WI: the Habsburg don't do incest
- Thread starter Volpij
- Start date
Define "incest" because if that means cousin marriages then they were no more guilty of that than the Capets, Hohenzollerns or Wittelsbachs.
If you mean in terms of uncle-niece marriages, that was AFTER inheriting Spain and they were simply continuing a practice they "inherited" from the Trastamara and Aviz.
It had zip to do with keeping bloodlines pure (like the Ptolemies did it), it had to do with the Reformation seriously cutting the list of candidates short (the last three Habsburg empresses - Elisabeth Christine of Brunswick, Wilhelmine Amalie of Brunswick and Eleonore Magdalene of Neuburg were all either Protestant or half-Protestant, but ALL had to convert if they weren't Catholic already).
Well, not practicing the great array of incest matches of the Hapsburgs is rather difficult as they inherited it from their Iberian forefathers (Philip II's first marriage, for example, was for his double first cousin Maria Manuela of Portugal, his son by her, Carlos, being just as damaged by inbreeding as Carlos II two centuries later) even before the number of suitable matches was greatly diminished by the protestant reformation.
The lack of said matches wasn't, in my opinion, exactly due to the lack of catholic houses but due to status: the major catholic monarchs (France and Spain/Austria) seem to have prefered marrying to dynasties of similar rank, which was a problem when most of the kingdoms of Europe decided to jump into protestantism (and seem to not be as interested in the territorial rank of their brides' families). So there would also be a need for the Spanish in special to look into those minor duchies
If the Hapsburgs managed to pull it up (probably having most of their brides come from northern Italy, so Medicis, Ferrara, Gonzagas, etc), We could see them being larger in numbers (the incest not dwindling the women's fertility), and so maybe have their territories be more divided over time (more relatives to send to serve as regents and viceroys)
The lack of said matches wasn't, in my opinion, exactly due to the lack of catholic houses but due to status: the major catholic monarchs (France and Spain/Austria) seem to have prefered marrying to dynasties of similar rank, which was a problem when most of the kingdoms of Europe decided to jump into protestantism (and seem to not be as interested in the territorial rank of their brides' families). So there would also be a need for the Spanish in special to look into those minor duchies
If the Hapsburgs managed to pull it up (probably having most of their brides come from northern Italy, so Medicis, Ferrara, Gonzagas, etc), We could see them being larger in numbers (the incest not dwindling the women's fertility), and so maybe have their territories be more divided over time (more relatives to send to serve as regents and viceroys)
Even by avoiding the unfortunate Uncle-Niece marriages would go a far way in removing some of the redundant and ultimately disastrous genetics. If the Spanish Hapsburgs marry more outwardly such as German Catholic houses, the previously mentioned italian dynasties, or even Spanish nobility then the effects of OTL will be avoided.
Besides the Wittelsbachs, who was there after the Reformation and before the Treaty of Westphalia? Cleves and Lorraine were the only "real" contenders, and most of the time Lorraine was chronologically challenged with regards to matches with the Habsburgs (Henri II to Anna of Inner Austria; Charles V to Maria Eleonore of Austria) or with the idea of a marriage between one of Henri II's daughters and Infante Carlos of Spain (elder brother of Felipe IV) France objected since Carlos was also supposed to be named heir to the Spanish Netherlands.
Cleves' extinction meant that the Catholic League in Germany looked like a "Friends of Bavaria" meeting.
Not gonna happen. A Trastamara or Aviz Spain will agree to it, Habsburg not a chance. German idea of "equal" marriage (rather than the purity @Fex called it) - likewise seen as why Mary Tudor refused to marry Edward Courtenay or Mary, Queen of Scots rebelled at the idea of marrying Dudley/Darnley at first - meant that a member of the royal family member marrying a local wasn't "done".
Even in France where the concept of morganatic marriages didn't exist, it was regarded as "not the done thing"
German Catholic dynasties had quite bad luck during 16th century. Among these dukes or margraves who remained staunch Catholics post reformation we have:
-George the Bearded of Saxony, who outlived his sons and was succeeded by Protestant brother
-Casimir Hohenzollern, who died from dysentery fighting for Habsburgs in Hungary, after his death his brother George raised his kids as Protestants
-two oldest sons of Henry of Brunswick-Wolfenbuttel were killed in battle of Sievershausen, they were staunch Catholics like father, after their death Julius, only surviving son of Henry became heir of Wolfenbuttel, and he happened to have Protestant leanings.
