WI: Reagan was never elected?

[Romantic Nihilist]

How would the US be affected if Reagan never won the 1980 Election?

Think what would happen in the absence of Reaganomics? Would this affect the culture of yuppies? Also, the anti-communist sentiments that struck an easy balance with the USSR; how would this have played out had someone else took office? (Carter or Kennedy?).

Also think:

• No invasion of Grenada?
• No Iran/Contra Affair?
• How would this change the 90's?

 

[Whanztastic]

How would the US be affected if Reagan never won the 1980 Election?

Think what would happen in the absence of Reaganomics? Would this affect the culture of yuppies? Also, the anti-communist sentiments that struck an easy balance with the USSR; how would this have played out had someone else took office? (Carter or Kennedy?).

Also think:

• No invasion of Grenada?
• No Iran/Contra Affair?
• How would this change the 90's?

1. Depends who wins instead, Dem or GOP?
2. Supply-side would be around, but expect even more balanced budget rumbling.
3. Depends who is elected instead.
4. Depends
5. New affairs likely pop up, but perhaps not as bad as Iran/Contra. Maybe people have more faith in the government a bit earlier than the 90s love affair with White House/political movies and TV shows.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

The big change from no Reagan election (assuming no similar conservative elected shortly thereafter) is that Fusionist Conservatism doesn't see a candidate elected prior to the end of the Cold War -- and if communism is no longer around as a world power to bind the philosophies of "rollback" foreign policy, laizze-faire economic policy, and traditionalist social policy, then, also absent a Reagan icon to emulate, no candidate of similar stripes is likely to get elected. Conservatism in America, then, will once again evolve into something else.

 

[Andrew T]

In writing you-know-what, I've come to realize that in a very real way, just about everything in the 1980s was defined by its relationship to Ronald Reagan. Without him, I think almost everything about the 1980s would be different. Music, certainly -- from pop (the Material Girl?) to metal (conspicuous excess) to mainstream rock (Bruce Springsteen, Phil Collins, John Cougar Mellencamp, and dare I say it, Don Henley).

TV and movies would be vastly different; without Reagan to drive home the reality of the Cold War every single day, obviously you wouldn't have schlock like Red Dawn and The Day After (nor the works made as a response), but you'd also miss out on WarGames, on Top Gun, the Rambo movies, Rocky IV (at least), and so on. And without yuppie culture, you miss out on not only Wall Street and Trading Places, but probably Risky Business as well.

(Maybe Tom Cruise should send the Reagan family a thank-you note?)

The War on Drugs looks a hell of a lot different without Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" -- which, in turn, undoes an awful lot of Very Special Episodes of some of our favorite TV shows. Which, by the way, won't include Family Ties. Hell, the non-war on cigarettes almost certainly doesn't occur without C. Everett Koop, so perhaps we'd all be pack-a-day smokers today.

That's drugs and rock 'n roll, so what about sex? Well, you wouldn't have the Meese Commission Report on Pornography and the rise of the new Christian right; that means you can still buy Playboy in the 7-11 in an alternate 1984, and albums won't come with those stupid warning labels.

I could go on, because I really think everything would be different without Reagan. It's what makes me think Barack Obama reads alternate history when he said:

I do think that, for example, the 1980 election was different. I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that, you know, Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not.

He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like, you know, with all the excesses of the 60s and the 70s, and government had grown and grown, but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people just tapped into -- he tapped into what people were already feeling, which was, we want clarity, we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.

How this got spun as "Obama is praising Reagan and dissing Clinton" is sort of beyond me, but he's definitely right.

 

[Plumber]

Aside from the obvious ones of there being no popular Republican President in modern times, lessened conservatism, deregulation, Christian Right, etc. the Reagan Administration created the War on Drugs as we know it. Without the New Jim Crow, America is infinitely better off, as the trend towards the closing of prisons, rehabilitation, decriminalization and legalization are not suddenly and sharply reversed.

 

[Robert]

The perception of Communism as an inevitably would remain.

The massive grown in income tax rates would continue.

