WI: no alphabet

[Otto Kretschmer]

Seems, that inherent vowel is not needed, as Lao script does not have one, but is still considered to be abugida.

So if vowel diacritics are obligatory instead of optional, is that enough to make script abugida instead of abjad?

Yes. In abugida vowels are mandatory but marked by modifying consonant letters.

In abjad by contrast vowels are either unmarked or marked by dots/slashes around letters. This is not the same as an abugida. Arabic harakat and Hebrew niqqud are not modifiied letters.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Yes. In abugida vowels are mandatory but marked by modifying consonant letters.

In abjad by contrast vowels are either unmarked or marked by dots/slashes around letters. This is not the same as an abugida. Arabic harakat and Hebrew niqqud are not modifiied letters.

Still, diacritics in abugidas don't need to be attached to a letter, in practice they may not look that different from these used by abjads.

 

[Otto Kretschmer]

Still, diacritics in abugidas don't need to be attached to a letter, in practice they may not look that different from these used by abjads.

In abjads vowel marking is partial or optional. Like, Harakat and Niqqud are both only used in religious texts and in books for children and language learners. Arabic normally only indicates 3 out of 6 vowels and each vowel letter is also used for a consonant. In Hebrew also not all vowels are written. To give you an example in Hebrew David is written as Dod/Dud, Israel as Isral and Shalom as Shlom.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

In abjads vowel marking is partial or optional. Like, Harakat and Niqqud are both only used in religious texts and in books for children and language learners. Arabic normally only indicates 3 out of 6 vowels and each vowel letter is also used for a consonant. In Hebrew also not all vowels are written. To give you an example in Hebrew David is written as Dod/Dud, Israel as Isral and Shalom as Shlom.

Zarphatic/Judeo-French used extensively Tiberian vocalization (unlike other European Jewish languages, like Yiddish or Ladino, which used Hebrew script as full alphabet). As it is hard to imagine reading French without vowels, perhaps Zarphatic was borderline between abjad and abugida, with vowels always marked?.

 

[Analytical Engine]

I wonder if there could be abugida without inherent vowel? Say, that inherent vowel is schwa, and that schwa is eventually lost due to phonetic changes. Is it still abugida if basic form of letter denotes consonant without vowel now?

As mentioned above, you can mark the consonant in such a way as to say "there is no following vowel".

 

[Otto Kretschmer]

Like i said in abugidas vowel marking is mandatory except done with modifying existing letters rather than adding new ones like in alphabets. In abjads vowel marking is partial usually.

 

[Jan Olbracht]

Thus Hebrew script could switch from abjad to abugida just by making writing of Niqqud compulsory, without any other changes?

 

[Otto Kretschmer]

Thus Hebrew script could switch from abjad to abugida just by making writing of Harakad and Niqqud compulsory, without any other changes?

yes

PS Arabic has harakat. Hebrew has Niqqud

 

[fraa Jad]

Latin writing did not consistently distinguish vowels either, most notably vowel length. However the complete disregard of vowel length was less widespread than commonly assumed. In monumental inscriptions diacritics marking vowel length are not that rare.

 

[Boon84]

At the risk of trying to answer the original question:

Cyprus script?
Runes?
Ogham?
Danubian symbols?

It seems writing isn't something that takes a huge amount of imagination to invent. So I think that something else would spring up, though it would look rather different.

 

[fraa Jad]

Historical evidence suggests that writing has been invented independently _at most_ on four different occasions: Egypt, Mesopotamia, The Yellow river basin, and the Yucatan peninsula. This, of course has nothing to do with alphabets, which are a much more recent development.