WI: no partition of India

What if India had remained united after independence in 1947 instead of being divided into two countries? What would be the impact on Asia and the world as a whole? How would India be different from OTL?
I assume that whitout the partition, there would be no mass population transfers causing hundreds of thousands of dead like OTL. I think the unity of Hindus and Muslims could have made a good example of how two different communities can live together. However, I'm also wondering how long such a country would have lasted and if there would have been some regions pushing for independence.
 
I think that given the hatred between the Muslims and Hindus you’d have a war sooner or later. Maybe you even get help from Arab countries if there is a way to get such a thing done. Sadly, some regions might even see a kind of “ethnic cleansing” in certain areas.
 
I think that given the hatred between the Muslims and Hindus you’d have a war sooner or later. Maybe you even get help from Arab countries if there is a way to get such a thing done. Sadly, some regions might even see a kind of “ethnic cleansing” in certain areas.
The impression I get is that much of that hatred and mistrust only really surfaced in the few post-WWII years leading up to Partition, and in the aftermath of it (not saying that there wasn't some lurking beneath the surface - but it was by no means universal across the Raj).
Not everyone subscribed to Jinnah's "Two Nations" thesis... even among Muslims there was some vehement opposition to the notion of partition.
 
I assume that whitout the partition, there would be no mass population transfers causing hundreds of thousands of dead like OTL.
Population transfers, no; hundreds of thousands of deaths, yes (unless of course you have millions of deaths instead).

People didn't massacre each other because a new political border had been created, they did so because they hated each other, and the end of British rule gave them an opportunity to act upon their hatred. A united India would just have given the Hindus more victims to oppress.
 

Monk78

Kicked
Afghans will raise the Durand line issue again , china the Kashmir and himalaya border
Probably India will still have nonaligned status
 
Afghans will raise the Durand line issue again , china the Kashmir and himalaya border
Probably India will still have nonaligned status
It will raise it no doubt but would be even more unsuccessful, If in OTL they are not able to overwhelm Pakistan and take it over, especially after 1971 war where Pakistan was beaten and broken in two, they sure as hell could not take out a United Stable India
 

David Flin

Gone Fishin'
I assume that whitout the partition, there would be no mass population transfers causing hundreds of thousands of dead like OTL. I think the unity of Hindus and Muslims could have made a good example of how two different communities can live together. However, I'm also wondering how long such a country would have lasted and if there would have been some regions pushing for independence.

Given that the Hindus and Muslims were already fighting and killing and ethnically cleansing before hand, I think the hope of two different communities living together is - unlikely.
 
Given that India today has 200 million Muslims without collapse into civil war (that is not to say there are not severe issues) I do not think it inconceivable a United India can exist. You need only have the secular current for independence come to leading prominence around figures like Bhagat Singh, for example.

It's hard, but doable.
 

Monk78

Kicked
Given that the Hindus and Muslims were already fighting and killing and ethnically cleansing before hand, I think the hope of two different communities living together is - unlikely.
Most violence around that time happened in states that were being divided by British or princely states that had to choose between the two states
In other states the violence was never that extreme.
 
India will have to be more decentralized that OTL, so large states like Bengal and Punjab don't use their influence in parliament to take advantage of their smaller neighbors.
 

prani

Banned
People didn't massacre each other because a new political border had been created, they did so because they hated each other, and the end of British rule gave them an opportunity to act upon their hatred
There was nothing wrong with the Partition of the country, the way it was done was a disaster. You could have an organized population transfer of people who actually wanted to move and there was a lot of people who wanted to move. There was a complete break down of law and order.
. A united India would just have given the Hindus more victims to oppress.
This is just pure laziness in analysis, oppress? how? In United provinces Muslims formed 14 percent of the population but 50 percent of it's police force was Muslim, a huge portion of the Military was Muslim, remember a disproportional number of troops opted to go to Pakistan. The whole Marshal race thing did put, certain Muslim communities, not all since all Muslims in south Asia are the same some fared well under the british rule some did not, on an advantage. The same can be said of the civil bureaucracy, certain communities were disproportionally represented which is why here in India we have a programme of affirmative action so as to ensure this crap does not repeat again and in the army there was forced integration of the army and the community based regiments now a days are just name sake ,basically the concept of Marshal race in India was destroyed. British did divide and rule not only between religions but within castes, religion and ethnicity.

