Accurateworldwar
Banned
What would have happened if Gerald Ford didn't pardon Richard Nixon? What would happen to Nixon? Could Ford have been re-elected?
WI: No Pardon
- Thread starter Accurateworldwar
- Start date
GeographyDude
Gone Fishin'
And we have almost a mirror image. Ford is blamed for 1979 and '80 stagflation, and for Iran.
The 1980s are a Democratic decade.
The 1980s are a Democratic decade.
probably, but the Democrat elected is going to have to be a fairly center one; the mood of the nation after the debacles of the hostage crisis, the oil embargo, and the Russian invasion of Afghanistan was 'build up the military, make us stronger, take on a world that just got a lot harsher to us'... a far left winger ain't going to cut it...
Driftless
Donor
Ford burned a lot of good will across the political spectrum with the pardon of Nixon. Till then, he was largely viewed as an honorable, decent man who was trying to do the right thing in a tight spot, regardless of how you viewed his political leanings. The pardon upset many of us who wanted Nixon's hide nailed to the wall of the Supreme Court doors.... In hindsight(IMHO), Ford did the honorable, decent thing and took every one off the hook - except for himself. It was like "Old Yeller" shooting himself.
No pardon, Ford gets re-elected. After that......
No pardon, Ford gets re-elected. After that......
I'm less convinced it was the decent thing, but there are two very plausible reasons why he did it, both of which (if we take the POD and no pardon happens) understandably influenced Ford's thinking. One was Nixon's health: it was to some degree overblown by some folks in the press and politics who were still defending Nixon even after his resignation, but he had a medically serious bout of phlebitis in the autumn of 1974, which on top of his emotional breakdown at the time (I still suspect Nixon suffered some sort of diagnosable anxiety disorder, it explains the variations of intensity in his paranoia and his chronic issues with insomnia which, like any good man in a grey flannel suit, he self-medicated with alcohol), left him bedridden and could in theory have resulted in fatal blood clots. Moving in Republican circles as Ford naturally did, there was a temporary bout of concern at the time that Watergate was physically going to kill Nixon. The other thing was a groupthink that built up very quickly in Ford's administration that if they did not pardon Nixon Ford's presidency would never get out from under the news coverage of the attempts to prosecute Nixon (and, since there are at least a couple of pieces of key evidence that did not come to light for years yet at that point, the actual ability to provide evidence that would directly condemn and convict Nixon in a court of law were more scanty than we lefties like to hope, so it would've been long and drawn out.) Also a couple of Ford's key advisors suggested that a pardon implied guilt, so they could indeed "pardon and move on." Of course it had the opposite effect: and American public opinion was notably fickle and easily angered during the Seventies, you see it not just as Nixon's favorables cratered due to Watergate, but with Ford and Carter too where they would be buoyed up for periods and then come crashing down much faster than presidents during other times, as though the US public were a spurned and disappointed lover. Hard time to have to sit in that chair. If he doesn't pardon, then he has to answer for any health issues wrt Nixon, and the right comes at him about it in '76 (so Reagan has a left hook to go with his right jab about "not giving back our [Panama] Canal"). It may indeed get him elected but that, as said above, just lets him in for the same world of trouble anyone would've faced during those years.
Great one-on-one speaker, terribly wooden campaigner. That did him in in '76 as much as his being to the right of many Republicans on the Cold War even though he was an economic New Dealer (also if he'd stayed in longer anyone well to his left could shank him with his rather distasteful anti-Nisei past.) Good chance he's a 1980 Democrat's Secretary of Defense (you need Scoop campaigning for you in the Pacific Northwest, every electoral vote counts and he's a sop to the Cold Warriors still in the party) at least until his heart gives out, but his odds of nomination were marginal. The most likely, I think, 1980 Dems if Ford wins are Hugh Carey, Fritz Mondale, and Ed Muskie in that order, with outside shots for Jerry Brown if he could ever get his **** together on the presidential trail and Florida's Reubin Askew if he could win anything outside of the South (where he will do very well.) Although @spookyscaryskeletons did a great Reagan-in-'76 TL where Brendan Byrne, "The Man Who Couldn't Be Bought" from New Jersey, runs an insurgent campaign and wins. Don't discount that kind of Carterish out-of-the-box candidate.
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GeographyDude
Gone Fishin'
I think there's some case to be made that Nixon was Aspie. Meaning, he may have been on the Aspergers-Autism Spectrum.
I think much of this will hinge on whether or not he had sensory issues. For example, Al Haig said Nixon like to sometimes think and write with the light off. Did he have other sensory issues?
Some estimates are that 1 out of 85 persons are on the spectrum, some estimates more, including a fair number of famous persons. In fact, autism rights is kind of at the stage, you don't need to be famous in order to have the same rights and count and be treated with the same consideration and respect as everyone else.
In a sense, it doesn't matter. Yes, Dick Nixon was a creative, unique individual who marched to his own drummer. Maybe he was spectrum, and maybe he wasn't, and either way is just fine.