Unemployment would have risen to at least 30 percent by the end of the 1980s.

Inflation would be considered "the new normal", making the U.S. dollar worthless.

The U.S. would become a second rate power as defense cutbacks would leave us with no conventional military force to speak of.

Stealth technology and cruise missiles would not exist.

The computer revolution would never come about as companies would have no money to bet on new technology.

 

[Kulkasha]

The perception of Communism as an inevitably would remain.

The massive grown in income tax rates would continue.

Unemployment would have risen to at least 30 percent by the end of the 1980s.

Inflation would be considered "the new normal", making the U.S. dollar worthless.

The U.S. would become a second rate power as defense cutbacks would leave us with no conventional military force to speak of.

Stealth technology and cruise missiles would not exist.

The computer revolution would never come about as companies would have no money to bet on new technology.

That's taking it to the extreme. Especially the Communism thing - by 1980 the Soviet Union had severe internal issues that, untreated, would have led to either collapse or reform of some sort, irregardless of the catalyst provided by Reagan's policies. Who knows, without the rapport established between Reagan and Gorbachev, the Soviet collapse could have been a lot worse.

 

[hcallega]

What's particularly interesting to think about is who would be the atlernative to Reagan? Because this scenario is not simply the absence of Reagan in a vacuum. It's the replacement of Reagan with someone else.

 

[Andrew T]

The perception of Communism as an inevitably would remain.

The massive grown in income tax rates would continue.

Unemployment would have risen to at least 30 percent by the end of the 1980s.

Inflation would be considered "the new normal", making the U.S. dollar worthless.

The U.S. would become a second rate power as defense cutbacks would leave us with no conventional military force to speak of.

Stealth technology and cruise missiles would not exist.

I'm glad that someone else recognizes that the United States was on an inevitable trajectory in which it absolutely would have become the next Weimar Republic had not Ronald Reagan -- and only Ronald Reagan -- been elected President in 1980. Yes, that's right; if one of those crazy socialists like Howard Baker or Bob Dole or Phil Crane had managed to win the Republican primaries, the entire U.S. would have lost running water by 1984.

The computer revolution would never come about as companies would have no money to bet on new technology.

Actually, I think this is my favorite bit, because (obviously!) without Ronald Reagan as President, time-travelling-ninjas would have gone back to 1970 and assassinated Steve Wozniak, Steve Jobs, Nolan Bushnell, Jack Tramiel and the entire engineering departments at Texas Instruments and Tandy-Radio Shack, thus retroactively purging all of those great 1970s computers out of existence.

 

[DTanza]

What's particularly interesting to think about is who would be the atlernative to Reagan? Because this scenario is not simply the absence of Reagan in a vacuum. It's the replacement of Reagan with someone else.

George H.W. Bush? Gerald Ford? Bob Dole?

 

[Sicarius]

That's drugs and rock 'n roll, so what about sex? Well, you wouldn't have the Meese Commission Report on Pornography and the rise of the new Christian right; that means you can still buy Playboy in the 7-11 in an alternate 1984, and albums won't come with those stupid warning labels.

Let's not forget how Reagan ignored AIDS and held back the rest of the administration, as well. With a President who actually cares that tens of thousands of Americans are dying, the whole face of public health and the GLBT movement is changed. Not to mention the effects on culture - Freddie Mercury, Klaus Nomi, Isaac Asimov possibly still running around, among others.

Edit: Gorbachev and his advisers also said that Reagan's saber rattling, Evil Empire schtick united and empowered Soviet hardliner conservatives who were against Gorby's proposals to cut military spending. Without Reagan, possibly greater thaw in the US Soviet relationship, or maybe even earlier collapse of the USSR

 

[burtledog]

W/o Reagan...a pacified Astan. $5 a gallon gas. No funds for the information explosion. No reason for Gorbachev to even work his way to the top.as the old hardliners would have been more successful. The thaw working largely to our and Eastern Europes advantage was not possible without showing the USSR they could not succeed either militarily or economically.
With a new Carter admin or a moderate Republican, It would be a bleak 80's. The 90's would look like the late 2010's and 2020's.

