WI: No schism, Luther not considered a heretic but his reform proposals are accepted

[Sang]

The title says all.
Luther never wanted to form his own church and make a schism.
Let's say that Luther's ideas aren't considered heretical, and Rome reforms itself instead of denouncing Luther, therefore splitting the previously Western Christianity into the conservative Roman Catholicism and the newly formed Protestantism.

OR, let's say that Luther isn't that radical, and manages to reach an agreement with the Pope, while Calvin remains heavily anti-papal...

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Calvin was more radical, as others. So... clashes will ensues...

 

[Ryan the Rebel]

Biggest thing I can think of is that this POD has a good chance of completely butterflying away the 30 Years War and all the nastiness that entailed. No 30 Years War and you've unleashed a Rhode Island sized Lepidoptera

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Biggest thing I can think of is that this POD has a good chance of completely butterflying away the 30 Years War and all the nastiness that entailed. No 30 Years War and you've unleashed a Rhode Island sized Lepidoptera

Again, Luther was ONE of the figures.. not all. Maybe Calvin will take hold of a coalition of 'protesters', and some alternate form of this war would happened... perhaps worse on some aspects; Luther being called The Prostitute of Rome, by example...

 

[Sang]

Welll, but having Martin to convince the Pope about the corruption within the Church, and making he and the Pope reach an agreement would end up reforming the Catholic Church (the exact thing that Luther wanted, instead of a schism), making the Protestant Reformation unnecessary.

But yeah, it could backfire as well, as The Ubbergeek said, Luther might be called The Prostitute of Rome (or something like that) by the more Radical Reformers.

 

[pvicente]

Welll, but having Martin to convince the Pope about the corruption within the Church, and making he and the Pope reach an agreement would end up reforming the Catholic Church (the exact thing that Luther wanted, instead of a schism), making the Protestant Reformation unnecessary.

But yeah, it could backfire as well, as The Ubbergeek said, Luther might be called The Prostitute of Rome (or something like that) by the more Radical Reformers.

Maybe, there would be less radicals since people "on the fence" would be more inclined to go with the Pope.

Especially if the Pope goes with a "reform and back to basics" doctrine (that could be attractive to him, a chance to leave his mark on history, to get himself known as a hero and get rid of pesky cardinals and special interests and get power of his own). So when Calvin or so starts to talk about reform and values people might think "Hm, isn't the Pope trying to do that already?".

Actually, trouble might come from the opposite direction, cardinals with a stake on a the old system that would like a less troublesome Pope, but that might be very convenient for the reformer Pope, by attacking them he gets rid of adversaries and has scapegoats for the corruption problems at the same time, very nice for him.

 

[ChucK Y]

Calvin was 8 years old in 1517; he was a leader in the second generation of the Reformation. He grew up in the midst of the Reformation. If he grew up in a church that was reforming itself, his outlook would have been different. Contemporaries of Luther, such as Zwingli, would have been important in determining whether the was a Reformation.

 

[HistorianofAlt]

Part of the problem with this is that Luther's 'reforms' were more than just attacks on the corruption of the Papacy. He was pushing several doctrinal issues that clashed with established teaching. By scripture alone, I can't remember the Latin term, is an example.

 

[Sam R.]

The reformation will be another failed populist church reform movement and another failed intellectual theology movement. More burnings, more wars on the people, fewer wars between states, another Church Reform crisis with theological roots within 50–100 years time.

yours,
Sam R.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

By scripture alone, I can't remember the Latin term, is an example.

Sole fide, Sola gratia, Sola scriptura.
By faith alone, by grace alone, by scripture alone.
(from memory, might be slightly faulty)