WI:Stalin sends all Germans to Siberia and Far East

[Datner]

During WW2 Germany uses chemical weapons against Soviet citizens and soldiers. As a consequence Stalin after victory decides to send most male Germans in his occupation zone to Siberia and Far East. They are dispersed so that they will not form a single large group.
The Territory of East Germany is declared to be the reclaimed Wendish Republic before germanisation and settlers from Russia, Ukraine are put there alongside Soviet military.
What would be next ?

 

[ninebucks]

Well he'd get away with it for starters. A lot of nasty things were done to the ethnic Germans in the post-War Eastern Bloc, but due to political inexpediency, no one ever really raised it as an issue.

Furthermore it permenantly negates the possibility of German reunification, Germany is going to only be West Germany from now on.

As for the Germans in the East, its possible that they may seek asylum in China once the Sino-Soviet Split takes off. In OTL diasporic Russians in Northern China are considered an official ethnic minority, perhaps in TTL, the Germans will also be so recognised in the PRC.

 

[birdy]

Does he just send men of military age or everyone else too?

Probably see an increase in people trying to escape to Western held Germany.

 

[Chengar Qordath]

Well he'd get away with it for starters. A lot of nasty things were done to the ethnic Germans in the post-War Eastern Bloc, but due to political inexpediency, no one ever really raised it as an issue.

Furthermore it permenantly negates the possibility of German reunification, Germany is going to only be West Germany from now on.

Actually, one intriguing possibility is that deporting all the East Germans might push the post-war treatment of Germans to the point where, once the Cold War ends (assuming butterflies don't make Communism economically viable) Germany is more willing to try and assert some claims for reparations/a right of return. Having core areas of the German heartland like Saxony and Brandenburg stripped away would certainly make the Germans much more resentful towards the outcome of the war than in OTL.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

What would be next ?

Why in the hell there was a chance for this possibility anyway ?

 

[NomadicSky]

I think they should have done that to the Germans. All allied powers should have. After what the Germans did they didn't deserve to stay in their homeland.

 

[ninebucks]

I think they should have done that to the Germans. All allied powers should have. After what the Germans did they didn't deserve to stay in their homeland.

Such a notion of collective, ethnic responsibility is exactly what led to Europe persecuting the Jews for two thousand years. Besides, many of the Germans in question were ethnic Germans in non-German nations, not even German citizens.

Oh, and be careful saying things like that. Calls for ethnic cleansing are not really tolerated on this board.

 

[Prestonian]

I think they should have done that to the Germans. All allied powers should have. After what the Germans did they didn't deserve to stay in their homeland.

What the Nazis did was disgusting and showed them to be some of the most depraved monsters to ever exist. Even so, many Germans resisted them or joined the armed forces because of nationalistic feelings. The real Nazis weren't the German soldiers, sailors and pilots, but the SS, the concentration camp guards and Hitler and his cronies.

Back to the question - what would happen to East Germany post-1991?

 

[Datner]

Even so, many Germans resisted

Do you have any figures from any sources to back that statement ?

The real Nazis weren't the German soldiers, sailors and pilots, but the SS, the concentration camp guards and Hitler and his cronies.

IIRC 37% of Germans supported genocide of Jews in 1947. Quite a lot in my view.

Many nations have caused similar atrocities, such as the UK and US, but

UK or USA didn't classify whole nations as creatures that are below animals and didn't create industry to exterminate them.


But back to the question.

Why in the hell there was a chance for this possibility anyway ?

Mass chemical warfare by Germany against Soviets, leads to bigger retribution from Stalin. He also argues that the lands under Soviet control were germanised (which is rather correct from historical point of view) and he we will restore Slavic population there.
Germany is limited to borders of original German state somewhat along those lines regarding its eastern border:

 

[FrolicsomeQuipster]

I think they should have done that to the Germans. All allied powers should have. After what the Germans did they didn't deserve to stay in their homeland.

