WI: SS Kaiser Wilhelm II: 1914

The_Last_Plantagenet

The_Last_Plantagenet

Die New York Überfall

What if before the ship set sail for New York in 1914, the kaiser ordered that the ship carry troops instead of Passengers? When the ship reached New York, instead of the passengers disembarking the troops suddenly begin war on American soil. Could this happen?
Would they need more troop carriers?
How would the raid go at all?
 
Last edited:
Resurgam

Resurgam

The question I would have to ask is "why."

The United States is at peace, and the Germans were always concerned about bringing them into the war until things got desperate. If they changed their policy of torpedoing American-connected ships over the Lusitania, I would think launching a sneak invasion of New York would be very stupid.
 
Derek Pullem

Derek Pullem

Donor
Very silly

Just over 4000 (judging from her later role as a troop carrier for the USA) lightly armed soldiers arrive in New York City.

They would actually be outnumbered 2:1 by the NYPD.

How can it possibly fail? :D
 
The_Last_Plantagenet

The_Last_Plantagenet

Depends how lightly armed they are, for example let's replace around 500 men with machine guns and crews, that's a distinct advantage over some cop.
Also there is the surprise of the whole thing, how long would it take for all the police in New York to mobilise to the dock while the German troops disembark
 
Derek Pullem

Derek Pullem

Donor
How long would it take for the Germans to disembark down a single gangplank?

Honestly - you're either trolling or very very silly. I think the latter :D
 

cpip

king_of_the_penguins said:
Depends how lightly armed they are, for example let's replace around 500 men with machine guns and crews, that's a distinct advantage over some cop.
Also there is the surprise of the whole thing, how long would it take for all the police in New York to mobilise to the dock while the German troops disembark
Click to expand...

In addition to "how long does it take the police to mobilize", and its companion, "how long does it take the U.S. Army to respond from Forts Wadsworth and Hamilton", let us also include "how long does it take the United States Navy to respond by sending a cruiser to shell the Wilhelm at dock".

Assuming that all goes right, you're landing a single unsupported German regiment in a very large city, roughly 6,500km away by sea, with no means of support.

This is a suicide raid, and I would wager that any German officer knows it. Even assuming they manage to do some damage to the piers -- it might prove interesting to research where SS Kaiser Wilhelm came to dock, whether it was along the West Side piers or in Brooklyn -- those 4,000 men will ultimately be overwhelmed and either killed or captured, probably within a week, and a blatant act of war against a neutral party will end up bringing the United States into the war in 1914 rather than 1917, and there will no longer be any debate in Congress as to "well, should we bother with a European war?" There will instead be bloody shirts waving and an intent to avenge every last police officer and civilian who died in the fighting in New York City.

This is the stuff of fever-dream invasion literature, and if you're going down that route, by all means enjoy the ride, but no sane individual, and even few insane ones, would countenance such a plan.
 

robcraufurd

Derek Pullem said:
They would actually be outnumbered 2:1 by the NYPD.
Click to expand...
You forgot the National Guard and the Naval Militia (1,037 officers and 16,440 men in the former, 84 officers and 1,341 men in the latter). Based on unit locations, I reckon there's about 10,500 troops within New York:

First Brigade, 6th Division (104 Park Avenue, NYC)
- 7th Regiment of Infantry (643 Park Avenue, NYC)
- 12th Regiment of Infantry (120 West 62nd Street, NYC)
- 69th Regiment of Infantry (68 Lexington Avenue, NYC)
- 71st Regiment of Infantry (104 Park Avenue, NYC)
Second Brigade, 6th Division (1322 Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn)
- 14th Regiment of Infantry (1402 Eighth Avenue, Brooklyn)
- 23rd Regiment of Infantry (1322 Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn)
- 47th Regiment of Infantry (355 Marcy Avenue, Brooklyn)
Divisional Cavalry
- First Regiment of Cavalry (12 troops): 1579 Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn
- Squadron A, Cavalry (4 troops): 1339-1349 Madison Avenue, NYC
- Machine Gun Troop, Cavalry: 1339-1349 Madison Avenue, NYC
Divisional Artillery
- First Regiment (4 batteries): 1988 Broadway, NYC
- Second Regiment (3 batteries): 165-179 Clermont Avenue, Brooklyn
- Battery D, Second Regiment: Franklin Avenue and 166th Street, Bronx
Coastal Artillery
- Eighth Coast Defence Command (10 companies): 75 East 94th Street, NYC
- Ninth Coast Defence Command (10 companies): 125 West Fourteenth Street, NYC
Naval Militia
- First Battalion- foot of West 97th Street, North River, NYC
- Second Battalion- foot of 52nd Street, Brooklyn.

