WI: No Obama, Hillary 2008

(note -- please move to ASB?)

Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are persuaded by alien space bats not to pursue the presidency.

The OTL field remains: Christopher Dodd, Tom Vilsack, Joe Biden, John Edwards, Bill Richardson, Dennis Kucinich, Evan Bayh, and co. still run.

Does anyone who didn't enter OTL decide to enter since the field involves no big names, such as Al Gore, John F. Kerry, Russ Feingold, Dick Gephardt or Tom Daschle? Does Edwards manage to snatch the nomination - and lose the election after his affair surfaces? Or do one of the other candidates manage to rush ahead with new momentum, no longer competing with Obama and Hillary?

All of this is also assuming the Republican field goes rather OTL, although Palin is potentially butterflied away.
 
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Gore or Feingold. Probably Gore, but it'd be close. Gore would then of course become an exact electoral parallel of Nixon.
 
Keyes winning that Senate seat is ASB.

The better option:
The leak of Jack Ryan's divorce papers is traced to Obama, as is the use of some personal info against a Democratic primary opponent. In both cases sealed court records got out to the media.

Obama, scandal-ridden, still wins, but only by a 53-47 margin against former Bears coach Mike Ditka.
 
Edwards gets the nomination, and then, self-immolates just in time to ensure McCain's victory.

Maybe, maybe, maybe McCain chooses a likable strong centrist as VP.
 
Why is no one playing the angle of Jack Ryan's divorce just not happening or the details not coming out? We don't have to jump through hoops. It's that simple.

Short of Obama running, Hillary wins. I cannot see the idea of her not based on the country not being ready. This is the same 2008. Just without Obama.
 
I'll admit it - my setup is absolutely shoddy. There's nothing short of death to keep Hillary from running and in my opinion, Obama had that Senate race in the bag, Ryan, Keyes or otherwise. It's practically ASB and perhaps it's logical to move it there.

The overall point is about what happens without them, however, more so than how they're knocked out.
 
I remember that in 2004 the opinion was that Ryan would give Obama a race in the Senate campaign. Could have Ryan won if his Divorce wasn't made public in a messy way? Yes. Is it likely? No.

However, against Ryan, Obama is in a real race which requires his full attention as opposed to becoming a national political player. He still would be one after becoming a Senator, but I don't think he would be enough of a one to run in 2008.

Unless Gore gets in, Clinton wins the nomination in 2008. If Gore does get in, it could go either way, but my money would be on Clinton, not sure who she picks as VP. She runs against McCain, I suspect he still picks Palin as his VP. I think the states of Virginia, North Carolina, Florida and Indiana go Republican instead of Democrat. That would keep Clinton under 300 electoral votes, but she still wins.

As to how her administration goes during the First Term, I suspect she would do a better job concerning Congressional relations, having endured the 1994 GOP landslide. As to 2012, I don't know. I have have to ponder on that for awhile.
 
Obama had that Senate race in the bag, Ryan, Keyes or otherwise. It's practically ASB and perhaps it's logical to move it there.
Oh, his win was nearly inevitable. But a stronger candidate than Keyes could have forced Obama to concentrate more on his own race and less on other Democrats', thus weakening his profile and appeal and delaying a presidential run.
 
Changed the POD. Now it's an ASB so we don't have to keep bringing up Clinton and Obama. I'm fine if a mod moves it.
 
Why is no one playing the angle of Jack Ryan's divorce just not happening or the details not coming out? We don't have to jump through hoops. It's that simple.

Short of Obama running, Hillary wins. I cannot see the idea of her not based on the country not being ready. This is the same 2008. Just without Obama.


I keep thinking of Jack Ryan [spoiler alert] becoming president after the end of the America versus Japan Rematch novel.
 
Al Gore jumps in for sure, especially after the Edwards affair is made public. I'd imagine he wins the nomination pretty handily and taps Obama as his VP. An Al Gore nomination in 2008 might tip McCain to select Joe Lieberman as his veep as nearly happened in OTL, as Lieberman would have valuable insight/political ammo against the Gore campaign. Gore/Obama vs. McCain/Lieberman? Now THAT's an election.
 
Short answer: total chaos.

Long answer:

No Obama or Hillary means that you're looking at a field in 2007 that shapes up like this --

Frontrunner: John Edwards ('04 VP nominee, NC Senator, no scandals at this time)

Institutional Candidates: Bill Richardson (strong ties to the Clintons, former DNC chair, strong resume), Joe Biden, Chris Dodd

Fringe lefty candidates: Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel

From a strategic campaign perspective, you're missing (1) an African-American candidate, and (2) a candidate running to the right of everyone else. So my guess is that someone like Al Sharpton probably runs again to meet #1, and possibly someone like Evan Bayh runs to fill the DLC slot.

----

So that's where we are in January of 2008 ITTL.

Edwards probably engages in the same strategy that got him second place and 30% of the vote in Iowa IOTL 2008: living in Iowa and running to the left.