So explain to me, how in a united India would Muslims be oppressed? they had significant representation in the military and police and even the bureaucracy. This is just a very lazy analysis. In fact partition destroyed the Muslim communities in south asia as their accumulated social and economic capital was split between two and later three countries. The Hindu communities on the other hand consolidated in what is today India. Which is why partition was the worst thing that happened to the Muslims in the long run. Which is why south Indian Muslims are way better off than their north Indian counterparts because they did not have their communities ripped in to two or three parts.

India will have to be more decentralized that OTL, so large states like Bengal and Punjab don't use their influence in parliament to take advantage of their smaller neighbors
You need to change the nature of the Indian Independence movement lead by the congress. All factions of the congress be it may secular or Hindu right or Socialist or Capitalist or centrist or liberal or conservative, did agree on how India should be run, as a centralized state with states given significant regional autonomy within a framework put forth by a strong federal government. They were inspired by a very colonial notion that a divided Hindu India was weak and thus fell prey to foreign invasion so the solution was a centralized state like the Mauryas, the one Indian state that defeated the Greco-Iranian empire in the west.

You had partition because you had Bengali, Sindhi and Panjabi elites complaining about the program of the congress and it is not a surprise that it was in those states that congress had the least support and Muslim minorities in other Indian states did oppose a strong federal government. This fear was embodied in the Pakistan resolution or the Lahore resolution and quote:

That geographically contiguous units are demarcated regions which should be constituted, with such territorial readjustments as may be necessary that the areas in which the Muslims are numerically in a majority as in the North Western and Eastern Zones of (British) India should be grouped to constitute ‘independent states’ in which the constituent units should be autonomous and sovereign.

Look at the language, we often talk about religion but we do not talk about as to how the congress's desire for a strong central government was causing tension in the minds of the elites in these provinces that later became Pakistan, religion is just half the picture. of course their fears ended being misplaced as India went from being a hyper centralized state at it's creation to a decentralized federation now a days with very strong cultural autonomy to its different people and Pakistan went the opposite route for a while.

Most violence around that time happened in states that were being divided by British or princely states that had to choose between the two states
In other states the violence was never that extreme.
true, you could say it was non existent.
Given that India today has 200 million Muslims without collapse into civil war (that is not to say there are not severe issues) I do not think it inconceivable a United India can exist. You need only have the secular current for independence come to leading prominence around figures like Bhagat Singh, for example.

It's hard, but doable.
communist India? Bhagat singh was a staunch communist, I don't know if that would be a good Idea.
Given that the Hindus and Muslims were already fighting and killing and ethnically cleansing before hand, I think the hope of two different communities living together is - unlikely.
That is blowing it a bit out of proportion. Riots? Sure....Lynching? .....sure... but ethnic cleansing? that's a strong word, i mean I am not saying Hindus and Muslims lived peacefully, they lived separately, an average Hindu would go his entire life without meeting a Muslim more than 10 or 15 times, and all of those encounters would be with the authorities and same goes for Muslims. Which is why you did not have cleansing for about 300 years, since the mughals collapsed.

I am pretty sad that nobody mentioned separate electorate! like that seriously divided the leaders of both communities and disincentivized the political leaders of both communities from forming common grounds. Congress leaders were apathetic to the demands and fears of the Muslim community and Muslim leaders played to the fears of being a minority in a Hindu dominated India. Again the blame lies in the hands of the british, they did light the explosive, not saying the explosives wasn't there in the first place, they did light it though.
 

David Flin

Gone Fishin'
That is blowing it a bit out of proportion. Riots? Sure....Lynching? .....sure... but ethnic cleansing? that's a strong word, i mean I am not saying Hindus and Muslims lived peacefully, they lived separately, an average Hindu would go his entire life without meeting a Muslim more than 10 or 15 times, and all of those encounters would be with the authorities and same goes for Muslims. Which is why you did not have cleansing for about 300 years, since the mughals collapsed.

I spent a fair amount of time in what was East Pakistan when I arrived and Bangladesh when I left. I spoke with a fair number of the older locals who had lived through the pre-Partition days, and they were - uniformly and totally - of the view that there was indeed violence done on a large-scale. They said that it hadn't been as bad as what the Pakistan Army had been engaged in during the Independence struggle (which I witnessed and was unquestionably on a scale that could be called Very Bad), but that what happened between the end of WW2 and Partition was pretty similar to what happened during Partition.