The thing about Pearl Harbour is it balances the probability that the attack will bring the US into the war with the possibility of destroying the US Navy's ability to take the fight to the Japanese. This raid would bring the US into the war, without actually causing them anything more than a minor inconvenience. The Germans could try and destroy the docks to prevent reinforcements being sent to the Western front, but there's a lot of them, there'd be nothing stopping US troops from being sent to other ports like Boston, Portland or Halifax instead, and without the raid the reinforcements wouldn't be sent in the first place.

EDIT:
cpip said:
it might prove interesting to research where SS Kaiser Wilhelm came to dock, whether it was along the West Side piers or in Brooklyn
Click to expand...

FLYING SQUAD RAIDS LINER AT HOBOKEN; Special Customs Detail Captures Goods Secreted by the Crew of Kaiser Wilhelm II.
After the North German Lloyd Liner Kaiser Wilhelm II., from Southampton, Cherbourg, and Bremen, had landed her passengers at Hoboken yesterday morning, a special detail of Customs Inspectors, known as the "Flying Squad," went on board and made a search above and below decks for contraband goods. (New York Times, 5th March 1914)

EDIT 2:
Actually, the mention of Hoboken reminds me I should have added some New Jersey troops (some of which are as close as the Brooklyn ones) into the mix. There are two troops of cavalry in Newark, a field battery at East Orange, the First Infantry at Newark and the Fourth Infantry at Jersey City, and a battalion of the Naval Reserve at Hoboken itself. I'll exclude the Fifth Infantry because it's c.15 miles away, so might not have arrived the same day as the invasion.
 
Last edited:
The_Last_Plantagenet

The_Last_Plantagenet

If they sent its sister ships as well; SS kaiser Wilhelm der grosse, SS KronPrinz Wilhelm, and SS KronPrinzessin Cecilie. If, say, three of these ships carry troops so that's now 12,000 troops and the fourth upgraded to have some proper naval cannons. Would this Uber raid work?
 
Pangur

Pangur

Donor
`Work'? Work how,to achieve what? All this would achieve is get the raiding force either dead or captured and the US in war early. Germany did a lot to keep the US out of the war in OTL
 
Derek Pullem

Derek Pullem

Donor
king_of_the_penguins said:
If they sent its sister ships as well; SS kaiser Wilhelm der grosse, SS KronPrinz Wilhelm, and SS KronPrinzessin Cecilie. If, say, three of these ships carry troops so that's now 12,000 troops and the fourth upgraded to have some proper naval cannons. Would this Uber raid work?
Click to expand...

No they would be sunk by the New York Battery at Fort Hamilton. Out of date but quite adequate to sink merchantmen.

You could add the entire HSF if you like and it's still silly (how do you supply the "raid", what is it supposed to achieve?)
 

cpip

king_of_the_penguins said:
If they sent its sister ships as well; SS kaiser Wilhelm der grosse, SS KronPrinz Wilhelm, and SS KronPrinzessin Cecilie. If, say, three of these ships carry troops so that's now 12,000 troops and the fourth upgraded to have some proper naval cannons. Would this Uber raid work?
Click to expand...

Well, you've now destroyed anything even resembling surprise, as these four ships didn't sail in a pack in peacetime, so everyone will know something's up when all four sail out of schedule, which means the Royal Navy will be interested -- or are you suggesting they are dispatched before the outbreak of war, as part of the opening moves in July? In that case it's even more baffling: the Germans were attempting to keep the British out; why on earth would they invite the Americans into the war?

Now that we're up to 12,000 troops (and presumably all infantry, because if you want cavalry you're losing even more space), you've gutted an entire division and more, which the German war plan has probably already allocated somewhere, because the German war plan had allocated everyone somewhere.
 
Derek Pullem

Derek Pullem

Donor
The other problem this idea has is that it would have to be done prior to the outbreak of war in Europe as the US interned German merchant ships from August 1914 onwards.

So the sudden appearance of four large ocean liners deliberately seeking internment at the same time is bound to cause a few suspicions. And there will be troops already waiting.

If it was done before the war then Germany wants to start WW1 by declaring war on the US - that's crazy!?
 
Dalekiller

Dalekiller

Well The Allies can sleep easy now that the US is on their side, its not like the US fleet is terrible at their jo-. Hmmm, just realized what I said.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top