IOTL, Obama won Iowa with 38%, and Clinton (narrowly) finished in third with 29%. Edwards was hurt late by the Des Moines Register's influential endorsement going to Obama.

ITTL, there isn't a viable left-of-center candidate for the Register to endorse, and it's hard to see them picking the conservative Bayh despite their misgivings over Edwards. So I imagine Edwards picks up a (lukewarm) endorsement which amounts to at least the 30% he won IOTL, plus an initial two-thirds of OTL's Obama voters, plus a third of OTL's Clinton voters.

Why? At the time, most Clinton supporters in Iowa were looking for the most conservative candidate, but some were liberal women who would probably go to Edwards. Similarly, most Obama voters were looking for the most viable liberal candidate, but some were just anti-Edwards. The Iowa primary electorate is very white -- Sharpton got 0% in 2004 -- so I think only giving Edwards 2/3 of the Obama vote is pretty conservative.

That gives you Edwards with something like 60-65%.

Given Iowa's viability threshhold, virtually all of the remaining voters probably go to Bayh. IOTL, Richardson got 2% and Biden 1%; that's probably something like what you'd see here. So call it: Edwards 60, Bayh 35, Richardson 2, Biden 2, Sharpton 1.

That makes it an Edwards vs. Bayh race in New Hampshire, which is a strong Clinton state but not a particularly conservative Democratic electorate. Moreover, because there's a contested Republican primary going on at the same time, you're unlikely to have a large crossover voter effect.

Edwards got 17% in NH IOTL; Obama got 36%, and Hillary won with 39%. Using the same breakdown as in Iowa gives you something like Edwards 55, Bayh 40, Richardson 5.

The race is now declared over by the press, but even if Bayh soldiers on, he's going to lose Nevada and South Carolina pretty decisively. (Bayh might win the disputed Michigan primary, which both Edwards and Obama boycotted IOTL, but I doubt he has the institutional support Clinton had to get those delegates actually seated). By January 26, Edwards will have gone 4-for-4 with more than 50% of the vote in all the contests that actually matter.

By this time IOTL, Biden, Dodd, Kucinich and Richardson had all dropped out; I see no reason to change that ITTL.

Now suppose the affair comes out early -- very early -- ITTL; sometime after the South Carolina primary but before Super Tuesday. You'd be left with a damaged front-runner (Edwards), an unpalatable challenger tagged with the 'loser' label (Bayh), and no real second-tier institutional candidate left as an alternative.

Edwards, of course, will stonewall, deny and obfuscate just as IOTL. Most of his supporters aren't going to jump ship right away.

Without Edwards' cooperation, it would be very difficult for a candidate to jump in at this point; he or she is going to miss the ballot deadline for most of the states with primaries or caucuses in March. But let's say it's Gore.

Bayh probably wins a few conservative states on Super Tuesday: Arizona, Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Utah. Maybe Al Sharpton is able to eke out a narrow Louisiana. And, I suppose, without Obama's caucus-organizing strategy, you might see Bayh prevail in North Dakota and Nebraska.

With all that, Edwards is still going to rack up huge numbers of delegates in California, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New York, and New Jersey.

Here's what that means, in practical terms. By Super Tuesday, 2,129 delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention will have been selected on the basis of primary and caucus results. A candidate needs a majority of all delegates (including superdelegates) to win the nomination. That's 2,117.

My somewhat-more-than-back-of-the-envelope figures show that, by February 5, 2008, Edwards is going to have a minimum of 1,600 pledged, hard, hand-picked delegates to the convention. Bayh will have the remaining 500.

That leaves just 1,124 pledged delegates to be won in subsequent primaries and caucuses, plus another 850 superdelegates, plus the DNC rules committee could restore up to 313 disputed delegates from Michigan and Florida (which violated the rules); IOTL, they restored 184 of those delegates.

I don't see how those numbers gets any candidate to the magic 50.1% threshhold. If Gore gets in, gets on every ballot and runs the table -- something I am not remotely convinced he could actually do, mind you -- you're still talking about him picking up something like 800 of the remaining 1,124 pledged delegates. Even if you give Gore all 850 superdelegates, he's still going to be way short.

On the flip side: Edwards probably can't stall and hold off the impending death of his campaign long enough to get 500 more pledged delegates, and obviously he isn't going to win any superdelegates once his campaign is perceived as dead in the water.

That means Bayh gets first crack and playing kingmaker, here. The problem is that I don't think he wants the Vice Presidency. He was pretty clearly in the picture in both 2004 and 2008, and everything I've read suggests that he took himself out of the running. Also, it should go without saying that Bayh is going to be seriously pissed that the Democratic Party operatives recruited Gore to run against him rather than let him get the nomination.

So yes: if Bayh cedes his delegates to Gore, Gore can probably stop Edwards. But I don't know that Bayh is willing to do that.

Whatever happens, you're looking at a brokered convention. And maybe that's enough to send the eventual nominee down to defeat even in a Democratic wave year.
 
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