WI: Queen Victoria lives 20 years longer

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by fluttersky, Oct 10, 2019.

  1. fluttersky ~ᴍeʀmᴀiᴅ iɴ a seᴀ oғ aɴoᴍiᴇ~

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    Imagine Queen Victoria has significantly better luck with her health, and instead of dying in January 1901 at age 81, she dies in January 1921 at age 101. (the same age that OTL's Queen Mother died at). Her reign lasts a total of 83 years. Following her death, she's succeeded by her grandson, King George V.

    What I wonder is, how would this longer reign of Queen Victoria affect the development of the world, both culturally and politically? Would World War 1 be avoided, with the "grandmother of Europe" still on the throne in the UK?
     
  2. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

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    Does she keep her mind or is the British Empire saddled with a senile monarch? If I recall the Kaiser was very close to Victoria, that could make a difference in 1914.
     
  3. Gavp Member

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    Personally dont see german british rivalry being anywhere near as bad, the kaiser adored her, weather than means britain and germany are allies or not or ww1 is avoided its hard to tell.
     
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  4. fluttersky ~ᴍeʀmᴀiᴅ iɴ a seᴀ oғ aɴoᴍiᴇ~

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    She keeps mostly sane, similar to her state of health in the OTL 1890s, I guess.
     
  5. GSD310 Well-Known Member

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    It changes the dynamics certainly and brings up some questions:

    How would Franz Ferdinand’s murder will be handled with a Germany where Wilhelm is not willing to risk war with a Britain with Victoria at the helm? Does Victoria try to mediate?

    What happens after Victoria dies? Would Wilhelm start to become hostile towards Britain or would George V be able to manage him?

    If World War I is delayed until the 20s as a result of Victoria living longer, how would a World War I in the 20s be different?
     
  6. Gavp Member

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    Butterflies will change everything though, britian could be on the german side for a start? Or if ww1 is delayed until the 20s how is russia looking then? And for that matter austria-hungary?
     
  7. pjmidd Well-Known Member

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    Victoria living means better German relations but worse with France. Politically internally not a lot different , Victoria due to age would probably be similar to OTL Edward ( due to inclination on his part ) in this period, hands off but a dignified figurehead, rallying and calming. However externally the tensions in Europe are still there , without as strong a Entente they might be muted ( the French probably looking to improve with Italy if Britain is more aloof ). So 1914 probably ends with Austria accepting Serbia's final offer due to the Kaiser being swayed by his Grandmother and not giving a blank check.

    Going forward Austro-Hungary is still going to have the issue with its Slavic population feeling 2nd class and Russia will of course have an idiot in charge. So more riots/unstability in both but Russia could be partly stabilized as the benefits of Industrialization start to accelerate. We still have the Ottomans going beyond the Pale with Genocide/massacres of non Muslims, Germany wanting more space, Japan wanting to be seen as an equal, the Balkans being the Balkans and a host of other issues. Its up in the air on if you would get a series of small, short ( both relative ) wars letting the pressure out gradually or a big all encompassing conflict blowing up. Britain being more neutral might be able to stop things going boom but the money is on a European war with a stronger Russia compensating for a Britain that probably stays out.
     
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  8. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

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    What happens in Russia when Alexi dies though? It's going to take even more of the gloss off the Tsar as a sign of God's disfavour.
     
  9. pjmidd Well-Known Member

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    Well they already knew he was likely to die, it seems likely it would be not so much a shock. Then depends on who gets the succession, do the government insist on a Tsar or will his eldest daughter get the job ( OTL it went to Michael , not that it mattered )
     
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  10. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

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    That might be true of the upper nobility, but how much did the general population know?
     
  11. ShortsBelfast Events, dear boy, events

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    Russia has had the direct heir to the throne die a couple of times before. The Russians general population were religiously observant pre 1914 not obsessed fanatics
     
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  12. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying they were, but they were mostly poorly educated peasants and industrial workers and absolute monarchs tend to play up on their being God's chosen leaders of their nations.
     