-John William of Cleves had no issue
If more HRE dukess remained Catholic, Habsburg would have bigger pool of available spouses.
-George the Bearded of Saxony, who outlived his sons and was succeeded by Protestant brother
-Casimir Hohenzollern, who died from dysentery fighting for Habsburgs in Hungary, after his death his brother George raised his kids as Protestants
-two oldest sons of Henry of Brunswick-Wolfenbuttel were killed in battle of Sievershausen, they were staunch Catholics like father, after their death Julius, only surviving son of Henry became heir of Wolfenbuttel, and he happened to have Protestant leanings.
-John William of Cleves had no issue
If more HRE dukess remained Catholic, Habsburg would have bigger pool of available spouses.
One of the Jagiellon girls as second wife for either Carlos V after 1539 or for Felipe after 1545 would be interesting.
I mean, the Emperor never married again and he lived till 1555 and Felipe only marries Mary I after being widowed for nine years.
Either of them could have married instead again (Carlos) or sooner(Felipe) for a second time and produced kids with their new and not closely related wife.
And the Jagiellon girls had all the good things that Habsburgs were looking for
-Catholic
-Royal family
-couple of interesting claims through blood
I mean, the Emperor never married again and he lived till 1555 and Felipe only marries Mary I after being widowed for nine years.
Either of them could have married instead again (Carlos) or sooner(Felipe) for a second time and produced kids with their new and not closely related wife.
And the Jagiellon girls had all the good things that Habsburgs were looking for
-Catholic
-Royal family
-couple of interesting claims through blood
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There was a plan for Isabella Jagiellon to remarry to the widowed Ferdinand I at one point, secure Janos Szigmond Zapolya a "protector". There was alslo talk of a remarriage between Karl V and Marguerite de Valois in 1540 already (IIRC a marriage between Jeanne III of Navarre and Felipe was also discussed at this point. While During Felipe's "widowed for nine years" there had been considerations for both Maria of Viseu (who Felipe was apparently interested in when Mary became available) and Margarethe of Austria (Ferdinand I's daughter). Ferdinand I refused the second idea because he saw it as Karl attempting to welsh on the deal to leave the empire to Ferdinand, and Karl V had to marry his daughter Maria to Maximilian II as a way of assuring that this wasn't the case.
I have read that too.
I just brought forward the Jagiellon because they are fresh blood into the Habsburgs and the whole Iberian family business and since this thread is about that, I thought the Jagiellons as fitting brides.
I think Ferdinand + Izabela Jagiellon match would be likely if Ferdinand was widowed before 1540. That way Ferdinand would block Izabela + Janos match and would cut off any Jagiellon help to Zapolya.
That would be interesting too.
Though I still would cheer for a Polish/Spanish marriage too.
OTOH not that much fresh blood, since Ferdinand of Austria had already married Anna of Bohemia & Hungary, a Jagiellon. So every Austrian archduchess (and archduke) since already had some Jagiellon blood. On the short run it would benefit the Spanish branch, but if the marriages between the two branches remain the same, then it only postpones the matter.
In general a surviving Polish branch of the house Jagiellon would add another house of equal stature for potential brides. Still ITTL you’ll probably see slightly more French (Valois/Bourbon) Spanish Habsburg matches, while the Austrian Habsburgs would more often marry a Polish Jagiellon.
Eh, I don't think they would've conquered Europe. And as stated previously, the Habsburgs weren't the first or only royals to practice cousin-cousin or uncle-niece marriage. But the line that sprang from Philip the Handsome and Juana la Loca already had issues due to the close relatedness of many Iberian royal families. Remember as well that Philip's paternal grandmother was a cousin to Juana's maternal grandmother.
True..... But since this thread is about Habsburg don't do incest like in OTL, it would mean that all the future direct Cousins and Uncle/Niece hankypanky also wouldn't be done, right?
Second and third Cousins maybe then though, but not the first Cousins like OTL.