WI: Scenario Lancaster England And Castille

Math

Math

Well in this timeline, John of gaunt Have a son With Constance of Castile and managed to force her claim to the Castilian throne And Henry IV Manages to overthrow Richard II, How would the timeline with this Scenario develop?

Scenario bonus: Henry V still appears, he doesn't need to be brilliant like OTL, but with the help of his uncle in Castile he managed to defeat the French, but he still dies and is succeeded by an incompetent son, Leading to the war of the roses, In a scenario like this, what changes in the war of the roses, would the Castile Lancasters get involved in?
 

Elfwine

Math said:
...is succeeded by an incompetent son, Leading to the war of the roses, In a scenario like this, what changes in the war of the roses, would the Castile Lancasters get involved in?
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I think the answer to "what changes" depends on how you get the Wars of the Roses here - it wasn't so much generic incompetence on Henry's part as specific failures and choices that lead to the Wars of the Roses, but if the French are decisively beaten by Henry V the things that provoked York OTL aren't happening.

The Castilian Lancasters - well, they might, depending on what's going on in the Iberian peninsula too much to say without looking at the specifics. It's one of those things you could probably set up a plausible scenario for either, because the answer is in the details of what's going on.
 
Aluma

Aluma

Chernabog90 said:
Sorry Lancastrian branch in Portugal
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No problem!

I dont think Portugal would join either the Hundred Years War or the War of Roses other than sending a token force

IOTL the portuguese made no intervention in either despite the Aviz Dynasty descending from the Lancasters and here not only can England-Castille finish off France for good without help(assuming Alt-Henry V) but also trying to claim the lancastrian crown for themselves would bring Portugal into a personal union with Castille, which is the exact outcome the Aviz Dynasty was estabilished to avoid

Of course in a few generations the portuguese monarchs will not give a crap about that and will try to create Spain anyways, but during the first half of the 15th century the war against Castille was still in living memory
 

Jan Olbracht

What about this: John of Castile have only daughters and peace treaty between him and John of Gaunt is reverse of OTL: Gaunt's son marries his daughter and then they inherit Castile?
 
Math

Math

Jan Olbracht said:
What about this: John of Castile have only daughters and peace treaty between him and John of Gaunt is reverse of OTL: Gaunt's son marries his daughter and then they inherit Castile?
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Okay, let's say it happens like this, what would the butterflies be like? Would the Lancastrians of Castile get involved in English politics?
 

wwbgdiaslt

Let's say that the path from Edward III to Henry VI runs as OTL - in 1361, Henry VI is deposed by ostensibly Yorkist forces on the grounds that he's a bit rubbish.

At this point, Edward of Westminster is hanging around.

Gaunt's Castilian son (let's say John) inherits Castile from his mother whilst Henry IV later inherits England from his fathers claim. At this point, we have John of Lancaster and Henry of England of the House of Lancaster.

John of Lancaster marries Eleanor of Castile, daughter of King John of Aragon, and they later rule as joint monarchs. They have a son (John III) and he later has a son (Henry III) who is King of Castile when Henry VI of England is deposed, as the closest male-line Heir aside to Westminster, the nobles turn to Henry of Castile as King and, as luck would have it, Henry III, born in 1425, is married to Richard of Yorks eldest daughter, Anne, born 1439.
 

Elfwine

wwbgdiaslt said:
as the closest male-line Heir aside to Westminster, the nobles turn to Henry of Castile as King
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I have to say I'm curious why they would do this. It seems that the Yorkists don't care about whether or not the House of York has a better claim than the House of Lancaster in this timeline, but between that and removing the OTL events that gave York a grievance - well, we're looking at something utterly unlike the OTL Wars of the Roses if there's a civil war in the first place.
 

Fulano

This scenario would be a nightmare for France. In OTL, things became, more or less, on France's side thanks to the Trastamaras being pro-Valois and making Castile into being a reliable ally against English incursions. But in this alternate timeline, both Castile and England are on the same side, probably dogpiling at France at any chance they could. And that's not counting the rest of the English allies, Aragon and Portugal (and probably Navarre), in the equation.
 
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