 

[freethinker]

W/o Reagan...a pacified Astan. $5 a gallon gas. No funds for the information explosion. No reason for Gorbachev to even work his way to the top.as the old hardliners would have been more successful. The thaw working largely to our and Eastern Europes advantage was not possible without showing the USSR they could not succeed either militarily or economically.
With a new Carter admin or a moderate Republican, It would be a bleak 80's. The 90's would look like the late 2010's and 2020's.

Wow an actual reganite on our forum

I dont know where to start my friend..

 

[freethinker]

Keynesian Economics would still be the chief school but would still see more opposition form Supply side Opposition. Expect European Social Democrats to be more successful in the 90's and early 2000's

Globalization will not occur as quickly outsourcing will be less prevalent perhaps even curtailed.

There is a great likely hood that present society in America will be more concerned environment and there may be a stigma attached to fossil fuels, possibly


No Iran Contras
Most likely no invasion of Grendea
Possibly a more stable Afghanistan where the Talabian never takes over the government

A better relation with Soviet Union, the USSR might possibly survive if the United States is less aggressive.

 

[Paul V McNutt]

The best way to get rid of the Reagan presidency is to have Ford win in 1976. In 1980, Republican nominee Reagan is tied to the president in a time of a bad economy and a hostage crisis. tThe runner up way is to have Reagan win the 1976 nomination and lose the general election.

 

[freethinker]

The best way to get rid of the Reagan presidency is to have Ford win in 1976. In 1980, Republican nominee Reagan is tied to the president in a time of a bad economy and a hostage crisis. tThe runner up way is to have Reagan win the 1976 nomination and lose the general election.

Right- By 1977 the great problems that mark the term like the energy crises and peak oil were already set to happen. Most likely the Iranian revolution will occur no matter who is president

By 1980 the American People will be utterly spend of twelve mostly troublesome years of Republican Administration

 

[The Kiat]

The USSR might still be around today. I think part of what caused their collapse was them trying to keep up with Reagan's defense budget ideas. The Cold War as a whole? Maybe not. Eastern Europe was teetering on economic ruin even without Ronnie around.

 

[Rex Mundi]

I'm glad that someone else recognizes that the United States was on an inevitable trajectory in which it absolutely would have become the next Weimar Republic had not Ronald Reagan -- and only Ronald Reagan -- been elected President in 1980. Yes, that's right; if one of those crazy socialists like Howard Baker or Bob Dole or Phil Crane had managed to win the Republican primaries, the entire U.S. would have lost running water by 1984.



Actually, I think this is my favorite bit, because (obviously!) without Ronald Reagan as President, time-travelling-ninjas would have gone back to 1970 and assassinated Steve Wozniak, Steve Jobs, Nolan Bushnell, Jack Tramiel and the entire engineering departments at Texas Instruments and Tandy-Radio Shack, thus retroactively purging all of those great 1970s computers out of existence.

I think he's already being sarcastic.

 

[Gunnar420]

How would the US be affected if Reagan never won the 1980 Election?

Think what would happen in the absence of Reaganomics? Would this affect the culture of yuppies? Also, the anti-communist sentiments that struck an easy balance with the USSR; how would this have played out had someone else took office? (Carter or Kennedy?).

Also think:

• No invasion of Grenada?
• No Iran/Contra Affair?
• How would this change the 90's?

Bishop was my home boy. Coard was a tyrannical Stalin-worshipping bastard who deserved far worse than regime change, but the Contras and the Mujahideen can rot in Hell with Reagan and his "liberal" buddy Wilson.

 

[Blair]

I hope we can establish that the Fall of the Soviet Union at this point was almost inevitable. Nothing Reagan did really hastened the demise of the SU, a radically different approach from the ATL POTUS might slightly alter the form or time in which the SU collapses but not much more. Heck even I doubt Lenin himself punching his way out of the glass encasing him and taking over the country in 1980 would save the SU at that point. Many of the major butterflies will be found in America proper, considerably less will be found abroad.