naraic said:
Britain would be more likely to pull out NATO commitments.
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Exactly. It would be a unmitigated disaster for America and NATO if Britain takes its ball and goes home, or even worse, makes noises towards reconciliation towards the Eastern bloc. Argentina on the other hand brings.... what exactly to the table? Expertise in throwing nuns and college students out of airplanes?
 

Cryhavoc101

David Flin said:
It had its upside. The nurse who escorted me from San Carlos to Uganda was one Alison Brooks and, well, we ended up getting married.

It was an unusual first date - two months on a luxury liner with an engagement agreed by the end of it.

And Mills & Boon rejected this story outline as being: "too unrealistic".
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I knew you both met down there but I was unaware she had been your nurse ;)
 

naraic

overoceans said:
Interesting. I wasn't aware of Reagan trying to bury his Irish roots. I'd imagine that it wouldn't have been very hard for a semi-competent genealogist to out him, regardless of what the Irish ambassador did.

Certainly, by his second-term, Reagan The Irishman was in full swing as a defining media trope. That's also when you started hearing more about his supposed appeal to Catholics qua Catholics, as opposed to just Christians generally.
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In 84 he visited Ireland. I'm pretty sure he embraced his Irish roots in a big public around the time of his visit.
overoceans said:
I think you're onto something with the Irish-American specification.

Tip O'Neill was Irish-American in the sense of having been raised in the US among Irish immigrants and their descendants, and imbuing much of that culture, which would have included, among other things, a close familarity with (if not always adherence to) the Catholic faith.

Can the same really be said about Ronald Reagan?
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I believe Reagan's father held to Catholicism while his wife was some shade of devote Protestant. Reagan picked up his religious beliefs from his mother.
 

sparky42

naraic said:
In 84 he visited Ireland. I'm pretty sure he embraced his Irish roots in a big public around the time of his visit.

I believe Reagan's father held to Catholicism while his wife was some shade of devote Protestant. Reagan picked up his religious beliefs from his mother.
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Given he pushed Thatcher into coming to the table for the 1985 Anglo-Irish agreement, yeah he was leaning into his Irishness by then.
 

Belisarius II

overoceans said:
Not that I disagree with most of what you've said here, but...

How culturally Irish was Reagan, really? I don't want this to sound like sectarian prejudice, but I struggle with the idea that someone who wasn't even baptized Catholic can be considered Irish in the way that Tip O'Neill was.

And religion aside, was Reagan even brought up in an Irish cultural milieu? My understanding is that he was raised in a series of small towns in Illinois. Were they places with strong Irish communities?

Full disclosure: I've always kind of assumed that Reagan's Irish image was largely based on his having an Irish surname, combined with having played iconic Irish characters in a couple of movies.
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Not all Irish are Roman Catholics. Reagan was a Right to life, serious Christian, with a deep love for Ireland, and a true respect for the Catholic Church. It helps to play Irish characters if you've grown up with them, and know them all your life. Trust me, I grow up with Irish cops, and I could play one to a tee. The Irish are the largest ethnic group in the United States, with over 50 million members.
 

Citycat

Chris Nation said:
Did he? The US certainly made out quite well from the crisis. Prior to Suez, the Middle East was essentially a British sphere of influence. After Suez, the Americans rapidly supplanted the British.
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The Arab World fell into the Soviet sphere of influence after Suez, and set the US back 20 years before it could regain influence there.
 

Riain

Banned
There's been a bit of talk about the close relationship between the US abd UK but I don't think people realize how close it was. The US shared the designs of their most advanced nuclear warheads with Britain while Britain developed an advanced RV material used on US ICBM/SLBMs. No other US ally comes remotely close to this level of sharing, where the US gives Britain the keys to its most closely guarded secrets.

The US was never going to back Argentina, not in a million years, and Kirkpatrick was a fucken idiot.
 

overoceans

@naraic

I believe Reagan's father held to Catholicism while his wife was some shade of devote Protestant. Reagan picked up his religious beliefs from his mother.
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According to a website called the Catholic Education Resource Center, Ronald's father was an "apathetic Catholic" who left the religious education of his children to their protestant mother.