That's a very interesting case you make; I hadn't heard about the light sensitivity (the greatest pet peeve of my very-high-function Aspie nephew is bright direct lights, so you're spot on there.) Speaking from the comorbid depression-anxiety end of things, there are signs there that jump out at me too wrt Nixon (and rather like you I actually find them immensely humanizing about the man, he's not a cardboard villain, he made a hell of a lot of bad choices but he's much more richly human than a number of others on us Lefties' hit list), and one of the things of course you do (plural you, I include myself) is simply work around and adapt to who you are, rather than considering that there are issues with things like body chemistry that make your journey a bit different from someone who's wired not like yourself. I think much of Nixon's focus on his own toughness speaks to this, it was literally an eternal "positive self-talk" for him, not just from coming up from the poverty he did but because of his internal struggles (which as a white male Establishment dude of his times he of course could not admit, and anyway in terms of treatment we were barely into tricyclics for one end of the problem and good old sledgehammer Valium for the other), also noted in his idolization of men (like John Connally and Bebe Rebozo) for whom being effortlessly strong and resolute came naturally. But then a number of these things -- and like autism spectrum, the depression/anxiety nexus is a spectrum with points and filigrees all along it -- seem to be co-occurring, and do often correlate with both high intelligence and what used to more gracefully be called "lively minds." He put his to fell ends, but Nixon's mind was never less than lively.
Driftless
Donor
As I've aged and become more aware of my own imperfections , I have come to think of Nixon as a character out of a Greek tragedy. The guy had had way more ability than most of his contemporaries, but got brought down, mostly as a by-product of his own imperfections and insecurities. At the time, I viewed him as a thorough-going SOB trying to destroy the Republic; so for me nowadays, he's become admired for diplomatic breakthroughs with the Soviets and Chinese, pitied for what he might have been, as well as despised for the wrong-doing he did. A complex character, to be sure.
, I have come to think of Nixon as a character out of a Greek tragedy. The guy had had way more ability than most of his contemporaries, but got brought down, mostly as a by-product of his own imperfections and insecurities. At the time, I viewed him as a thorough-going SOB trying to destroy the Republic; so for me nowadays, he's become admired for diplomatic breakthroughs with the Soviets and Chinese, pitied for what he might have been, as well as despised for the wrong-doing he did. A complex character, to be sure.GeographyDude
Gone Fishin'
Yes, I think it's better to humanize Nixon, when possible.
I've also had my bouts with depression. I haven't yet tried antidepressants. But they are kind of my ace in the hole, and I'm very much warming to the idea if and when I have future bouts.
I've read that antidepressants are trial and error in a respectful sense, and also that it's highly recommended not to go cold turkey but to phase down in a series of steps. Is this generally what you've read, and perhaps even in line with your own experiences? It's of course a public forum, so please just share what you're comfortable sharing. Thanks.
GeographyDude
Gone Fishin'
https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=eM9dGr8ArR0
This is President Ford giving his reasons for the pardon to his fellow citizens on Sunday afternoon, Sept. 8, 1974.
Listen and decide for yourself.
=========
Here's a written transcript. The youtube video leaves off the greeting and the first paragraph, but otherwise seems very good.
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Yes, I think it's better to humanize Nixon, when possible.
I've also had my bouts with depression. I haven't yet tried antidepressants. But they are kind of my ace in the hole, and I'm very much warming to the idea if and when I have future bouts.
I've read that antidepressants are trial and error in a respectful sense, and also that it's highly recommended not to go cold turkey but to phase down in a series of steps. Is this generally what you've read, and perhaps even in line with your own experiences? It's of course a public forum, so please just share what you're comfortable sharing. Thanks.
Oh I'm fine saying at least a little. Rather like true love and ice cream, everyone has their own best flavor and it can take time and patience and effort to locate that. Sometimes it can even take just the wake-up call of changing horses in midstream; I can attest that being on a not-quite-right-but-sort-of can present its own problems that you don't even notice, because you take your state as a norm rather than examining whether it could be better (and I'm classed "atypical" so not or hugely rarely the pits of despair true classical or manic sufferers reach, but the sort of low-grade stuff that you can come to think is "just how things are" without appreciating that no, that's not really the case.) The key is finding a medical professional with whom you're entirely comfortable and who has an open, lateral mind about exploring the possibilities until that right match gets found. I've managed to do it and now for quite some time (even only has one real side effect which, surprise, is also treatable with pharmeceuticals so Better Living Through Chemistry! I feel so Fifties...
) Be prepared to take a journey in the discovering -- but also know, if you've got good insurance, that they can now do genetic testing to see which classes of drugs will do best with your own genetic make up for, say, serotonin reuptake or the complicated voodoo that tricyclics do, or norepinephrine boost like Wellbutrin -- but don't ever feel you have to settle.Now, to bring this all back around to the OP and keep it out of getting shunted to Chat, all of this is effectively an entirely different universe, cultural and conceptual, from the one in which Nixon came up. His own issues, whatever they may have been and I think we have at least a sense of the spectrum in which he was operating (and that's not even getting into questions about whether he was also a repressed bisexual when it comes to things like his relationship with Rebozo -- certainly the openly gay Gore Vidal played with that issue with the Nixon-based character in his political-convention drama The Best Man (Cliff Robertson plays him in the movie, against Henry Fonda's Adlai Stevenson-surrogate) ) what you were expected to rely on was your own bloody-minded toughness, and indeed Nixon may have been led down some of his darker paths quite literally to prove himself to himself, to show that he "had what it takes," that he could "go all the way" no matter the hidden turmoil and strangeness inside.