  13. cjc Well-Known Member

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    Well the Anglo French reprocment had a surprising amount to do whith Edward being a Francophile, mainly by showing France a English leader they could like and show England was determined to make the entont work. Compared to victoria who was natorius in France for being much closer to get German roots, especaly after the Franco Prussian war. All in all even if the German Anglo navel arms race dose start up(unlikely whith William 2 having much more respect for the queen then any of here descendants) then an Anglo French rapprochement is still going to be a much more unlikely, if not impossible.
     
  14. ert44444 Well-Known Member

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    How much would this actually change British policy? I know there would be some change due to butterflies and Victoria’s influence but would there really be that much change as it’s the elected politicians who make the decisions not the monarchy. I always thought it was the politicians who made the reapproachment with France possible and Edward was just the face of it.

    Maybe Germanys approach changes due to have the Grandmother of the Kaiser in Britain on the throne rather than his cousin. Would Wilhelm attempt a naval arms race here? If so then we may still see a souring of relations.
     
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  15. Coulsdon Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Is it difficult not to over-personalise relations between the Great Powers; in the end interests, not family squabbles, led to the Great War. Wilhelm couldn't change the war plan, Nicholas was trapped by mobilisation schedules, while George had no say at all in the decision by Britain to declare war.

    That said, there was undoubtedly a froideur in relations between Wilhelm and Bertie that started well before the latter became Edward VII. Although you can perhaps trace the beginnings of the naval arms race to yacht racing at Cowes, this began while Victoria was still alive. Even if the rift between Bertie & Wilhelm is slowed by the former never being ascending to the throne, there are other familial tensions, like the treatment of the Dowager Empress Frederick, Bertie's sister Victoria, by her son after the death of Frederick III. As Victoria (the elder) grows older her grip & influence on personal affairs will decline.

    One big butterfly is how Victoria would deal with the Liberal government (if it is elected in 1906, which still seems very likely) and its battle with the House of Lords. Edward VII & George V in the end submitted to allowing a prompt creation of peers to force through the Parliament Act, even if both requested general elections first. It is difficult to see a Victoria who has avoided senility agreeing to such a radical proposal, but if she has started to lose her marbles Asquith may actually find it easier to extort this promise. But get the Liberals out of power around 1910 and perhaps replaced by a Unionist government leads to prospects of major changes to both British domestic & foreign policy.
     
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  16. 33k7 Well-Known Member

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    as long as Queen Victoria lives the odds that World War 1 happens are slim to none Kaiser Wilhelm loves his grandmother and she really does care for him as well German and British relations will be good as long as she lives. I agree with Coulsdon Eagle about the act of parliament.

    I do disagree with him though on the fact that Queen Victoria would lose power as she gets older that is not going to happen every year longer she rules Britain the more power she will have over the British people if she comes out against something Parliament is doing you can bet a lot of people will take her side even if they don't agree with her just because she is there Queen especially if she is still mentally sound.
     
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  17. 1940LaSalle Member

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    Hold it: the Anglo-German naval race was already in progress before Victoria died. See, for example, the accounts in Dreadnought or Castles of Steel.
     
  18. cjc Well-Known Member

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    No? Dreadnount describes some of the issues during Victoria's rain that lead to the arms race but it dint start untill after she died. Besides that wasn't even my main argument there.
     
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  19. Coulsdon Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Many believe the start of the naval arms race began with the passing of the German First Naval Law in 1898 - before Victoria died - with a dash of the Jameson Raid (1895) and the Second Boer War which began in 1899.
     
  20. cjc Well-Known Member

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    Well possibly I suppose? The first navel law wasn't a big deal in brition thoe, and Briton dint start having it's navel building revolve around Germany u ntill the second navel bill thoe becuse that actually wored British politicians, I never seen anything that shows Briton being overly considered over the first navel bill, it's the second and third that seems much more likely to me.