I grant you I don't have first-hand knowledge on the mid 1940s there, but I did speak with a lot of people who did.
 

prani

Banned
I spent a fair amount of time in what was East Pakistan when I arrived and Bangladesh when I left. I spoke with a fair number of the older locals who had lived through the pre-Partition days, and they were - uniformly and totally - of the view that there was indeed violence done on a large-scale. They said that it hadn't been as bad as what the Pakistan Army had been engaged in during the Independence struggle (which I witnessed and was unquestionably on a scale that could be called Very Bad), but that what happened between the end of WW2 and Partition was pretty similar to what happened during Partition.

I grant you I don't have first-hand knowledge on the mid 1940s there, but I did speak with a lot of people who did.
Yes you had direct action day and such but if you ask them on situation before the 1930s. Because as a Indian i see partition as a long drawn out process not just the events around 1947 which is just the finale.
 
What would the foreign policy of such a United/Non-Partitioned India look like and how would it compare to OTL India in terms of their role in the Cold War?
 

David Flin

Gone Fishin'
Yes you had direct action day and such but if you ask them on situation before the 1930s. Because as a Indian i see partition as a long drawn out process not just the events around 1947 which is just the finale.

I specifically said from the end of WW2. Prior to WW2, the very fact of Independence, never mind the form it took, wasn't set in stone.

but that what happened between the end of WW2 and Partition was pretty similar to what happened during Partition.

During WW2, the situation was complicated by the very fact of the war.

Post WW2 to Independence and Partition, a couple of years, was precisely the period I was talking of. Or, more specifically, the people I spoke to.

I'd prefer it if you referred to what I wrote rather than interpreting in a very creative but inaccurate way what you'd rather I'd said.
 

prani

Banned
I specifically said from the end of WW2. Prior to WW2, the very fact of Independence, never mind the form it took, wasn't set in stone.
what about the violence that attended the 1st partition of Bengal back in 1905? or the mopilla revolt as part of the Khalifat movement, my point stands, the violence that was witnessed during the partition was cleansing but whatever happened before paled in comparison. For example back in 1880s there was already dispute about the Babri Masjid, and there was riots over it but was it a cleansing? certainly not. 1 million people died and 14 million people were displaced in matter of few months, during partition, now that sort of violence is cleansing, of course you have people who create a storm in the tea cup and say every riot was as brutal as the partition but that is just a insult to the victims of it. It is a question of degree.

But even then events prior to 1947 from the end of WW2, the level of violence was not really the same as the events surrounding the transfer of power and withdrawal of the british power in India, because the stats just does not bear that. Cause you did not have millions of people dying or 10s of millions leaving their homes prior to the events of transfer of power
 
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prani

Banned
I'd prefer it if you referred to what I wrote rather than interpreting in a very creative but inaccurate way what you'd rather I'd said.
And i would prefer if you do the same,
Given that the Hindus and Muslims were already fighting and killing and ethnically cleansing before hand, I think the hope of two different communities living together is - unlikely.
Cause what you said here, doesn't really tell about when, now does it? from a plain reading kinda painting the whole relationship between two communities in a single broad stroke? and it is when i questioned it, did you bother to clarify it, saying it was post world war 2 to partition.

but that what happened between the end of WW2 and Partition was pretty similar to what happened during Partition.
Like what does this even mean? direct action day was DIRECTLY related to the partition, not events preceding it. What you are talking about the events surrounding the transfer of power which is also part of the partition process.
 

prani

Banned
What if India had remained united after independence in 1947 instead of being divided into two countries? What would be the impact on Asia and the world as a whole? How would India be different from OTL?
I assume that whitout the partition, there would be no mass population transfers causing hundreds of thousands of dead like OTL. I think the unity of Hindus and Muslims could have made a good example of how two different communities can live together. However, I'm also wondering how long such a country would have lasted and if there would have been some regions pushing for independence.
You could end up in a situation smiliar to how Canada is now? like the relationship between Quebec and rest of Canada, so you could have Indian federation similar to Canadian confederation, with relationship between Hindus and Muslims being the same as relationship between the Anglo Canadians and the French Canadians, just much much much worse and Muslim majority provinces/states routinely holing non binding referendums on independence but nothing really happens.

Or You could end up in a situation like Yugoslavia

or nothing really changes and united India is in a similar position to the of modern day India except more populated and more poor, yes that is possible.

In short pretty hard to say
 
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