Thanks very much for putting up the Ford video. We are, even though the volume of it's overwhelming, gifted by the visual age, in that we can just go directly to YouTube and such and find these sources readily available, to make judgments with our own eyes.
GeographyDude
Gone Fishin'
I think only one out of three doctors is that open-minded professional with a sense of patience. Some doctors think I talk too much, in spite of what they say about wanting a complete history. I've had some success just taking in half a piece of paper and writing down the three most important things. Just a short sentence, or even just a phrase for each, one, two, three, just like that.. . . The key is finding a medical professional with whom you're entirely comfortable and who has an open, lateral mind about exploring the possibilities until that right match gets found. I've managed to do it and now for quite some time (even only has one real side effect which, surprise, is also treatable with pharmeceuticals so Better Living Through Chemistry! I feel so Fifties...
Now, to bring this all back around to the OP and keep it out of getting shunted to Chat, all of this is effectively an entirely different universe, cultural and conceptual, from the one in which Nixon came up. His own issues, whatever they may have been and I think we have at least a sense of the spectrum in which he was operating (and that's not even getting into questions about whether he was also a repressed bisexual when it comes to things like his relationship with Rebozo -- certainly the openly gay Gore Vidal played with that issue with the Nixon-based character in his political-convention drama The Best Man (Cliff Robertson plays him in the movie, against Henry Fonda's Adlai Stevenson-surrogate) ) what you were expected to rely on was your own bloody-minded toughness, and indeed Nixon may have been led down some of his darker paths quite literally to prove himself to himself, to show that he "had what it takes," that he could "go all the way" no matter the hidden turmoil and strangeness inside. . .
I haven't had the best of luck with so-called mental health professionals, as you might expect with someone who's most probably spectrum growing up in the 1970s. I do want people to realize they have a choice, for either a psychiatrist or a 'regular' doctor like an internist can prescribe something like zoloft or wellbutrin. Although that genetic testing you speak of which can tell which class of drugs a person will more likely to respond to, may change things is this regard, or not.
I do agree that Dick Nixon worshipped at the church of "toughness." Yes, things most probably were more difficult for him than for Bebe Rebozo or John Connally. All the same, I'm sure John Connally had his life struggles, too. Dick at the very least underestimated this. Glad you liked the youtube video. Sorry about the crappy quality. The 9 minute version seems to get it all except for the very beginning.
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GeographyDude
Gone Fishin'
And it's garbled.
President Ford's explanation to the American public for why he is pardoning Nixon is garbled.
(see also beginning 4:03 in video)
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If Ford didn't pardon Nixon, he could say, "I'm making sure that Nixon is held accountable for his crimes. The law is the same
for everyone, even the President." This would help public perception of Ford.
for everyone, even the President." This would help public perception of Ford.
I have a few questions about Nixon's fate without the pardon.
1. What was the expected timeframe for an indictment? Would Nixon have been indicted at the same time as his coconspirators or would the prosecution have waited to develop a stronger case against Nixon in light of who Nixon was?
2. What counts can we expect the prosecution to bring against Nixon?
3. When would the trial of Richard Nixon have taken place?
4. Presuming the prosecution can convict Nixon what kind of sentence would Nixon have received?
5. I once read here that during the period where Nixon being convicted of a crime seemed possible there was a plan to have him serve out his sentence on a military base essentially under house arrest rather than sending him to a traditional prison. Would that kind of sentence cause public outcry? Would the public care that Nixon is serving his sentence at an air force base somewhere rather than in the same prison as the coconspirators?
6.Presumably Nixon would still try to rehabilitate his image here and attempt to reinvent himself as a trusted foreign policy expert. Would a trial and conviction keep him from doing so successfully?
1. What was the expected timeframe for an indictment? Would Nixon have been indicted at the same time as his coconspirators or would the prosecution have waited to develop a stronger case against Nixon in light of who Nixon was?
2. What counts can we expect the prosecution to bring against Nixon?
3. When would the trial of Richard Nixon have taken place?
4. Presuming the prosecution can convict Nixon what kind of sentence would Nixon have received?
5. I once read here that during the period where Nixon being convicted of a crime seemed possible there was a plan to have him serve out his sentence on a military base essentially under house arrest rather than sending him to a traditional prison. Would that kind of sentence cause public outcry? Would the public care that Nixon is serving his sentence at an air force base somewhere rather than in the same prison as the coconspirators?
6.Presumably Nixon would still try to rehabilitate his image here and attempt to reinvent himself as a trusted foreign policy expert. Would a trial and conviction keep him from doing so successfully?