WI the 'border states' remain neutral during the ACW

[tinfoil]

In April of 1961, Ft Sumter had fallen. In OTL, Lincoln, in response, calls up an army of 75,000 troops to 'put down the rebellion'. He actually sent messages to every remaining state in the union, informing them of their 'quota' of troops to enlist.

This enraged the four border states of Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas, which quickly suceeded from the Union after weeks of trying to stay neutral. Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware did not succeed, but were so hostile that the Union had to all but occupy them to ensure relative cooperation.



What if...

Lincoln calls upon the several states to provide troops only on a voluntary basis to assist in 'preserving the Union' (The 75,000 troop target was easily met in OTL from the remaining loyal states). Furthermore, he waits a bit longer and gets the full backing of congress rather than ruling by executive order, so that the border states don't treat this as 'Mr Lincoln's War'.

Now the war is less 'North Vs South' (and therefore 'free' vs 'slave') and more 'Cotton States against the Union'. The slavery sentiments in those states that depended heavily on cotton was much more than in other 'slave' states, as the value of slavery elsewhere was much more marginal. Slavery would have probably vanished soon enough in some of these other states just due to pure economics.

(BTW, I find the practice of human slavery repugnant, and I do not wish anything discussed on this thread to be taken as an endorsement of slavery in any form. We are merely exploring alt-history during a period where the 'peculiar institution' is not yet eliminated)

 

[Lordkraken]

They wouldn't have been able to saty truely nuetral for long, especially as most fighting would have too take place in the boarder states. But, if they didn't secced, then the Confederacy would have fallen much faster (no suprise) because they had that many fewer reasources to draw on and wouldn't have Lee on their side.

But the Emacipation proclimation and therefore the end of slavery immediatly after the war might never have happened. Lincoln was apprehensive of alienating the 4 slave states the Union in OTL. It would have been much more extreame with 8 states and the new four being more slavery based. Slavery might have continued for sometime after.

 

[Archangel Michael]

I've never heard Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, and Arkansas being referred to as border states.

Anyway, the Union now has Robert E. Lee on its side, and the Confederacy has lost one of the most industrial southern states. War ends in 1862 or 1863.

 

[HueyLong]

I've heard of Virginia and Tennessee as such. They both had pro-Union sentiments, and were reluctant to join the CSA.

 

[Archangel Michael]

I've heard of Virginia and Tennessee as such. They both had pro-Union sentiments, and were reluctant to join the CSA.

I've always read that the border states were Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, Delaware, and possibly West Virginia.

 

[HueyLong]

Those are what you normally hear about. But, some books mention the Unionist sympathies of those two states, especially Tennessee.

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

Generally, poor whites opposed the Confederacy and the land/slaveowning classes supported it. This would mean the Unionist areas are the uplands, where small farms dominate, and the pro-secession areas are the cotton-growing low country.

 

[HueyLong]

Virginia (not counting West Virginia) was still fairly pro-Union. A lot of economies there relied on northern businessmen going there for vacation, or on northern founded businesses.

 

[Xen]

Virginia was a border state until Ft Sumpter!

However there is one thing that bothers me

Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware did not succeed, but were so hostile that the Union had to all but occupy them to ensure relative cooperation.

Where did you get this little tid bit of information? The only state that this even remotely begins to describe is Maryland, with Missouri being an outside shot. Missouri was invaded by the Union and had its "legitmate government" declare it a member of the CSA, however there was a pro-Union anti-slavery government that took its place, effectively making two Missouri's.

Kentucky was just the opposite, it was attacked by the CSA, had its "legitmate government" declare loyalty to the Union while a pro-Confederate government was set up in Confederate controlled territory.

Delaware? Nothing exciting ever happens in Delaware! I dont think there was any real serious threat about it seceding from the Union, especially without Maryland doing so first.

Maryland, was divided even as it was occupied by the Union. When the Confederacy invaded for the Battle of Antietam, many Marylanders saw them for what they were invaders. Those Marylanders who did want to join the Confederacy were very discouraged by what they saw. The Southern soldiers were very poorly equipped, many didn't even have shoes, so Maryland after this battle became more pro-Union.

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

Where did you get this little tid bit of information? The only state that this even remotely begins to describe is Maryland, with Missouri being an outside shot. Missouri was invaded by the Union and had its "legitmate government" declare it a member of the CSA, however there was a pro-Union anti-slavery government that took its place, effectively making two Missouri's.

AFAIK, Missouri was about 90% anti-slavery before the Civil War. Very effective gerrymandering kept the pro-slavery faction in power.

Kentucky was just the opposite, it was attacked by the CSA, had its "legitmate government" declare loyalty to the Union while a pro-Confederate government was set up in Confederate controlled territory.

Again, Gallup wasn't around in those days, but a safe estimate is that at least 75% of Kentuckians supported the Union.

Maryland, was divided even as it was occupied by the Union. When the Confederacy invaded for the Battle of Antietam, many Marylanders saw them for what they were invaders. Those Marylanders who did want to join the Confederacy were very discouraged by what they saw. The Southern soldiers were very poorly equipped, many didn't even have shoes, so Maryland after this battle became more pro-Union.

Don't forget North Carolina, Tennessee, and North Alabama, large parts of which were in full-scale rebellion against the bankrupt and incompetent Confederate government, illustrated by this link.

 

[tinfoil]

Virginia was a border state until Ft Sumpter!

However there is one thing that bothers me



Where did you get this little tid bit of information? The only state that this even remotely begins to describe is Maryland, with Missouri being an outside shot. Missouri was invaded by the Union and had its "legitmate government" declare it a member of the CSA, however there was a pro-Union anti-slavery government that took its place, effectively making two Missouri's.

Kentucky was just the opposite, it was attacked by the CSA, had its "legitmate government" declare loyalty to the Union while a pro-Confederate government was set up in Confederate controlled territory.

Delaware? Nothing exciting ever happens in Delaware! I dont think there was any real serious threat about it seceding from the Union, especially without Maryland doing so first.

Maryland, was divided even as it was occupied by the Union. When the Confederacy invaded for the Battle of Antietam, many Marylanders saw them for what they were invaders. Those Marylanders who did want to join the Confederacy were very discouraged by what they saw. The Southern soldiers were very poorly equipped, many didn't even have shoes, so Maryland after this battle became more pro-Union.

Sorry, that's the fault of lazy posting on MY part. I meant to say that "Parts of...", and forgot to qualify it properly.

AFAIK, immediately after Ft Sumpter, pro-"states rights" protesters (NOT the same as pro-slavery!) rioted in Baltimore and area when the first of the Union army units (and these were units in existence before 1861) tried to reinforce washington by way of Maryland. There was a period of several weeks where washington was only defended by several hundred men (plus the brass in the War department).

 

[Xen]

Don't forget North Carolina, Tennessee, and North Alabama, large parts of which were in full-scale rebellion against the bankrupt and incompetent Confederate government, illustrated by this link.

Yup I knew that much. The Appalachain regions of the southern states were very pro-Union. I once wrote something about more states out of the south where the Appalachain regions became their own states. The renewed state of Franklin from eastern Tennessee and Western Carolina, a larger West Virginia with a larger bite taken from Virginia, northern Alabama, northern Georgia, and northwest South Carolina, etc.

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

While I can't find much good evidence of active revolt in western North Carolina, the portions of that state south of the Cape Fear may break away too. The Lumbees were fiercely anti-Confederate, as per this link.