Based on what I've been reading, it's not clear to me now if Reagan was baptized Catholic or not. In any case, if his father didn't even attempt to raise him Catholic, then I believe he was in violation of an official church obligation to do so.
 
Aghasverov

Aghasverov

Flashman said:
It was by definition a third world country
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Maybe by definition... but I've long thought those definitions and categorizations to be inadequate. Think the average citizen of Buenos Aires might take a bit of offense at being classed as "Third World"... Most of the "southern cone" doesn't exactly look like one of those old commercials for the Christian Children's Fund....
 

Peg Leg Pom

Aghasverov said:
Maybe by definition... but I've long thought those definitions and categorizations to be inadequate. Think the average citizen of Buenos Aires might take a bit of offense at being classed as "Third World"... Most of the "southern cone" doesn't exactly look like one of those old commercials for the Christian Children's Fund....
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I seem to remember the press at the time calling them a Tin Pot Banana Republic.
 
juanml82

juanml82

Aghasverov said:
Maybe by definition... but I've long thought those definitions and categorizations to be inadequate. Think the average citizen of Buenos Aires might take a bit of offense at being classed as "Third World"... Most of the "southern cone" doesn't exactly look like one of those old commercials for the Christian Children's Fund....
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Well, it's not like our gdp per capita will grow if we replace "Third World" with a more PC term, so why would it matter?
 
Aghasverov

Aghasverov

juanml82 said:
Well, it's not like our gdp per capita will grow if we replace "Third World" with a more PC term, so why would it matter?
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It wouldn't, but anyways GDP per capita isn't exactly an ideal way of judging quality-of-life... but anyhoo this was a bit of a digression, dragging the OP a bit off-topic...
 

DougM

If the US was truly neutral GB is going yo have a harder time of it. If the US is supporting Argintina the GB may or may not lose my gut is GB wins but it gets nasty.
If the US goes all in GB hasn't a chance.

The problem is the US citizens will have a FIT if we support a tinpot dictatorship against our best aliy,
And yes this is ASB to happen with out a huge POD so long ago that we would not recognize the world any longer. As many of these PODs goes you have to change so much to male it hapoen that the who
e thing will not happen because the world has changed to much.
 

Alanith

Riain said:
There's been a bit of talk about the close relationship between the US abd UK but I don't think people realize how close it was. The US shared the designs of their most advanced nuclear warheads with Britain while Britain developed an advanced RV material used on US ICBM/SLBMs. No other US ally comes remotely close to this level of sharing, where the US gives Britain the keys to its most closely guarded secrets.

The US was never going to back Argentina, not in a million years, and Kirkpatrick was a fucken idiot.
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Yep, at best you get a WW1 style scenario where she makes promises to the Argies that turn out to not be supported by the rest of the government, and ends up "Encouraged" to take early retirement.

DougM said:
If the US was truly neutral GB is going yo have a harder time of it. If the US is supporting Argintina the GB may or may not lose my gut is GB wins but it gets nasty.
If the US goes all in GB hasn't a chance.

The problem is the US citizens will have a FIT if we support a tinpot dictatorship against our best aliy,
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Who cares about the US citizens? The Pentagon and Congress will make noises that make the revolt of the admirals a minor affair if Regan seriously decides he would rather see NATO go down in flames for the sake of a third world dictatorship. There would be serious consideration to invoking the 25th on grounds of senility.... which as it turns out, probably wouldn't be too terribly far off the truth.
 
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Evans II

Banned
Belisarius II said:
Not all Irish are Roman Catholics. Reagan was a Right to life, serious Christian, with a deep love for Ireland, and a true respect for the Catholic Church. It helps to play Irish characters if you've grown up with them, and know them all your life. Trust me, I grow up with Irish cops, and I could play one to a tee. The Irish are the largest ethnic group in the United States, with over 50 million members.
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How many of them are Scotch-Irish or even English but just latch to Irishness because they think it is cooler? In all seriousness, though, there is probably more people of English and German heritage, than Irish in the U.S.
 
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