Yea, they should all have been deported to America.

 

[MerryPrankster]

Datner,

Your position is still fundamentally collectivist and reliant on emotionalism.

Furthermore, you don't provide a source for the claim that 37% of Germans supported the genocide and, even if it is true, that does not justify punishing the 63% of the Germans who did NOT.

 

[Datner]

Furthermore, you don't provide a source for the claim that 37% of Germans supported the genocide and, even if it is true, that does not justify punishing the 63% of the Germans who did NOT.

I never said it was justified or not justified. I am just asking what would happen if Stalin did such thing.

 

[MerryPrankster]

I never said it was justified or not justified. I am just asking what would happen if Stalin did such thing.

It certainly looked like you were trying to justify such a policy in your earlier post. Your arguments sounded an awful lot like those made by HurganPL, a Polish nationalist who was recently banned for being over the top, although I will give you credit for being far saner than he was.

Now, if Stalin had decided to do it, I think it would lead to an earlier souring of relations between East and West. People would think Stalin was quite insane.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

Now, if Stalin had decided to do it, I think it would lead to an earlier souring of relations between East and West. People would think Stalin was quite insane.

Agree. Because there is simply no real reason for Stalin to do such things that would give no benefit for him anyway.

 

[Datner]

Because there is simply no real reason for Stalin to do such things that would give no benefit for him anyway.

The Germans will be usefull as source of cheap labour to rebuild Soviet industry, Germany will forever be crippled so that it will never raise to challenge for supremacy and the Soviets now encircle Central and Eastern Europe in a cordon.

 

[ninebucks]

UK or USA didn't classify whole nations as creatures that are below animals and didn't create industry to exterminate them.

Well, that's debatable. Certainly they never did it to anyone White.

Germany is limited to borders of original German state somewhat along those lines regarding its eastern border:

Stalin using the borders of the Eastern Frankreich, that's weird on so many levels...

The Germans will be usefull as source of cheap labour to rebuild Soviet industry, Germany will forever be crippled so that it will never raise to challenge for supremacy and the Soviets now encircle Central and Eastern Europe in a cordon.

Except you specified they be sent to Siberia and the Far East, there was no war damage there.

 

[Datner]

Except you specified they be sent to Siberia and the Far East, there was no war damage there.

There is industrial production to grow, mines to be opened, factories to be build etc. Its overall damage, not the direct one.

Stalin using the borders of the Eastern Frankreich, that's weird on so many levels...

Not very different from OTL where he used the borders of Piast Poland from 1000 AD as basis of Polish-German border.

Well, that's debatable. Certainly they never did it to anyone White.

While Africans were second class citizens they were never considered something even less then animals to be exterminated.

 

[NomadicSky]

Such a notion of collective, ethnic responsibility is exactly what led to Europe persecuting the Jews for two thousand years. Besides, many of the Germans in question were ethnic Germans in non-German nations, not even German citizens.

Oh, and be careful saying things like that. Calls for ethnic cleansing are not really tolerated on this board.

I didn't say to kill them just move them someplace else. The French send those in their zone to northern Africa the British send them to their colonies in southern Africa. The Americans send them to their pacific colonies, Cuba and PuertoRico.

 

[Prestonian]

What if the populations of those areas where the Germans were sent rejected the Germans and resented them? How would the Soviet authorities react?

 

[Datner]

What if the populations of those areas where the Germans were sent rejected the Germans and resented them? How would the Soviet authorities react?

Eeee, they wouldn't care ? Soviets weren't creating holiday resorts. Most of people exiled to Siberia or Kazakhstan in OTL had to build their own shelters, work for food etc.

I didn't say to kill them just move them someplace else. The French send those in their zone to northern Africa the British send them to their colonies in southern Africa. The Americans send them to their pacific colonies, Cuba and PuertoRico.

Thats an original idea, never thought about that. Germany could become a large nature reserve with few outpost where mines or hydro-power plants are.