WI Rohm found out about his planned purge?

[Cryptic]

Success really depends on how comprehensive things get. If say Goring gets loose and starts giving orders in just about any capacity there will be streetfighting and the army likely to step in. If its a smoothish coup my guess is the army will sit in barracks waiting for orders until its too late then find itself as voenspetsy.

I am thinking that even partial success might prevent WWII: Lets say that Rohm's coup only disbands the SS and reincorperates it into the SA. Hitler is placed under house arrest pending his "rehabilitation". Some key pro Hitler types are executed or killed while "resisting arrest" etc.

Rohm lacks the skill and the business backing to lead Germany. The now humiliated Hitler would make a poor super Fuhrer. The result, a right wing junta takes over Germany. Rohm has a place on it, Hitler does to, but more in a support role.

The junta contents itself with reclaiming the Ruhr, bringing the Sudentland into the Reich, and announces that Poland can avoid war if Gdansk / Danzig and German speaking Silesia are returned to Germany.

 

[Kordo]

I am thinking that even partial success might prevent WWII: Lets say that Rohm's coup only disbands the SS and reincorperates it into the SA. Hitler is placed under house arrest pending his "rehabilitation". Some key pro Hitler types are executed or killed while "resisting arrest" etc.

Rohm lacks the skill and the business backing to lead Germany. The now humiliated Hitler would make a poor super Fuhrer. The result, a right wing junta takes over Germany. Rohm has a place on it, Hitler does to, but more in a support role.

The junta contents itself with reclaiming the Ruhr, bringing the Sudentland into the Reich, and announces that Poland can avoid war if Gdansk / Danzig and German speaking Silesia are returned to Germany.

I could see a right-wing junta lusting after the Sudentland and Danzig/Silesia, but would they be willing take the risks and go for those regions? My understanding is that many in Hitler's regime thought his efforts were too risky.

 

[Vingilótë]

I could see a right-wing junta lusting after the Sudentland and Danzig/Silesia, but would they be willing take the risks and go for those regions? My understanding is that many in Hitler's regime thought his efforts were too risky.

There were very few in Germany who felt that the Eastern border question was to be left as it was before, even with moderates. Bear in mind, for example that, while Streseman was only too happy to buy peace with France by affirming the border in the West, no German would accept the Eastern border that had given so much land to Poland.

Mind, there's still a big difference in scale. It really was only the far-right who envisioned the massive wars of conquest; but most Germans felt that Germany had at least some claim to West Prussia, Upper Silesia, and Austria (especially Austria, given how many of them actually wanted to join Germany, but were forbidden from doing so).

 

[HeavyWeaponsGuy]

He is not totally stupid, most likely he would get out of Germany and provide an anti-Hitler voice outside of Germany

It would probably depend on just how the circumstances of this play out. Does Rohm find out about this on the eve before the attack? Or does he find out with enough time beforehand to organize his forces and work on pre-emoting a move against him?

Leaving Germany drastically decreases his chances of taking power, since the initiative belongs to whoever is on the scene at the time, and Rohm doesnt strike me as the type to willingly leave Germany unless he has no other choice. I think it all goes down to what Rohm thinks his chances are against Hitler and preventing a counter-coup lead by the Army.

Where? Would the Western powers host him? Might he go to Austria?

Cheers,
Ganesha

I am not entirely sure Austria would play ball here. Even if Rohm was Hitler's enemy, he is still a Nazi, and that makes him a potential threat to Austrian independence. Not to mention that any kind of involvement in a Nazi political situation would seriously endanger Interwar Austria's attempts to keep out of any entanglements with Germany. They might look the other way on letting the Italians take him though.

Italy playing hard containment against Germany prior to the formation of the Axis is nothing too surprising after all.

 

[jmc247]

He doesn't really have enough support to effectively act against Hitler, who in turn was supported by pretty much the whole Reichswehr.

*It's 'Röhm', not 'Rohm'. Learn to write our letters, Americans!

Do you really expect the Reichswehr to support a guy openly advocating a large-scale purge of the German officer corps and then on mass consuming the German Army into the SA?

Ernst Röhm and his SA colleagues thought of their force (now over three million strong) as the future army of Germany, replacing the Reichswehr and its professional officers, whom they viewed as "old fogies" who lacked "revolutionary spirit".

Röhm wanted to be made Minister of Defense. In February 1934, he demanded that the much smaller Reichswehr be merged into the SA to form a true "people's army".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichswehr

 

[Simon]

*It's 'Röhm', not 'Rohm'. Learn to write our letters, Americans!

Yeah, but you guys lost.

 

[Hörnla]

Rohm lacks the skill and the business backing to lead Germany. The now humiliated Hitler would make a poor super Fuhrer. The result, a right wing junta takes over Germany. Rohm has a place on it, Hitler does to, but more in a support role. .

That combination will hardly work for long. SA and Reichswehr are still incompatible. Getting Hitler replaced once he failed was the reactionarys' wet dream in '33; but Hitler will never play along with Arrangements like this. He'll commit suicide or directly plot his return to power....

Interesting Points:
-Schleicher might survive, too. Perhaps the "political general" is able to Strike a Deal with Röhm?
-Hindenburg is not yet dead. Technically, if Hitler leaves the stage, it is up to him to present a successor.

 

[Max Sinister]

Hitler was in no good standing with Mussolini

Heh. One time, Mussolini even stated that there nazis were nothing but murderers and pederasts. Take That!

 

[Gannt the chartist]

One thing missed the head of the SA is Hitler. Roehm is his Chief of Staff. Unless Hitler is out of the way he can overturn any orders given by his subordinate. Roehm and whoever he sends to do the job are not fools. The first the thing they do is have loyal men shoot him. Not doing that always leaves open the opportunity that someone will obey orders goven by the Head of the SA or a messy trial

Given the SA emphasised the Socialist and worker bit of NSDAP over the national Roehm if he succeeds in the first few hours is in for a while and will almost certainly do two things.

Replace the Army with the the SA. There is no room for compromise there.

Undertake the second revolution against the Reaktion - the conservative forces within Germany.

How successful he would be is a moot point but there are not that many capitalists and right wingers you need to kick to death to make the point.

Wild card on this would be if the Stahlhelm types split from the SA

I think this would shape up to a civil war the SA would most likely win, or a developing basket case of a state trying to emulate the USSR as a focus for revolutionary socialist feeling with the right looking more to Mussolini as a guide.

 

[Cryptic]

I could see a right-wing junta lusting after the Sudentland and Danzig/Silesia, but would they be willing take the risks and go for those regions? My understanding is that many in Hitler's regime thought his efforts were too risky.

I think the average German would support military action to regain Danzig, the surrounding areas and especially the Sudenltland. There had been some massacares of ethnic Germans by Czech militants following WWI. Because of these massacares, the local German population strongly favored unification with Germany. This is contrast to the far more apathetic German populations of Romania, Serbia etc.

 

[Hörnla]

The degree in which Germans would support a war highly depended on whether it's 1-on-1 or another Great War.

 

[yulzari]

But it's like a national treasure to us! You may take away the Brandenburg Gate or the Cologne Cathedral, but don't take away our 'ß'!

Good for you!
Bloody French took away our þ.

(For the benefit of benighted Americans, Google 'thorn letter).